Some Facts about penalties, the Cowboys, and their opponents

[Mac_MaloneV1]

How about just not throw the flags in the first place rather than draw attention to yourselves by throwing and picking up 3 for the same team? The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. I say this for the NFL 'spiracy people too. Why leave things to chance with ref crews when the best one to rig a game for you is the QB. Get to him and you get all the results you could possibly want without waiting for the semblance of a penalty to come up in a game. Less things left to chance. But no one wants to go there for some reason. Proof the 'spiracy bunch make that spit up to have an excuse.

What?

Your argument is that because nobody is out there giving Pat Mahomes the Tonya Harding treatment there's no "conspiracy?" What a stupid point.

 

[Hoods]

Hopefully facts can shed some light.

If Team A is flagged once in a game for a false start (5 yards) (after roughing up the opponent's receivers all game), and Team B is flagged for a defensive PI on 4th down on 1 yard line (so < 1 yard) on the last play of the game and on a tick tacky call, the only stats available to us and without diving into the context would suggest Team A got it harder. I'm sorry but this analysis is lazy and debunks nothing.

 

[RonnieT24]

How can you say both of those things?

In the context of a game, drive-killing penalties make the latter impossible, epecially when they're ticky tack and subjective.

Using the Buffalo game as reference: how is a team supposed to overcome a ref giving Buffalo 4 points and then taking at least 3 off the board? The idea of overcoming that is saying "win a road game in the rain by 8 points in 3 quarters." That's a standard no team can meet.

This has always been my stance. You can't beat the refs no matter how hard you try. If they want you to lost you WILL lose. The only thing in question is whether they want you to lose or not.

 

[Diehardblues]

No we didn't. The league didn't begin to tilt the games against us until the 1995 lawsuits over sponsorship deals. Up to that point things were mostly fair.. We only got jobbed in the '78 Super Bowl against the Steelers and one the QB sneak in the Ice Bowl before that. Maybe the Deion no-PI call in the 1994 NFC Championship. So basically every 10-15 years. Now it's every other game.. Or if you're Micah Parsons it's every other snap.

When the “ league begin to tilt the games against us. “

What a paranoid load of crap.

 

[Diehardblues]

This has always been my stance. You can't beat the refs no matter how hard you try. If they want you to lost you WILL lose. The only thing in question is whether they want you to lose or not.

So , all of our games since at least 1995 when the league begun tilting games against us are purely in the hands of officials whether they want us to lose or not.

This gets better and better. By far most bizarre take thus far on this issue. I have so many questions.

Are the Cowboys the only team the league tilts towards? Who directs this tilt? The owners, Commish or the officials acting on their own. I can’t wait to hear all the details.

 

[Bobhaze]

If Team A is flagged once in a game for a false start (5 yards) (after roughing up the opponent's receivers all game), and Team B is flagged for a defensive PI on 4th down on 1 yard line (so < 1 yard) on the last play of the game and on a tick tacky call, the only stats available to us and without diving into the context would suggest Team A got it harder. I'm sorry but this analysis is lazy and debunks nothing.

I was simply reporting the numbers. Those are facts but as many have stated very well here, the numbers do lack context. But that context goes both ways. If we want to be fair, context should also include when opponents get flagged and when.

Often our emotions as fans blind us to being able to see how the other team occasionally gets screwed too with a bad call or untimely flag. Remember the Seahawks game? They had at least 3 penalties go against them on 3rd or 4th down that cost them potential points and was very much in our benefit. We had a 75 yard drive in the 3rd vs the hawks that was aided by 3 penalties on them. In one drive.

For sure Parsons has been getting screwed on some holding calls and it’s just bad officiating . But all the great ones tend to not get calls. Watch an Aaron Donald game. When we played the rams this year he was held multiple times and it wasn’t called. Watch a Myles Garrett game. Gets held a ton. I’m not arguing Parsons isn’t being held, just saying the refs are bad for a lot of great players.

 

[RonnieT24]

So , all of our games since at least 1995 when the league begun tilting games against us are purely in the hands of officials whether they want us to lose or not.

This gets better and better. By far most bizarre take thus far on this issue. I have so many questions.

Are the Cowboys the only team the league tilts towards? Who directs this tilt? The owners, Commish or the officials acting on their own. I can’t wait to hear all the details.

No they are not.. The league does the same thing to the Raiders.. owing to the lawsuits around moving back and forth between L.A. and Oakland. Davis took the league to court both times when the league tried to block the moves and he won. Coincidentally the Raiders have not won jack ON THE FIELD since and have been on the receiving end of one of the great screw jobs in NFL history with the "Tuck Rule" call. That one was even worse than the Dez no-catch because it WOULD have won the game for the Raiders. There was no time left and they were ahead. The tuck ruling allowed the Pats to kick the game tying FG and then subsequently win the game in OT. Of course some people will cling to the notion that this is all happenstance. I am not such a person.

 

[Diehardblues]

No they are not.. The league does the same thing to the Raiders.. owing to the lawsuits around moving back and forth between L.A. and Oakland. Davis took the league to court both times when the league tried to block the moves and he won. Coincidentally the Raiders have not won jack ON THE FIELD since and have been on the receiving end of one of the great screw jobs in NFL history with the "Tuck Rule" call. That one was even worse than the Dez no-catch because it WOULD have won the game for the Raiders. There was no time left and they were ahead. The tuck ruling allowed the Pats to kick the game tying FG and then subsequently win the game in OT. Of course some people will cling to the notion that this is all happenstance. I am not such a person.

So that’s it. Just the Cowboys and Raiders the league is tilting against?

And who spearheads this tilted officiating? The Commish, owners or officials collectively take it on their own?

 

[Galway]

There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.

• The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
• Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
• The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
• The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.

Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/

Fair point. However these are aggregate numbers, I think the issue is we face penalties or get no calls during high leverage points in games. I would like to see holding and DPOY in games we lost.

 

[Brax]

There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.

• The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
• Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
• The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
• The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.

Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/

How dare you present facts, good post happy new year

 

[MarcusRock]

What?

Your argument is that because nobody is out there giving Pat Mahomes the Tonya Harding treatment there's no "conspiracy?" What a stupid point.

You have a really dark mind, bro. Now it makes me extra curious about your primary caretakers once you were brought home from the hospital. Lol.

When I say "get to" I wasn't talking mob boss "get to," I meant making them offers to throw/influence games. It's one guy to work with rather than roving 7-ref crews who have to wait for circumstances to happen to do any dirty work. Shortest distance. No one wants to explore that because they just can't believe that their team's heroes are out there doing clandestine things yet foist those accusations on refs trying to do the best they can with super fast men running circles around them. People talk up and down about how large sums of money makes the league do dastardly things to keep raking it in yet exempt players from that except to call them greedy when they want a new contract. But that means players want to keep raking it in too, no? It's a Hugh Jass disconnect, and as I said, it proves they make up the "enemy refs" BS to soften the blow when rival fan friends talk about what a punk team we are. My 'spiracy take is based on logic whereas the "enemy refs" stuff involves seeing inside a bunch of people's heads. It's scattershooting, again to find "something" to lessen a shot to the ego of supporting a team that "just can't."

So you see, I can actually 'spiracy better than the 'spiracyest 'spirator 'round these parts. Logic. People need to get some. Lol.

 

[DogFace]

Bravo. Prepare yourself for the mental gymnastics.

Right. Like looking at more than this year.

5 of the 25 no penalty games Cowboys defying math see that team.
Fake huddle
Long snapper loses game with “penalty”
Delay of game on D-law for “shifting too much”
Long periods of no holds-which we are seeing again against the leagues best player

There’s many more and there’s a pattern. Haters are real. Jealously is real. The Cowboys, whether is deserved or not, are covered nationally far more than other teams.
This breeds contempt. NFL refs don’t want to show favoritism like the coverage attention does. So they overcompensate—likely subconsciously.

 

[MarcusRock]

Speaking of penalties, @Bobhaze what happened to that "10 missed holding calls in the Dolphins game" thread? I commented on them all and there were actually only 3 legit ones and a few laughable ones that proved people don't know what in Hades they're looking at. I did good work in there. Lol.

 

[Runwildboys]

Missed to maNY???? ….NONE in the last 10 games. YOU ARE BLINDER THAN A BAT~!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH OF THE ENBABLING!!!!!!

It's always nice to see someone with his emotions in check.

 

[BoysForLife]

It's always nice to see someone with his emotions in check.

anytime you manage to work about 20 exclamation points into 3 sentences you know you're running hot.

 

[Runwildboys]

Bob, I think you are confusing the number of penalties versus the timing of the penalties.

An official could throw or not throw a flag on a single play that changes the outcome of a game.

Beyond that, penalties hurt teams the most on third downs (on either side), so that would be a good starting point.

Yes, and when those penalties happen in our favor, you read posts here like, "This offense got lucky again!" But when the penalties hurt us, it's "The refs are so biased against Dallas!"

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.

• The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
• Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
• The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
• The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.

Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/

It's obvious that they try to even out the calls but since when do teams perfectly mirror execution level?

 

[DripTooHard]

Yep

Overcoming a bad call is like overcoming a bad play or turnover. The great teams don’t make excuses.

Still the odds are stacked against the Cowboys through artificial forces.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Only conspiracy, if you want to call it a conspiracy, is I'm sure the NFL doesn't pursue a lot of this because they don't want the game to turn into a penalty fest. NBA had some problems with this. I don't blame the NFL for not wanting to stop play every down. The worst games are the heavy penalty games when everything is being called and no one can get physical or the momentum.

To those who want EVERYTHING called, be careful what you wish for....

It’s not for wanting everything called. It’s understanding that calls will be flat-out missed, or because it’s subjective, not called consistently.

Those arguing about the timing/situation of when flags are thrown are actually the ones being disingenuous. Why? Because ifyou don’t want flags thrown in certain game situations you cannot lament when a flag isn’t thrown in what’s perceived to a critical or game changing situation.

Folks acting like they’d be OK with that would be the same ones crying on the threads as they do now after games.

What this all boils down to when you remove the conspiracy nonsense and appeals to ref bias is people are tired of crappy refereeing, to which we all can agree.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Right. Like looking at more than this year.

5 of the 25 no penalty games Cowboys defying math see that team.
Fake huddle
Long snapper loses game with “penalty”
Delay of game on D-law for “shifting too much”
Long periods of no holds-which we are seeing again against the leagues best player

There’s many more and there’s a pattern. Haters are real. Jealously is real. The Cowboys, whether is deserved or not, are covered nationally far more than other teams.
This breeds contempt. NFL refs don’t want to show favoritism like the coverage attention does. So they overcompensate—likely subconsciously.

I don't think the cowboys are the center of the universe you think they are. Most fans don't give a crap about the Cowboys, even if by and large they root against them.