Some reflection and Draft thoughts

[Whirlwin]

Yes, the nineties Super Bowl teams had both both attributes in the same players.

Players like the list below had the Bates work ethic but had Super Star talent.
Aikman
Emmitt
Irvin
Woodson

I can't find the Jersey anywhere now my cowboy brother but thank you for trying

 

[xwalker]

The trap of drafting for need is you'll start engaging in motivated reasoning on the player's quality when you need a player at that position.

But you still need to balance quality vs. need to get the best outcome for the team. It's not fantasy football. It's a team.

I'm sure "it's a process" when it comes the how the Cowboys try to balance concerns over need and quality.

They probably try to separate out those concerns institutionally, with the scouts entirely unconcerned about the needs of the team, and therefore more objective about the quality of players. And where there is disagreement, people need to make a case. They probably have standard evaluation templates and checklists.

The Cowboys since McClay has been the top talent evaluator try hard to create a draft board that does not include need in the rankings.

They then make need type decisions during the draft.

 

[Dylan88Wilson]

Give me the most talented players, high risk or not.

 

[Rayman70]

I used to post on the old Cowboys fan forum. My avatar was Bob Lilly with the torn Jersey. I have not found a way to implemented here yet.

I recall that. Didn't know that was you! cool. I was on that site many years.

 

[Rayman70]

Yes, Bates was a great ST player.

What I find funny however is that fans loved Bates but hate Jeff Heath.

Heath is a better Safety than Bates on his best day.

but can't tackle. That's the difference between he and bates. Hate is not how I feel toward Heath.Its more disappointing than anything about his tackling.

 

[Whirlwin]

I recall that. Didn't know that was you! cool. I was on that site many years.

I miss so many of my old friends my cowboy brother. Catch-22 still can't. Willpak starhart .cern is here. NAD LOL was crazy. What was your avatar

 

[Rayman70]

I miss so many of my old friends my cowboy brother. Catch-22 still can't. Willpak starhart .cern is here. NAD LOL was crazy. What was your avatar

I mixed my avatar up. Sometimes I was Jim Carey's dumb and dumber character. othertimes Columbo. and honestly...I forget the others lol. But I was on there since about 2004-2005. I remember Haley...that's another guy that was on there a lot. Coogs...that's another.I think I seen him here,but not lately. Of Course CowboyRon. He goes way back...glad to see him here.

 

[Whirlwin]

I mixed my avatar up. Sometimes I was Jim Carey's dumb and dumber character. othertimes Columbo. and honestly...I forget the others lol. But I was on there since about 2004-2005. I remember Haley...that's another guy that was on there a lot. Coogs...that's another.I think I seen him here,but not lately. Of Course CowboyRon. He goes way back...glad to see him here.

I had at least two people ask me all the time are you Haley the old Haley. Everything you post is exactly like him almost. I totally agree with you they kept telling me. I never met Haley but I would have liked to . I think there was like eight or nine of us and we would look for each other every morning. We would jack rabbits all the posts until we found one another. LOL and that's what a football team is like a family. I don't know how people don't get that

 

[Rayman70]

I had at least two people ask me all the time are you Haley the old Haley. Everything you post is exactly like him almost. I totally agree with you they kept telling me. I never met Haley but I would have liked to . I think there was like eight or nine of us and we would look for each other every morning. We would jack rabbits all the posts until we found one another. LOL and that's what a football team is like a family. I don't know how people don't get that

yeah me and the haley guy over on the DC site got along great and always seemed like we were on the same wave length. Haven't seen him here in a while.

 

[Rayman70]

I even asked him if he was Haley THE CHARLES HALEY one time lol. Pretty funny... I think that was back around 2007.

 

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Mods move this if you need to over to the draft board. Anywho, What do you all look for in a draftee or UDFA? Is it one trait that trumps another or do you want the complete package? ...ie high character...speed or leadership? If you had tp choose ONE trait that you see for example in a guy like say, Ed Oliver or one of the top safeties in this draft, what would cause you to say, I want that guy over the other? For me, if we are talkin safety, I wanna guy that may not be a combine stud,but just balls like crazy on tape and makes the entire defense better. My guy at safety would need traits similar to Billy Bates back in the day and or Everson Walls. I REALLY like Adderly and Darnell Savage . I sure miss the days of instinctive players that had class and character...and were just good team guys that elevated the play. TO ME..thats why Earl Thomas would have been great. He's a throw back. Give me your thoughts.

Production is number one. Then attributes that account for the production. Quickness, technique, size, and strength that helps with the role they were potentially drafted for. I love Savage I just don't think he matches well with tight ends. I like Adderly but seems to be falling on boards because of competition. Woods has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. I hope he balls out at FS.

 

[kskboys]

Mods move this if you need to over to the draft board. Anywho, What do you all look for in a draftee or UDFA? Is it one trait that trumps another or do you want the complete package? ...ie high character...speed or leadership? If you had tp choose ONE trait that you see for example in a guy like say, Ed Oliver or one of the top safeties in this draft, what would cause you to say, I want that guy over the other? For me, if we are talkin safety, I wanna guy that may not be a combine stud,but just balls like crazy on tape and makes the entire defense better. My guy at safety would need traits similar to Billy Bates back in the day and or Everson Walls. I REALLY like Adderly and Darnell Savage . I sure miss the days of instinctive players that had class and character...and were just good team guys that elevated the play. TO ME..thats why Earl Thomas would have been great. He's a throw back. Give me your thoughts.

One trait? dammmmmmmm, that's tough. I'd have to go w/ "burst".

 

[kskboys]

Production is number one. Then attributes that account for the production. Quickness, technique, size, and strength that helps with the role they were potentially drafted for. I love Savage I just don't think he matches well with tight ends. I like Adderly but seems to be falling on boards because of competition. Woods has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. I hope he balls out at FS.

Have to disagree. Production is actually quite misleading. I think that's why we took MO, due to his production(High INT numbers).

 

[kskboys]

Careful reading too much into combine workouts. Plenty of guys test way above what their college production was. Look for guys who did well, test average or above, and are well known for putting in tons of work. It's the hardest working guys that succeed.

The hardest working guys w/ the best physical traits.

 

[nobody]

The hardest working guys w/ the best physical traits.

Also add to that preferably dudes who avoid weed and have IQ's greater than border collies.

 

[sbark]

In game instincts. As shown by Darren Woodson, Troy palamu, Ed reed, etc....they were always in the place to effect the play. Add in elite athletism

 

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Have to disagree. Production is actually quite misleading. I think that's why we took MO, due to his production(High INT numbers).

I think it’s always best to start there. I agree it can be misleading. It’s important to make sure the production made sense.

Claiborne was all about ball skills and fluid hips. Not known as a great tackler. A lot was learned from that Mo had 5 INTs each of his last years, I believe. Around the same as Gilmore and Jenkins.

It’s not a perfect science but there is evidence to suggest a high production ratio along the defensive line in college leads to success in the NFL. Lawrence had a 2.3 production ratio. Really high. One of the biggest reasons he was drafted. Robert Quinn has 2.3 as well. Only DE I’ve seen that has higher than 2.3 this year is Ferguson. I agree that they have to be cautious.

 

[xwalker]

Also add to that preferably dudes who avoid weed and have IQ's greater than border collies.

The NFL will fold if all players are required to be smarter than Border Collies.

Don't put that requirement on CZ posters either...

 

[kskboys]

I think it’s always best to start there. I agree it can be misleading. It’s important to make sure the production made sense.

Claiborne was all about ball skills and fluid hips. Not known as a great tackler. A lot was learned from that Mo had 5 INTs each of his last years, I believe. Around the same as Gilmore and Jenkins.

It’s not a perfect science but there is evidence to suggest a high production ratio along the defensive line in college leads to success in the NFL. Lawrence had a 2.3 production ratio. Really high. One of the biggest reasons he was drafted. Robert Quinn has 2.3 as well. Only DE I’ve seen that has higher than 2.3 this year is Ferguson. I agree that they have to be cautious.

True, however traits are much more important. Burst and lateral agility are generally the two biggies.

 

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

True, however traits are much more important. Burst and lateral agility are generally the two biggies.

Absolutely