Some more Petitti info

MapleLeaf

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...unlike last year we now have a option who has played in the NFL and we also have a young incumbent who seem to have improved in terms of the offseason metrics.

No one is certain of where we are on the field yet, but on paper it seems to be an improvement from last year.

Once again you can't fix everything, but you need to attempt to find options that are serviceable.
 

Bob Sacamano

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MichaelWinicki said:
Exactly.

And I think the kid can keep his job. ;)

I'm sure we'll get some conspiratoristic board members to come up with, "Well Petitti is starting only cos Pittdawg posts on ths Zone". ;)

how about this one, he's starting because Bill will die before he sees him fail? ;)
 

big dog cowboy

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like a dog said:
Rob Pettiti was the worst starting tackle in the NFL last year. And now, all of a sudden he is the long term answer at RT. Based on what? Biased local media reporting that he looks "lighter on his feet"? He didn't look too light on his feet when Bryce Fischer was throwing him around like a rag doll.

RT is the biggest weakness for the Dallas Cowboys.
Been asleep since the season ended?
 

junk

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Rack said:
Not necessarily. Petitti could end up winning the RT spot for the same reason he won it last year (or similiar reasons).


The ideal situation would be for whoever does win the RT job, wins it cuz they did better then the other candidates, not cuz the other candidates did worse.

That doesn't make much sense.

The best long term situation for the team is for Petitti to outperform the other candidates in camp. That is all I am trying to say.

Bringing up some nonsense about some other candidates doing worse doesn't even make much sense. If Petitti beats out Fabini because he "did worse" (whatever that means), isn't that still the best option for the team?
 

like a dog

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big dog cowboy said:
Been asleep since the season ended?

No. I come here pretty much everyday to see if there is anything new going on in Cowboys land. Though a majority of what people write on this board (including what I am about to write) is ultimately meaningless opinion with no real insight in it, this board is still serves as an excellent synthesis of Cowboys news and articles from disparate sources.

To address the connotation of your little one-liner, perhaps I am a little outspoken about Pettiti. But in my admitedly short time watching the NFL (started watching seriously when I was seven, which is fourteen years ago now) I cannot remember seeing a more consistently overmatched offensive lineman in the NFL then Rob Pettiti. I think a lot of invalid excuses are made for him primarily because his father posts on this board. For example, it is constantly pointed out that he was a sixth round picks, but off the top of my head I can name a litany of players who excelled as rookies after being second day picks. Shane Olivea, Dan Koppen, etc. I guess it just bugs me that people are constantly making excuses for a player who was the single largest reason that the Cowboys season went in the tank over the second half of the season.
 

5Stars

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like a dog said:
No. I come here pretty much everyday to see if there is anything new going on in Cowboys land. Though a majority of what people write on this board (including what I am about to write) is ultimately meaningless opinion with no real insight in it, this board is still serves as an excellent synthesis of Cowboys news and articles from disparate sources.

To address the connotation of your little one-liner, perhaps I am a little outspoken about Pettiti. But in my admitedly short time watching the NFL (started watching seriously when I was seven, which is fourteen years ago now) I cannot remember seeing a more consistently overmatched offensive lineman in the NFL then Rob Pettiti. I think a lot of invalid excuses are made for him primarily because his father posts on this board. For example, it is constantly pointed out that he was a sixth round picks, but off the top of my head I can name a litany of players who excelled as rookies after being second day picks. Shane Olivea, Dan Koppen, etc. I guess it just bugs me that people are constantly making excuses for a player who was the single largest reason that the Cowboys season went in the tank over the second half of the season.

You have to remember, Rob had to lose alot of weight before training camp. Losing weight that fast and trying to build muscle at the same time takes it's toll on a person. He then starts the whole season...and got thrown around, but, he was serviceable and could be counted on to be there every game, hurt or not...

This year, he had time to build muscle, and ponder exactely what he need to work on because of his full year of experience in the fire...

I think, Rob is going to be a good one...for a long time!

:star:
 

Mansta54

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5Stars said:
You have to remember, Rob had to lose alot of weight before training camp. Losing weight that fast and trying to build muscle at the same time takes it's toll on a person. He then starts the whole season...and got thrown around, but, he was serviceable and could be counted on to be there every game, hurt or not...

This year, he had time to build muscle, and ponder exactely what he need to work on because of his full year of experience in the fire...

I think, Rob is going to be a good one...for a long time!

:star:



I think so too. The kid is tuff and his mental outlook is outstanding. He was a rookie last year. He'll be a completely different player this season.
 

big dog cowboy

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like a dog said:
No. I come here pretty much everyday to see if there is anything new going on in Cowboys land. Though a majority of what people write on this board (including what I am about to write) is ultimately meaningless opinion with no real insight in it, this board is still serves as an excellent synthesis of Cowboys news and articles from disparate sources.

To address the connotation of your little one-liner, perhaps I am a little outspoken about Pettiti. But in my admitedly short time watching the NFL (started watching seriously when I was seven, which is fourteen years ago now) I cannot remember seeing a more consistently overmatched offensive lineman in the NFL then Rob Pettiti. I think a lot of invalid excuses are made for him primarily because his father posts on this board. For example, it is constantly pointed out that he was a sixth round picks, but off the top of my head I can name a litany of players who excelled as rookies after being second day picks. Shane Olivea, Dan Koppen, etc. I guess it just bugs me that people are constantly making excuses for a player who was the single largest reason that the Cowboys season went in the tank over the second half of the season.
I can promise you the fact his father posts in here from time to time has NOTHING to do with the way Petitti is spoken about. I don't believe he is a regular visitor just drops in from time to time. Go back in the archives and you will see the posts in here about Petitti didn't change any at all once he stopped in for the first time.

Petitti was overmatched last year. Then again, losing 40 pounds in 3 months and playing hurt would do that to most if not all players. I'm not making excuses, again facts are facts. He was drafted with the plan on learning the pro game, losing weight, getting stronger and becoming a factor in year two.

To say that Petitti was the single largest reason our season went in the tank last year is something many won't agree with. For starters, Tucker was worse than Petitti and that has been well documented. From what you said in your original post, you obviously disagree with that and that is OK. But facts are facts. TO say Petitti was the worse in the league when he wasn't even the worst on our own team is just stretching the truth some.

Additionally, anytime I see a kicker singlehandedly lose us at least 2 games is another great place to point a blaming finger.
 

NorTex

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I don't remember anyone complaining about Rob Petitti when we were 7-3, last year...he simply wore down over the course of the season. Injuries were a big part of his poor play at the end of the year.
 

Teague31

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the jury is still out on whether or not rob is the long term answer at RT. however, there is no doubt that he will be greatly improved his second year in the league, second year after the switch from LT, in better shape, etc., etc., etc. He won't ever be Big E but he is good enough for us to win a SB with him starting IMO.
 

burmafrd

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I think Petitti will be a solid if unspectacular tackle. Lunchpail type. Won't make the pro bowl but will start for years.
 

baj1dallas

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like a dog said:
I cannot remember seeing a more consistently overmatched offensive lineman in the NFL then Rob Pettiti.

You must not be trying very hard because he wasn't even the worst lineman on his own team last year. That honor falls to Torrin Tucker.
 

5Stars

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burmafrd said:
I think Petitti will be a solid if unspectacular tackle. Lunchpail type. Won't make the pro bowl but will start for years.

Yeah...me too!

He will be just fine....

:star:
 

like a dog

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big dog cowboy said:
I can promise you the fact his father posts in here from time to time has NOTHING to do with the way Petitti is spoken about. I don't believe he is a regular visitor just drops in from time to time. Go back in the archives and you will see the posts in here about Petitti didn't change any at all once he stopped in for the first time.

Petitti was overmatched last year. Then again, losing 40 pounds in 3 months and playing hurt would do that to most if not all players. I'm not making excuses, again facts are facts. He was drafted with the plan on learning the pro game, losing weight, getting stronger and becoming a factor in year two.

To say that Petitti was the single largest reason our season went in the tank last year is something many won't agree with. For starters, Tucker was worse than Petitti and that has been well documented. From what you said in your original post, you obviously disagree with that and that is OK. But facts are facts. TO say Petitti was the worse in the league when he wasn't even the worst on our own team is just stretching the truth some.

Additionally, anytime I see a kicker singlehandedly lose us at least 2 games is another great place to point a blaming finger.

In professional sports there are two primary manners that players are evaluated. One is statistically and the other is qualitatively. To take the example of baseball, Billy Beane and the Oakland As are the champions of the statistical approach. Anybody who has read Moneyball knows the story of how Beane totally eschwed traditional scouting to build the Oakland As, a low market team, into a consistent contender through a player evaluation scheme based entirely upon the "new" baseball metrics. On the other hand, you have the Atlanta Braves, who are probably the classical example of the traditional "5-tools" approach to scouting. The Braves consistently draft players based primarily upon projected potential rather then production. In both cases the results were extremely succesful. However, because of Moneyball and the hype surrounding Beane there is an increasing movenment towards the statistical approach to player evaluation. This is exhibited by the recent advent of new player metrics applied to basketball and football.

However, these two sports are not defined by individual battles in the same way that baseball is. For example, the be all and end all of basketball metrics, the +/- ratio of when a player is on or off the floor, is dependent on so many factors outside of the individual players control that it is hardly comparable to OBP or slugging percentage (depending on their position in the lineup) for a baseball player.

Like any case of extremes, the truth probably lies somewhere in between a purely statistical and purely qualitative approach. It is true that Torrin Tucker allowed more sacks the Rob Pettiti. It is also true that Tucker, a college guard, playing left tackle, was thus consistently isolated against the other teams best pass rusher while Petitti, even after Flozell's injury, consistently got help from Witten or Campbell. It is also true that multiple times last season (e.g. the Seattle game) Parcells quoted RT at being the problem position along the offensive line, eventhough the "less effective" Torrin Tucker was on an island at LT. It is also true that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers made a lucrative restricted free agent offer to Torrin Tucker this past offseason. While Tucker did allow more sacks last season (despite this, his overall metrics are superior to Pettiti's), Pettiti is clearly the qualitatively inferior player. Go back and watch some tape of Pettiti. It's not only that he consistently was beat, in all facets of the game, it is the way that he gets beat. Thrown around like a rag doll by Bryce Fischer. Making Renaldo Wynn look like an All-Pro in the second Washington game. Etc.

If Rob Pettiti becomes a consistent NFL RT, I will be happy to eat crow. However, based upon my admitedly limited experience, there is simply no way that I see that happening.
 

burmafrd

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Trying to cherry pick things to prove your point is an old tactic.
It is good that you admit your limited experience.
Lucrative contract- now that is funny. NO OTHER TEAM was interested. WHAT does that tell you?
Tucker was not always facing the best pass rushers- if you had bothered to check things (clearly you did not) Petitti was facing Strahan, Osi and other top sack artists at least PART of the time. You see, teams move around their top sack guys a lot- side to side, etc. You would know this if you had more experience.
 

like a dog

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burmafrd said:
Trying to cherry pick things to prove your point is an old tactic.
It is good that you admit your limited experience.
Lucrative contract- now that is funny. NO OTHER TEAM was interested. WHAT does that tell you?
Tucker was not always facing the best pass rushers- if you had bothered to check things (clearly you did not) Petitti was facing Strahan, Osi and other top sack artists at least PART of the time. You see, teams move around their top sack guys a lot- side to side, etc. You would know this if you had more experience.

My admission to limited experience was in reference to people who actually do this for a living. It is blatantly obvious that I have far more knowledge and experience about the NFL then you.

Tucker had no other interested parties because he was a restricted free agent. Restricted free agents almost never receive qualifying offers from multiple teams. Tucker received a fairly lucrative offer from the Buccaneers and the Cowboys chose not to match.

It's true that some defensive ends are moved around the line, and sometimes stood up, to rush the passer from a variety of different positions. This is called a joker, a la Jevon Kearse. Your contention that the Giants use a similar tactic is simply false. Strahan, even after dropping weight before last season, is your classic elephant or strongside end and always lines up over the RT. Umenyiora is purely a RDE, not suited to taking on a double team like the the strongside end consistently has to, especially in the running game.

You have no ****ing idea what you are talking about.
 

big dog cowboy

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like a dog said:
Pettiti is clearly the qualitatively inferior player.
Considering the circumstances under which he played last year that statement means absolutely nothing. I think the exact opposite is true. He deserves far more credit than he is being given for what he accomplished last year. Was his play substandard? Yes. Is it fair to judge him based on his play last year as the type of player he will be this year? No. Will he better improved this year? Yes. Will he start in Jacksonville? Hell yes!
 

iceberg

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Alexander said:
We may have?

Based on what?

Until I see Petitti on the field, he will be what he was the last time I saw him.

you the same dude that yells at me when i say things like this? you know - "until the players show improvement, let's not just assume it cause it gives warm fuzzies???"
 
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