Some new evidence in the Zimmerman case

[Rogah]

Considering I know the judiciary, since I study and work around it 5 days a week and twice on weekends, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Leading questions are prohibited and anyone worth their weight in salt will object in a court of law if opposing counsel is attempting to lead a witness.

The job of the prosecution is to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime in question occurred by using evidence they present, either testimonial (witnesses) or material (exhibits).

The job of the defense is to ask any questions, etc. of witnesses and to present their own exhibits that may give rise to reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.

Lying will get you thrown out. The legal system, no matter how much you want it to be, is not however you think it is in your head or how you've seen on TV or movies.

+1. I've always considered the job of the defense is to make the prosecution's job as hard as possible (while obviously not crossing any ethical borders). So far, Zimmerman's defense is seen as having done a pretty darn good job.

 

[Sarge]

Honestly, how can anyone have such strong opinions, one way or the other about this case (or any other case) until all the facts are out and on the table?

 

[casmith07]

+1. I've always considered the job of the defense is to make the prosecution's job as hard as possible (while obviously not crossing any ethical borders). So far, Zimmerman's defense is seen as having done a pretty darn good job.

Not only that, but your job is to make sure that your client's rights are not infringed upon and that he's given a fair trial with all due process.

Oftentimes, defense counsel's job is simply damage control. If you have a clearly guilty client, you just want to make sure that justice is done -- justice is both sides of the law.

At least, that's what a good defender does. The sleazemeisters try to get guilty guys to walk free.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Honestly, how can anyone have such strong opinions, one way or the other about this case (or any other case) until all the facts are out and on the table?

I agree. As I have said, it doesn't make much sense to draw a conclusion without all the evidence being in. What bugs me is all the people who think Zimmerman is guilty of some heinous act without knowledge of the facts. I get a kick out of the people who think this kind of stuff is solved in a few hours.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

These junior Columbo's crack me up, acting like they're some sort of experts in human forensics. By all accounts, there is nothing unusual or odd about the blood flow patterns from Zimmerman's wounds. A couple weeks ago ABC released footage of Zimmerman in the police station and people were up in arms that he didn't look like he had been injured. Now we see the actual blood, but that's not good enough.

I just do not, for the life of me, understand why so many people want so desperately for Zimmerman to be guilty. They actually get angry and live in denial when some potentially exculpatory evidence surfaces.

Don't get me wrong. If he's guilty, then I want him to be found guilty. But I am not sitting here hoping for him to be guilty.

In my opinion, people are angry because it seems this tragedy didn't have to happen; it was easily avoidable if Zimmerman is less zealous in his pursuit. But it wasn't avoided and now someone is dead.

That may not be an accurate portrayal of events, but that's the perception.

 

[TheCount]

Honestly, how can anyone have such strong opinions, one way or the other about this case (or any other case) until all the facts are out and on the table?

It's what people do. No one teaches "wait for the facts" in grade school. Then again, "all of the facts" will never come out in this case because of the way things went down, there will always be some measure of speculation. Even if Trayvon lived, I'm betting their stories on how things happened would differ.

 

[Rogah]

Honestly, how can anyone have such strong opinions, one way or the other about this case (or any other case) until all the facts are out and on the table?

This is very much how I feel. I kinda throw my hands up and admit I don't know what the heck happened that night. Of course, when we don't know what happened we must give the presumption of innocence to the accused.

I just get angry at what is a clear media agenda to stoke racial tensions in our country. When there are plenty of recent pictures of Martin available but all the media outlets only show us pictures of him that are 3-4 years old, there's a clear agenda in play. I mean, if we're talking about an adult, then older pictures are fine. But is there any 4 year period in a young man's life where he changes more than between the ages of 13- and 17?

Furthermore, what NBC did was beyond inexcusable.

 

[casmith07]

This is very much how I feel. I kinda throw my hands up and admit I don't know what the heck happened that night. Of course, when we don't know what happened we must give the presumption of innocence to the accused.

I just get angry at what is a clear media agenda to stoke racial tensions in our country. When there are plenty of recent pictures of Martin available but all the media outlets only show us pictures of him that are 3-4 years old, there's a clear agenda in play. I mean, if we're talking about an adult, then older pictures are fine. But is there any 4 year period in a young man's life where he changes more than between the ages of 13- and 17?

Furthermore, what NBC did was beyond inexcusable.

There were a lot of pictures out there that were fake, of a "Martin" that was a kid from Georgia and not Trayvon. It's been dumb on both sides.

 

[JoseyWales]

There were a lot of pictures out there that were fake, of a "Martin" that was a kid from Georgia and not Trayvon. It's been dumb on both sides.

Those were pics posted on somebody's facebook. Pretty weak that you'd use that as an example as something comparable to what major news networks were doing with both pictures and audio to put Zimmerman in a bad light, counselor. That wouldn't be one of those shady lawyer tricks being mentioned above, would it?

 

[casmith07]

Those were pics posted on somebody's facebook. Pretty weak that you'd use that as an example as something comparable to what a major news networks were doing with both pictures and audio to put Zimmerman in a bad light, counselor. That wouldn't be one of those shady lawyer tricks being mentioned above, would it?

Why are you assuming that I'm on one side or the other?

Way to tip your hand.

It's been dumb on both sides.

dumb on both sides.

on both sides.

 

[JoseyWales]

Why are you assuming that I'm on one side or the other?

Way to tip your hand, chief.

Where did I say you were on one side or the other? Tip my hand? I was only commenting on your example of pics being used. Didn't say anything about the case itself. But I did notice you didn't respond to the differences of the source of the pics in question.

 

[casmith07]

Where did I say you were on one side or the other? Tip my hand? I was only commenting on your example of pics being used. Didn't say anything about the case itself. But I did notice you didn't respond to the differences of the source of the pics in question.

I don't think it matters, it's been stupid on both sides.

Besides nobody was complaining about the media using menacing photos of Casey Anthony, or photos of her partying at toga parties.

When you have an accused criminal in a case it happens. It's happened forever and it'll happen the next time there's a crime.

 

[JoseyWales]

I don't think it matters, it's been stupid on both sides.

You don't think it matters.

Some random nobody in facebook posts a pic saying it was Trayvon Martin, and it turn out it wasn't vs Major media doctoring 911 calls and manipulating the photos they showed to skew public opinion one way or the other.

Yeah. I could see how they are practically the same.

Besides nobody was complaining about the media using menacing photos of Casey Anthony, or photos of her partying at toga parties.

When you have an accused criminal in a case it happens. It's happened forever and it'll happen the next time there's a crime.

Were those pics of Anthony doctored in any way? I mean, photoshopping her head on some party girl could be the same as rigging the 911 tapes to make somebody sound racist.

But then again, the Anthony case in no way is similar to the Martin/Zimmerman case.

So I'll ask you this. If you were the prosecutor in this case, would you present the same premise of the photo's that you have offered up here?

 

[Cajuncowboy]

You don't think it matters.

Some random nobody in facebook posts a pic saying it was Trayvon Martin, and it turn out it wasn't vs Major media doctoring 911 calls and manipulating the photos they showed to skew public opinion one way or the other.

Yeah. I could see how they are practically the same.


Were those pics of Anthony doctored in any way? I mean, photoshopping her head on some party girl could be the same as rigging the 911 tapes to make somebody sound racist.

But then again, the Anthony case in no way is similar to the Martin/Zimmerman case.

So I'll ask you this. If you were the prosecutor in this case, would you present the same premise of the photo's that you have offered up here?

Nicely done.

 

[casmith07]

You don't think it matters.

Some random nobody in facebook posts a pic saying it was Trayvon Martin, and it turn out it wasn't vs Major media doctoring 911 calls and manipulating the photos they showed to skew public opinion one way or the other.

Yeah. I could see how they are practically the same.

You're going to have to explain what "major doctoring" is, because I haven't seen that really harped on by anyone except a select handful of people here.

Also, if you think those pictures didn't get out around the internet and have an impact, you're mistaken. This is 2012 - Twitter and Facebook reach more people and reach further than any news source could hope to reach. That's why social media managers get paid big time dollars from corporations, etc. these days.

Were those pics of Anthony doctored in any way? I mean, photoshopping her head on some party girl could be the same as rigging the 911 tapes to make somebody sound racist.

Were the photos of Zimmerman doctored? Are you talking about photos released by the media, and media coverage of the story?

But then again, the Anthony case in no way is similar to the Martin/Zimmerman case.

They're more similar than anyone would want to believe, at least as far as public reaction/outcry, etc. But it would take someone looking from the outside as objectively as possible to see that.

So I'll ask you this. If you were the prosecutor in this case, would you present the same premise of the photo's that you have offered up here?

What photos? This question doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

You're going to have to explain what "major doctoring" is, because I haven't seen that really harped on by anyone except a select handful of people here.

Also, if you think those pictures didn't get out around the internet and have an impact, you're mistaken. This is 2012 - Twitter and Facebook reach more people and reach further than any news source could hope to reach. That's why social media managers get paid big time dollars from corporations, etc. these days.



Were the photos of Zimmerman doctored? Are you talking about photos released by the media, and media coverage of the story?



They're more similar than anyone would want to believe, at least as far as public reaction/outcry, etc. But it would take someone looking from the outside as objectively as possible to see that.



What photos? This question doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know how long it will take him to get back on the forum but I can tell you he was referring to the major doctoring of the 911 tape by NBC to purposefully fan the flames of racial tension that were fanned by the likes of Al and Jesse.

And the Anthony case and this one is vastly different because you didn't have racial hatred directed at that case and the usual attention ****** weren't marching in the streets. Very big difference.

 

[casmith07]

I don't know how long it will take him to get back on the forum but I can tell you he was referring to the major doctoring of the 911 tape by NBC to purposefully fan the flames of racial tension that were fanned by the likes of Al and Jesse.

And the Anthony case and this one is vastly different because you didn't have racial hatred directed at that case and the usual attention ****** weren't marching in the streets. Very big difference.

I don't know, I never heard an NBC tape. NBC isn't a channel that I go to for news.

The only 911 tape I heard was from CNN, where they simply raised the volume of the tape.

In referencing Casey Anthony, though, I wasn't attempting to paint any of this discussion in any kind of racial light whatsoever. I am speaking solely on the ability of the public to sway opinion on something one way or another. The outrage about the lack of an arrest in the killing of a teenager is similar to the public outcry about Caylee Anthony being killed and it was even worse with Anthony's acquittal.

Don't make this about race when I'm not taking it there.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't know, I never heard an NBC tape. NBC isn't a channel that I go to for news.

The only 911 tape I heard was from CNN, where they simply raised the volume of the tape.

In referencing Casey Anthony, though, I wasn't attempting to paint any of this discussion in any kind of racial light whatsoever. I am speaking solely on the ability of the public to sway opinion on something one way or another. The outrage about the lack of an arrest in the killing of a teenager is similar to the public outcry about Caylee Anthony being killed and it was even worse with Anthony's acquittal.

Don't make this about race when I'm not taking it there.

you say they are similar and they are not BECAUSE of the racial element. The reverend hucksters that usually spark this outrage were no where around the Antony case. Why? Because it didn't interest them. You didn't have groups of people saying they were going to riot and kill people if they didn't arrest her. You can say it isn't about that but it surely is a component. Why do you think the media started all of this with calling him a white Hispanic? That's plain stupid. And it is intended to divide along racial lines. So there is absolutely no comparison to the two cases.

One case you have someone admitting that he was the one who pulled the trigger and another there was no such admission. but people wanted her strung up, just as they do Zimmerman. And guess what? She wasn't convicted. She was found not guilty.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You'd fit right in with your "hang 'em without any evidence" meme. You are just as credible as they are.

One post from me that indicates that. Just one, counselor. quite frankly, I find your slander to be offensive.

How about you tell us more on how BnA is one of your best friends on the forum.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

One post from me that indicates that. Just one, counselor. quite frankly, I find your slander to be offensive.

How about you tell us more on how BnA is one of your best friends on the forum.

How about you ask him. Or look at his post in this thread. LOL!

Let me help you out here. Post 244.

Have fun.

You too funny.