Some more Petitti info

J-DOG

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like a dog said:
Rob Pettiti was the worst starting tackle in the NFL last year. And now, all of a sudden he is the long term answer at RT. Based on what? Biased local media reporting that he looks "lighter on his feet"? He didn't look too light on his feet when Bryce Fischer was throwing him around like a rag doll.

RT is the biggest weakness for the Dallas Cowboys.
Our biased local media is the first ones to criticize. Not praise.
The local Dallas media, the DMN and Ft.Worth Star Telegram etc. always take a wait and see attitude before the praise comes our way.
Now the national media(CNNSI, Fox Sports,ESPN) will throw praise to us before anyone else and that has been the case this season.
CNNSI-Peter King has us winning it all I think.
Salisbury, Golic, Schlereth and even Hodge like us this season as well on ESPN.
But to get guys like Gosselin,JJT,Blackistone or Floyd and Galloway at the FW Star Telegram to predict good things for us is like pulling teeth.
If I hear one of the local newspapers saying good things about the team then I tend to put more credence into it then something I read on DallasCowboys.com.
 

dmq

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I will take the word of guys that have seen him playing. Its better to hear reports like this than stuff saying the guy is out of shape. Like LA last year.
 

like a dog

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JackMagist said:
I'd say that we May have fixed RT based on all of the things that burmafrd mentioned in his original post to start this thread. I have yet to see a player who did not improve from his rookie year with Parcells offseason program...it is one of the things that Parcells is very good at.

2004
Jacob Rogers
Stephan Peterman
Bruce Thorton
Sean Ryan

2005 (admitedly too early to tell... but still...)
Burnett
Beirlaut (not quite fair I know)

But really, four out of eight from one of his two drafts. Please think just a LITTLE bit before y'all post.
 

like a dog

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arglebargle said:
Almost categorically not the case. While he may or may not have the stuff to start this year, NFL players generally have their greatest improvements in their second year. Odds are better that he would get worse than be in exactly the same spot this year. Odds are still better that he will be better at his position. Doesn't mean he will beat out Fabini, but what evidence there is, is that he's worked on his weaknesses from last year.

And once training camp starts we'll get a better idea how trendy or clueless our speculation has been.....

This is another post that does not hold up to any sort of empirical observation. Second year? Are you sure that is true for all NFL players? Is there no difference between a quarterback and a runningback? Edgerrin James had 1500+ yards his rookie year. Steve McNair was a statistically average QB untill he blew up in the 2001 season, his seventh in the league. This sort of wild generalization rob your post of all credence. The generally accepted idea is that there are certain positions where there is a certain grace period (e.g. QB, WR, etc.) and others (RB, S... etc..) where almost instant gratification is expected.
 

like a dog

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J-DOG said:
If this is true, Pettiti has done basically everything they have asked to prepare himself to be a solid starter.
Even last year, the young guy lost the weight before training camp and showed the dedication to be a real pro.
Pettiti is at least showing the desire to be successful.
Whether he has the talent will only show on the field of play, but I like hearing these reports on a guy we drafted with a late draft pick.

Eminently reasonable post.
 

like a dog

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Yeagermeister said:
After being thrown to the wolves at a position he'd never played before I thought did an ok job. If he's improved his conditioning as much as been reported I think he will beat out Fabini.

Based on what? You're extensive experience as an NFL coach? How the **** would you know? Have you watched tape of Fabini over the last five years? Have you looked at the new lineman "metrics" for both players?

This is the sort of fluff that means NOTHING. Why do you bother posting this?
 

arglebargle

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like a dog said:
This is another post that does not hold up to any sort of empirical observation. Second year? Are you sure that is true for all NFL players? Is there no difference between a quarterback and a runningback? Edgerrin James had 1500+ yards his rookie year. Steve McNair was a statistically average QB untill he blew up in the 2001 season, his seventh in the league. This sort of wild generalization rob your post of all credence. The generally accepted idea is that there are certain positions where there is a certain grace period (e.g. QB, WR, etc.) and others (RB, S... etc..) where almost instant gratification is expected.

It is not a wild generalization: It is an accepted generalization. You hear this from 'football guys' all the time. Players who have had a chance to absorb the on-the-field experiance (even if on the sidelines or practice squad) and get an offseason worth of study and weight room and conditioning work, have the greatest gains in their career. Generally. Since not everyone is the same, no, not everyone gets the same rates of increase. Playing position and personal makeup affect all of this. Variation for some does not disprove the observaton.

I think you may be mistaking 'becoming a starting player' for 'gaining the most improvement'. In Pettiti's case what reports there are do back up the contention that he has learned a lot, has a better understanding of the game, and has improved his physical conditioning. This still may not get him the starting position, as Fabini seems to be well thought of by his old team.

And McNair may have had has biggest skill increase in his second year: It just took five more years of experiance before he finally 'blew up'. :explode:
 

burmafrd

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Dog. Check the stats and sacks and against who they got him. You will notice that virtually every team moves its players around. Go ahead- check.
 

junk

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like a dog said:
Based on what? You're extensive experience as an NFL coach? How the **** would you know? Have you watched tape of Fabini over the last five years? Have you looked at the new lineman "metrics" for both players?

This is the sort of fluff that means NOTHING. Why do you bother posting this?

:rolleyes: People can't post their opinion?

It'd be a pretty dull board if we only let the people that broke down tape of Fabini the last five years comment. "Metrics" only go so far in measuring a player. I highly doubt the Cowboys grading system is anywhere near what somebody like KC Joyner is doing. If you don't know the specific requirements of a play, gathering metrics as a fan doesn't do a bit of good. You're basically just guessing.

This whining fluff means NOTHING. I'd rather hear someone's opinion. Why did you bother posting a reply if the post was so worthless?
 

pittdawg

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like a dog said:
In professional sports there are two primary manners that players are evaluated. One is statistically and the other is qualitatively. To take the example of baseball, Billy Beane and the Oakland As are the champions of the statistical approach. Anybody who has read Moneyball knows the story of how Beane totally eschwed traditional scouting to build the Oakland As, a low market team, into a consistent contender through a player evaluation scheme based entirely upon the "new" baseball metrics. On the other hand, you have the Atlanta Braves, who are probably the classical example of the traditional "5-tools" approach to scouting. The Braves consistently draft players based primarily upon projected potential rather then production. In both cases the results were extremely succesful. However, because of Moneyball and the hype surrounding Beane there is an increasing movenment towards the statistical approach to player evaluation. This is exhibited by the recent advent of new player metrics applied to basketball and football.

However, these two sports are not defined by individual battles in the same way that baseball is. For example, the be all and end all of basketball metrics, the +/- ratio of when a player is on or off the floor, is dependent on so many factors outside of the individual players control that it is hardly comparable to OBP or slugging percentage (depending on their position in the lineup) for a baseball player.

Like any case of extremes, the truth probably lies somewhere in between a purely statistical and purely qualitative approach. It is true that Torrin Tucker allowed more sacks the Rob Pettiti. It is also true that Tucker, a college guard, playing left tackle, was thus consistently isolated against the other teams best pass rusher while Petitti, even after Flozell's injury, consistently got help from Witten or Campbell. It is also true that multiple times last season (e.g. the Seattle game) Parcells quoted RT at being the problem position along the offensive line, eventhough the "less effective" Torrin Tucker was on an island at LT. It is also true that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers made a lucrative restricted free agent offer to Torrin Tucker this past offseason. While Tucker did allow more sacks last season (despite this, his overall metrics are superior to Pettiti's), Pettiti is clearly the qualitatively inferior player. Go back and watch some tape of Pettiti. It's not only that he consistently was beat, in all facets of the game, it is the way that he gets beat. Thrown around like a rag doll by Bryce Fischer. Making Renaldo Wynn look like an All-Pro in the second Washington game. Etc.

If Rob Pettiti becomes a consistent NFL RT, I will be happy to eat crow. However, based upon my admitedly limited experience, there is simply no way that I see that happening.

normally i don't like getting invovled, but i believe you are flat out wrong in your assessment. first, after flo was injured, both tackles were receiving help about equally. also, not positve, i think rob faced the better d-ends down the stretch.

second, your example of the washington game is flat out wrong. i think the whole line played poorly, but rob played well in the first half only giving up one sack to wynn in the second half. i think that is the game tucker gave up for sacks to a relative unknown.

third, rob had a serious ankle injury that i believe could have kept him out of at least a couple of games. for whatever reason, the coaches chose to play him which i think contributed to his wearing down by seasons end. rob played every offensive play, four exibition games and didn't miss one practice in the regular season.

while i don't intend to offer this as an excuse, rob gave everything he had. whether this was enough or not he wasn't the only player to effect the outcome of the season. just look at the place kickers for an example.

as for if rob becomes a fixture at rt, time will tell. one thing that is indisputable, rob has not left one stone unturned and is taking nothing for granted concerning his future. he has worked extremely hard to be ready not only to continue his cowboy career, but to be in a position to help the team win. if there is a better option, then he will sit. one thing for sure, nothing said here by anyone will determine what happens to him this year. only his hard work and the decisions by the coaching staff will matter.
 

Longboysfan

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pittdawg said:
normally i don't like getting invovled, but i believe you are flat out wrong in your assessment. first, after flo was injured, both tackles were receiving help about equally. also, not positve, i think rob faced the better d-ends down the stretch.

second, your example of the washington game is flat out wrong. i think the whole line played poorly, but rob played well in the first half only giving up one sack to wynn in the second half. i think that is the game tucker gave up for sacks to a relative unknown.

third, rob had a serious ankle injury that i believe could have kept him out of at least a couple of games. for whatever reason, the coaches chose to play him which i think contributed to his wearing down by seasons end. rob played every offensive play, four exibition games and didn't miss one practice in the regular season.

while i don't intend to offer this as an excuse, rob gave everything he had. whether this was enough or not he wasn't the only player to effect the outcome of the season. just look at the place kickers for an example.

as for if rob becomes a fixture at rt, time will tell. one thing that is indisputable, rob has not left one stone unturned and is taking nothing for granted concerning his future. he has worked extremely hard to be ready not only to continue his cowboy career, but to be in a position to help the team win. if there is a better option, then he will sit. one thing for sure, nothing said here by anyone will determine what happens to him this year. only his hard work and the decissions by the coaching staff will matter.

Thank you for the insight and answer.
Always welcome.
 

iceberg

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like a dog said:
This is another post that does not hold up to any sort of empirical observation. Second year? Are you sure that is true for all NFL players? Is there no difference between a quarterback and a runningback? Edgerrin James had 1500+ yards his rookie year. Steve McNair was a statistically average QB untill he blew up in the 2001 season, his seventh in the league. This sort of wild generalization rob your post of all credence. The generally accepted idea is that there are certain positions where there is a certain grace period (e.g. QB, WR, etc.) and others (RB, S... etc..) where almost instant gratification is expected.

empirical observation? expecting a bit much in a forum where most people are *not* that formal in their postings?

petitti to me is one of the bright spots we have on this line and i'm pretty darn sure a vast majority know how i feel about our line by now. i think he got "thrown into the fire" (you know, what you can't do to a QB - they must sit for 3 years so you don't hurt their psyche) and faced some tough competition and has (from what i've been hearing/reading) been busting his *** to take that step up.

whether he can or not we'll see. but while parts of the line are gonna make me groan and hide my eyes every once in awhile, i'm looking forward to seeing how he's progressed. in the end, i hope bp got it right w/this kid. he has to sooner or later you'd think (on his OL picks) so here's to petitti having a good year and helping improve the line for the long term.
 

Vintage

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I certainly hope Pettiti lives up to the hype this message board has for him.

However, until he does proves otherwise, he is a liability. I am glad we at least signed Fabini.
 

Yeagermeister

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like a dog said:
Based on what? You're extensive experience as an NFL coach? How the **** would you know? Have you watched tape of Fabini over the last five years? Have you looked at the new lineman "metrics" for both players?

This is the sort of fluff that means NOTHING. Why do you bother posting this?
Because it's my opinion and if you don't like it there are plenty of other boards you can post on. I'll be happy to show you where they are.

And what do you base your so called opinions on? Are you an nfl coach?
 

Cbz40

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Yeagermeister said:
Because it's my opinion and if you don't like it there are plenty of other boards you can post on. I'll be happy to show you where they are.

And what do you base your so called opinions on? Are you an nfl coach?


Very good Sir......Took the words right out of my mouth.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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like a dog said:
Based on what? You're extensive experience as an NFL coach? How the **** would you know? Have you watched tape of Fabini over the last five years? Have you looked at the new lineman "metrics" for both players?

This is the sort of fluff that means NOTHING. Why do you bother posting this?

He has just as much right to post as you do, actually I would say more right since he has been around a little longer and is a mod.

Not sure what your deal is but I would appreciate if you take your tone down a notch or two.

Here let me help you...

Paxil%20road.jpg
 

iceberg

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Yeagermeister said:
Because it's my opinion and if you don't like it there are plenty of other boards you can post on. I'll be happy to show you where they are.

<mutters>please don't be mine please don't be mine please don't be mine</mutters>

yes - there's a lot out there! maybe cowboyscentral - they like slapping each other around and calling it convo.
 
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