Something else to argue over... Red light cameras

[Doomsday101]

Show me hard evidence of them not decreasing accidents.

If you Google it, every report I find says the exact opposite. They say they do in fact reduce accidents.

Study finds red-light cameras reduce fatal crashes

Study: Hated Red Light Cameras Reduce Accidents

Aurora cops: Red-light cameras reducing accidents

The funny thing is, you say it's a revenue tool. Dallas Police say it's taking away their revenue.

Red light cameras too good for their own good?

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

 

[YosemiteSam]

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

Well. It seems we have conflicting stories. I say don't send tickets out. Just shoot them as they pass through the intersection.

 

[Cythim]

I disagree it is the short yellows that cause problems. There were not seeing a decrease in accidents at intersection with the camera all they saw was higher revenus. Add to that we the tax payer have to pay the cost of repair of the camera and changing out cameras.

Have there been any studies that show longer yellows actually decrease these accidents? People around here are okay with entering an intersection so long as the light is not red, so they will speed up on yellow to beat the light. I would assume a longer yellow will encourage more drivers to attempt to beat the light and from further away.

Yellow lights seems to last a decent amount of time where I live and I think it makes approaching a light a little more uncertain. Where is the point of no return with a longer yellow? I typically want to stop as soon as I see it turn yellow but 5 cars will fly past me in the next lane to beat the light. There are also certain intersections where you can always count on cars still travelling through the intersection when your light turns green.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Have there been any studies that show longer yellows actually decrease these accidents? People around here are okay with entering an intersection so long as the light is not red, so they will speed up on yellow to beat the light. I would assume a longer yellow will encourage more drivers to attempt to beat the light and from further away.

Yellow lights seems to last a decent amount of time where I live and I think it makes approaching a light a little more uncertain. Where is the point of no return with a longer yellow? I typically want to stop as soon as I see it turn yellow but 5 cars will fly past me in the next lane to beat the light. There are also certain intersections where you can always count on cars still travelling through the intersection when your light turns green.

Yep. Like those bumper stickers say.

• Red: Stop
• Green: Go
• Yellow: Go real fast

Maybe a 4th color is needed.

• Green: Go
• Yellow: Light is about to change (normal)
• Some Color: Anyone intering the enter section with this light, gets a ticket. But if you are already in the intersection, you are okay.
• Red: If you are anywhere in the intersection, you get a ticket.

Of course, the other light will never turn green until the red light is on. (like normal) Even the 2 second delay some stop lights have maybe be good too.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Don't worry. I'm working on an invention that changes your license plate number by casting strategically placed shadows on the plate to alter the numbers and letters. All by the push of a button from from your dashboard. Going through an E-Z pass? No problem, just push here and voila. Going through a known traffic light camera, no problem.

Until then, what you can do is just throw some mud, scratch that, I mean, drive through a muddy dirt field, and don't wipe your front license plate clean. Rear license plate? No problem, just put one of those carry-on things back there and put a cooler box or something that blocks the plate (seems like everyone on the highway does this now) or a lot of bicycles blockin the plate.

Can't take a picture of what they can't see.

 

[Cythim]

Yep. Like those bumper stickers say.

• Red: Stop
• Green: Go
• Yellow: Go real fast

Maybe a 4th color is needed.

• Green: Go
• Yellow: Light is about to change (normal)
• Some Color: Anyone intering the enter section with this light, gets a ticket. But if you are already in the intersection, you are okay.
• Red: If you are anywhere in the intersection, you get a ticket.

Of course, the other light will never turn green until the red light is on. (like normal) Even the 2 second delay some stop lights have maybe be good too.

They also use an all red state that allows the intersection to clear before the next lane gets a green light. I think this more than anything increases the safety. None of it prevents light runners, but safety is there.

 

[Doomsday101]

Have there been any studies that show longer yellows actually decrease these accidents? People around here are okay with entering an intersection so long as the light is not red, so they will speed up on yellow to beat the light. I would assume a longer yellow will encourage more drivers to attempt to beat the light and from further away.

Yellow lights seems to last a decent amount of time where I live and I think it makes approaching a light a little more uncertain. Where is the point of no return with a longer yellow? I typically want to stop as soon as I see it turn yellow but 5 cars will fly past me in the next lane to beat the light. There are also certain intersections where you can always count on cars still travelling through the intersection when your light turns green.

A lot of mixed data on this topic and many cities are debating this issue


The report from the Texas Transportation Institute is the result of a three year study of 181 intersections using police reports in three Texas cities. The purpose of the research was to determine the most effective solutions for problem intersections.

Motorists who are caught by red-light cameras frequently complain that a short yellow light forced them to make a choice between slamming on the brakes, with a chance of getting rear-ended, and continuing through the intersection.

A published newspaper report claims that based on the Texas report the best way to improve safety statistics at intersections is to lengthen yellow lights to one second more than the minimum standard, which will reduce accidents by 40 percent and violations by 53 percent.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/766

 

[RoyTheHammer]

If a person is looking to beat a red light he is going to do it regardless just like the idiots who try to beat a train across the track, we can put singnals we can put up crossing arms and yet it will still happen that some idiot trys to beat a train.

Then let him do it.. he'll just lose money with the camera's there now.

Can't really see a downside to having the camera's except that people don't think they deserve to be punished for breaking the law, because they think its something they have been doing all along and they don't think it should be that big a deal that they break the law.

People are stupid.

 

[Doomsday101]

Then let him do it.. he'll just lose money with the camera's there now.

Can't really see a downside to having the camera's except that people don't think they deserve to be punished for breaking the law, because they think its something they have been doing all along and they don't think it should be that big a deal that they break the law.

People are stupid.

That is you, I had the option to vote against and did.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That is you, I had the option to vote against and did.

What thought process led to you voting that way? What did you think the negatives of the camera's being there were?

 

[Doomsday101]

What thought process led to you voting that way? What did you think the negatives of the camera's being there were?

Unwarranted tickets, people in heavy traffic that get stuck in the intersection due to traffic getting ticketed for one thing. You guys talk about the worst case scenario and there is not any data showing the camera improve the situation. Also there is the cost factor of maintaining and repairing of the system

Sorry left out the last one study after study of the system leading to more accidents not fewer

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Unwarranted tickets, people in heavy traffic that get stuck in the intersection due to traffic getting ticketed for one thing. You guys talk about the worst case scenario and there is not any data showing the camera improve the situation. Also there is the cost factor of maintaining and repairing of the system

If there is a car in front of you that is backed up so far that its close or already in the intersection, the proper response would be to wait back at the line until they clear the intersection. If people did that instead of just going anyway and blocking the intersection because they think, "Hey, its a green light here, we should be moving!".. you wouldn't have that problem you just mentioned.

Instead, people just don't think and push on through, even if it ends up they are blocking the intersection for everyone else when the light changes.

 

[Doomsday101]

If there is a car in front of you that is backed up so far that its close or already in the intersection, the proper response would be to wait back at the line until they clear the intersection. If people did that instead of just going anyway and blocking the intersection because they think, "Hey, its a green light here, we should be moving!".. you wouldn't have that problem you just mentioned.

Instead, people just don't think and push on through, even if it ends up they are blocking the intersection for everyone else when the light changes.

Look even some in police are aginst it:

LA: The city's Police Commission voted unanimously on Tuesday calling for an end to the traffic cameras, claiming their costly presence does not actually make streets safer. The decision still has to be approved by the City Council, but according to Councilman Dennis Zine, the move was a right one.


If you are for it great not all of us feel the same way. If you get a chance on this issue then vote to keep it the people of Houston and other cites across the US have had a chance to cast our vote and in many cases these cities are doing away with them.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-light-cameras-unplugged-los-angeles/story?id=13795492

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Look even some in police are aginst it:

LA: The city's Police Commission voted unanimously on Tuesday calling for an end to the traffic cameras, claiming their costly presence does not actually make streets safer. The decision still has to be approved by the City Council, but according to Councilman Dennis Zine, the move was a right one.


If you are for it great not all of us feel the same way. If you get a chance on this issue then vote to keep it the people of Houston and other cites across the US have had a chance to cast our vote and in many cases these cities are doing away with them.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-light-cameras-unplugged-los-angeles/story?id=13795492

:laugh2:

Did you even read that article or just see the headline and go for it?

Los Angelos wants to scrap it, mainly because the idiots that break the law and get caught dont' think they should have to pay and are completely ignorning the bill or the court summons they receive.. and the law is doing nothing about it. They are letting the idiots run the asylum. "Oh, you guys don't wana pay when you break the law? Ok, we won't enforce it then.."

The other reason they want to scrap it, is because the police cheif says it doesn't make the streets safer at all. Is that so?

This letter cited by an organization for safer streets seems to show differently..

The coalition also cited a letter from the Los Angeles chief of police, which noted a 63 percent decrease in red-light collisions between January 2004 and December 2009.

Bottom line.. people don't want them because they don't think it should be a big deal when they run lights or speed. Most couldn't care less that they are breaking the law because its just something that everybody does and its not a big deal, right?

 

[Doomsday101]

:laugh2:

Did you even read that article or just see the headline and go for it?

Los Angelos wants to scrap it, mainly because the idiots that break the law and get caught dont' think they should have to pay and are completely ignorning the bill or the court summons they receive.. and the law is doing nothing about it. They are letting the idiots run the asylum. "Oh, you guys don't wana pay when you break the law? Ok, we won't enforce it then.."

The other reason they want to scrap it, is because the police cheif says it doesn't make the streets safer at all. Is that so?

This letter cited by an organization for safer streets seems to show differently..




Bottom line.. people don't want them because they don't think it should be a big deal when they run lights or speed. Most couldn't care less that they are breaking the law because its just something that everybody does and its not a big deal, right?

City have also shown increase of rear end accident. Again if you like it vote for it that is your choice I made mine if you don't like my chioce too damn bad.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

City have also shown increase of rear end accident. Again if you like it vote for it that is your choice I made mine if you don't like my chioce too damn bad.

"City"??

Is this some hypothetical city that you created in your mind somewhere? Because nothing in that article says there was an increase in rear end accidents since the camera's were installed. Only that red light collisions were down substantially.

You were given the chance to vote.. you voted no. Not a suprise, as if you give people who break the law a choice on whether they should be fined or they shouldn't.. what do you think they are going to choose?

Most places i'd imagine don't get a vote on it, as they shouldn't. You break the law, you have nothing to cry about for being fined. Its as simple as that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

City have also shown increase of rear end accident. Again if you like it vote for it that is your choice I made mine if you don't like my chioce too damn bad.

Tell the idiots to look where their going! How in hell is this a camera's fault?

If you aren't paying attention while driving or following too close, you are going to hit someone sooner or later anyhow.

 

[Doomsday101]

"City"??

Is this some hypothetical city that you created in your mind somewhere? Because nothing in that article says there was an increase in rear end accidents since the camera's were installed. Only that red light collisions were down substantially.

You were given the chance to vote.. you voted no. Not a suprise, as if you give people who break the law a choice on whether they should be fined or they shouldn't.. what do you think they are going to choose?

Most places i'd imagine don't get a vote on it, as they shouldn't. You break the law, you have nothing to cry about for being fined. Its as simple as that.

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

Not a hypothetical city they are city across the nation. But of course you are a know it all and unless people think as you do they must be trying to con everyone or get away with something. Get a clue,

 

[Doomsday101]

Tell the idiots to look where their going! How in hell is this a camera's fault?

If you aren't paying attention while driving or following too close, you are going to hit someone sooner or later anyhow.

How is the camera making it safer? If the whole point is to spend money to make it safer and yet they show increase in accidents then the tax payers are really getting ripped off.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/increase-accidents

Not a hypothetical city they are city across the nation. But of course you are a know it all and unless people think as you do they must be trying to con everyone or get away with something. Get a clue,

:laugh2:

Im a know it all because i provided a report that said accidents decresed 63 percent since camera's were installed in LA and you shot back with "city says accidents increasing" with no link or anything?

lol.. ok bud.

You have one report here that says accidents are up. There are many out there that say accidents are down. I guess the bottom line is there are conflicting reports, but the only way i see that accidents would increase is because people arn't paying attention and have to slam on the breaks, and the people behind them also arn't paying attention or are following too closely or both.. and slam into them.

The camera's don't cause these accidents.. idiot drivers do.