Sorry, but I need to vent

[Chief]

Chief, I agree entirely on the philosophy aspect (I dont' know enough about Jenkins to comment intelligently).

I like Felix Jones and think he'll contribute nicely. But like you said, I never like the philosophy of falling in love with a guy and ignoring a draft board.

The "he's too much like Barber" argument doesn't sit well with me because Barber shined as a backup to a starter that didn't do much. If Mendenhall is like Barber as Jerry and Wade said, you would figure he, too, could perform admirably as a backup.

The only argument I buy is if the Cowboys simply don't think he'd work as a backup. There are running backs that get better as the game goes by and won't succeed with 8 carries a game. If we deemed Mendenhall is like that, then he'd have been a wasted pick. But why the Barber comparisons then?

Oh, and lastly ... I can't agree that this draft makes me feel like 2001. We had no first round pick and took like third- and sixth-round talents in the second round. I really saw no upside with that draft. At least this one, we agree Felix is a quality player -- perhaps not the best pick, but a solid one -- and Jenkins was a good prospect, even if not everyone's favorite available.

Thanks for the response. But just to clarify, I'm not comparing this draft to 2001. I said it's the most disappointed I've been on draft day since then.

I think this draft is solid. I just think it could have been better.

 

[jterrell]

Chief,
Great post as usual.

This is the way to discuss intelligently without just whining over and over.

I think I can help allay some of your fears here though.

I believe the Felix Jones/Mendenhall deal came about at the urging of Jason Garrett. I think Garrett had actually created some plays for Felix knowing he was a likely pick. I suspect he had looked at film of guys like Reggie Bush and Marshall Faulk.

Dallas had Mike Jenkins as the highest overall player on their board left at 22. They actually had the name written down before canceling it and deciding to go RB first as the next two teams liked RBs.

So I think Dallas went Felix specifically for what he could bring to this offense
and then went BPA with Mike Jenkins.

I can understand the CB concerns but you have to realize Mike Jenkins played on a South Florida team that rose to like number 2 or 3 in the country this year and teams could not throw on them at all. They ended up losing 4 games but as we saw in the Oregon bowl game they allowed 353 yards rushing and only 180 though the air. Teams couldn't beat USF passing the ball, they mauled them.

Also USF didn't have much NFL talent on that defense. VaTech had what 3/4/5 guys drafted off that defense?

 

[DaBoys4Life]

this is how you vent people

intelligently

althought I don't necessarily agree, I'm pretty stocked

no your not your supposed to whine and throw a temper tantrum and use a lot of these thingies

 

[SMCowboy]

I'm still aching over the first round.

First, on the Mendenhall-Felix debate:

I don't have a problem with Felix Jones. I think he's a real nice addition to the team. I love his quickness, big-play ability and intangibles.

My problem with the pick is about philosophy. If you have Mendenhall ranked higher, then you should take him. Jerry refused to comment on the board, so that's all we need to know. He got off the team's board to pick Barber a running mate, instead of picking a guy who may become a franchise back.

Why have a draft board if you're going to ignore it? Months of work by Ciskowski and the scouts go into putting the board together.

I think this is a bad habit and it makes me nervous with Jerry as the dominant personality in the draft room. If Dallas liked Jones better, I'm fine with that. But he should have been higher on the board then.

Like I said, I like Felix Jones and what he offers. I think he'll be a nice fit. But we'll follow this in the coming years and see how the two backs compare.

Chief, they used the board EXACTLY the way it is ment to be used. From all reports I have heard while Mendenhall was ranked as the 2nd best RB on the board, Felix Jones was listed as 2B on our board. When they were both on the board and they were ranked so closely together, they weighed how well each would fit on our team and help us the most. Draft boards are not ment to be used to automatically choose the top player on the board. You rank players based on how good of a player they are. Then when it comes your times to pick you see who the top ranked players on your board are, how likely any of the players you may pass up on are to make it to your next pick, and how well each player will fit on your team.

Dallas looked at the draft board and saw that Mendenhall and Jones were VERY closely ranked and that Mike Jenkins was also on the board still. Then then they discussed who was most likely to make it to #28 or be a player that they could trade up for. They correctly said that Jenkins was that player. They then had to see which RB between Mendenhall and Jones would help the Cowboys the most. And they felt that Jones was the RB that would help us the most.

My biggest disappointment was the Jenkins pick. Out of the top 8 or so cornerbacks, he was the one guy I didn't want. Every report I read talked about his inconsistency and his lack of ball skills.

Everyone talked about the top-notch physical ability, but that's just not enough. Even his own position coach talked about how Jenkins needs to be pushed, how he needs to play harder.

I liked Cason and Flowers because of their productivity and intangibles. I don't think Jenkins is that much better of an athlete. Cason had 15 interceptions to Jenkins' 6 in their four-year careers. A.J. Smith at San Diego is a GM whom I trust and he jumped all over Cason. I'm not surprised.

Simply put, Dallas bypassed the better football players at CB to pick the better athlete.

Again, the next few years will tell us if Jerry was right. I'll be glad to admit it if I'm wrong, and I actually hope I have to.

But right now, this is the most disappointed I've been on draft weekend since 2001.

We will see who is right, but Dallas had Jenkins as the #1 CB on their board, and most draft experts said that Jenkins was the most NFL ready CB on the draft board. That is all we can hope for is for Dallas to draft the best players on their board.

 

[Ashwynn]

Bottom line if they are both there and they take Jones, Then they have jones rated higher.

 

[Chief]

Chief,
Great post as usual.

This is the way to discuss intelligently without just whining over and over.

I think I can help allay some of your fears here though.

I believe the Felix Jones/Mendenhall deal came about at the urging of Jason Garrett. I think Garrett had actually created some plays for Felix knowing he was a likely pick. I suspect he had looked at film of guys like Reggie Bush and Marshall Faulk.

Dallas had Mike Jenkins as the highest overall player on their board left at 22. They actually had the name written down before canceling it and deciding to go RB first as the next two teams liked RBs.

So I think Dallas went Felix specifically for what he could bring to this offense
and then went BPA with Mike Jenkins.

I can understand the CB concerns but you have to realize Mike Jenkins played on a South Florida team that rose to like number 2 or 3 in the country this year and teams could not throw on them at all. They ended up losing 4 games but as we saw in the Oregon bowl game they allowed 353 yards rushing and only 180 though the air. Teams couldn't beat USF passing the ball, they mauled them.

Also USF didn't have much NFL talent on that defense. VaTech had what 3/4/5 guys drafted off that defense?

I was hoping you and InmanRoshi would chime in.

I know you and I disagreed somewhat on Jenkins before the draft and like IR said, he and I and a few others are in the minority on this guy. I hope he steps up to the challenge of being in the NFL.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Chief, could you find the quotes about him being unmotivated? I've seen you and IR allude to tht, but I haven't really paid any attention to it. I never considered him one of the guys that the 'boys would get.

 

[TheSkaven]

Good points, all of them Chief. On the running back debate, I'll just use what Albert Breer stated this morning since he put it better than I ever could:

"I still can't shake the feeling that Dallas just took Dave Meggett over Fred Taylor. Or maybe more accurately, Eric Metcalf over Edgerrin James. I'm hoping that illustrates my feeling that the Cowboys got a good player there (Felix Jones), but could've had a much better one (Rashard Mendenhall)."

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I understand this thread, however I really believe we done the right thing.

 

[wileedog]

I don't like guys with motivation issues.

And that's coming from his position coach at South Florida.

Wasn't some of the concern with Mendenhall that some folks were worried about his motivation levels before he was given the starting job this year? And that would be a problem once he went back to being "2nd string?"

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I have the same concerns. I said when Ireland left that Ciskowski's biggest job responsibility that comes with the promotion is not the talent evaluation, but someone who will stand up to Jerry and speak on behalf of the scouts when Jerry gets some of his pet cats. Reportedly Ireland and Jerry got into some pretty heated discussions in the War Room. I don't know if Ciskowski has the same chutzpah.



I love the 2nd day. I would have been completely happy with Choice in the 3rd and Scandrick in the 4th, and the fact that Jerry was able to maneuver around and get both of them and a 3rd adn 4th next year. And the 1st day isn't without hope by any means ... it's just going to be boom or bust with all three guys. Like I said last night, I don't think anyone is going to look back on this draft in 5 years and give it a C-. It's going to be an A or an F, depending on what the top 3 picks give us. And just like Julius was linked with Steven Jackson, and DeMarcus will always be linked with Merriman, Felix will now always be linked and compared with Mendenhall which will always slant the viewpoint. May not be fair, but that's the way it is. But the hints of pet cats running amok in the War Room and a lot of crazy moving back for the sake of moving back ... it brought back some late 90's flashbacks.

post of the year man.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Jerry refused to comment on the board, so that's all we need to know

That's all we needed to know or you needed to know. Everyone in that war room seemed very happy to me, especially Garrett.

Listen very closely to the end of the video of the war room after drafting Felix and you will hear someone say "THAT'S WOW RIGHT THERE"!

That's all I need to know!

 

[RCowboyFan]

Wasn't some of the concern with Mendenhall that some folks were worried about his motivation levels before he was given the starting job this year? And that would be a problem once he went back to being "2nd string?"

BINGO!! Yes, Mendenhall has had the same issues or concerns by some. Thats why I wasn't so high on Mendenhall.

But again, I agree with Chief, about Picking according to the board. But then if you think guy didn't get motivated in College or had issues like that, for me that is a red flag too. At the same time, guy like Jenkins doesn't fall that far, if they weren't some concerns.

So we can't have it both ways. You can't say people with effort issues shouldn't be selected and then vent about not selecting the guy who has had motivation or effort issues.

Personally, I didn't see anything good about Mendenall in the 3-4 games i saw last year. Only one game impressed me, that was against USC. I saw really good things from Felix jones, but then I didn't think he was or could be starting RB, based on him never being one. Only RBs I liked in this draft as Stewart and Ray Rice.

 

[DallasEast]

My problem with the second guessing of the cornerback selection is partially based on what we knew going into the draft:

• Jerry Jones brought these cornerbacks to visit: Antoine Cason, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Brandon Flowers, Charles Godfrey, Leodis McKelvin and Tracy Porter.
• Likewise, Chargers' GM A.J. Smith brought in cornerbacks Tyvon Branch, Terrell Thomas, Patrick Lee, Dwight Lowery and Terrence Wheatley. Notably absent from the invitees: Antoine Cason, local kid, University of Arizona.
• The Chargers had a sizable hole in their secondary when Drayton Florence bolted for the Jaguars.
• Dallas had the #28 overall pick. San Diego was perched one slot ahead at #27.
• Both teams coveted a projected first round CB prospect

Fast forward to the draft. Dallas selects Felix Jones with its first pick. By default, cornerback became the number one priority if a first-round quality CB prospect would be there at #28. However, the decision is compounded by the question of, "Will the best prospect get past San Diego?"

Cason came to Valley Ranch. He received a CB grade from the Cowboys. Obviously, Mike Jenkins got a HIGHER grade.

It's highly likely that none of the Chargers' invitees would merit a #27 selection. So, who would they pick at #27?

It could be argued that Jenkins was rated as a mid first-rounder and Antoine Cason was rated lower. So, if you're in the Cowboys warroom, which CB would you project the Chargers selecting one slot ahead of you? Jenkins or the guy you AND who you believe the Chargers rated lower?

Personally, I don't see how you don't jump ahead of the Chargers and pick the guy you feel is the best remaining CB and who you think the Chargers will snatch as soon as the clock started for them to turn in the pick. No way, bu that's just my opinion.

 

[BlueStar22]

My problem with the pick is about philosophy. If you have Mendenhall ranked higher, then you should take him. Jerry refused to comment on the board, so that's all we need to know. He got off the team's board to pick Barber a running mate, instead of picking a guy who may become a franchise back.

well to be fair, from what has been noted, the Rams had the DT from LSU rated higher but took Chris Long instead.

 

[BigDFan5]

I'm still aching over the first round.

First, on the Mendenhall-Felix debate:

I don't have a problem with Felix Jones. I think he's a real nice addition to the team. I love his quickness, big-play ability and intangibles.

My problem with the pick is about philosophy. If you have Mendenhall ranked higher, then you should take him. Jerry refused to comment on the board, so that's all we need to know. He got off the team's board to pick Barber a running mate, instead of picking a guy who may become a franchise back.

Why have a draft board if you're going to ignore it? Months of work by Ciskowski and the scouts go into putting the board together.

I think this is a bad habit and it makes me nervous with Jerry as the dominant personality in the draft room. If Dallas liked Jones better, I'm fine with that. But he should have been higher on the board then.

Like I said, I like Felix Jones and what he offers. I think he'll be a nice fit. But we'll follow this in the coming years and see how the two backs compare.

My biggest disappointment was the Jenkins pick. Out of the top 8 or so cornerbacks, he was the one guy I didn't want. Every report I read talked about his inconsistency and his lack of ball skills.

Everyone talked about the top-notch physical ability, but that's just not enough. Even his own position coach talked about how Jenkins needs to be pushed, how he needs to play harder.

I liked Cason and Flowers because of their productivity and intangibles. I don't think Jenkins is that much better of an athlete. Cason had 15 interceptions to Jenkins' 6 in their four-year careers. A.J. Smith at San Diego is a GM whom I trust and he jumped all over Cason. I'm not surprised.

Simply put, Dallas bypassed the better football players at CB to pick the better athlete.

Again, the next few years will tell us if Jerry was right. I'll be glad to admit it if I'm wrong, and I actually hope I have to.

But right now, this is the most disappointed I've been on draft weekend since 2001.

The scouts said they had both runners ranked virtually the same

If it was a QB ranked top on our board would you have been ok selecting backup QB in round 1?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The scouts said they had both runners ranked virtually the same

If it was a QB ranked top on our board would you have been ok selecting backup QB in round 1?

I said this yesterday

Brady Quinn was the #7 or 8 guy on our board, and we were going to take Spencer instead

 

[BigDFan5]

Because Jerry tells everyone he has final say.

Jerry says he has final say to break a tie between scouts and coach.

Its a consensus opinion in the draft room

 

[BigDFan5]

He was the #1 CB on the Cowboys board. Sorry!

 

[wileedog]

BINGO!! Yes, Mendenhall has had the same issues or concerns by some. Thats why I wasn't so high on Mendenhall.

But again, I agree with Chief, about Picking according to the board. But then if you think guy didn't get motivated in College or had issues like that, for me that is a red flag too. At the same time, guy like Jenkins doesn't fall that far, if they weren't some concerns.

So we can't have it both ways. You can't say people with effort issues shouldn't be selected and then vent about not selecting the guy who has had motivation or effort issues.

Personally, I didn't see anything good about Mendenall in the 3-4 games i saw last year. Only one game impressed me, that was against USC. I saw really good things from Felix jones, but then I didn't think he was or could be starting RB, based on him never being one. Only RBs I liked in this draft as Stewart and Ray Rice.

I think bottom line if you don't have Barber you take Mendenhall and don't think twice.

But they are currently negotiating a mega buck, 4-5 year commitment to Barber. If Mendenhall can't bring the things that Felix does - screens, splitting out wide, kick returning, etc, you are putting yourself in a situation where you have two very highly paid running backs and one is always on the bench. And you still need to find that 'scat back' (for lack of a better term, I don't think that is Felix's ceiling personally) to do all of those other things.

If Felix was a reach I would agree with those who don't like the move completely. BUt he wasn't, and it is conceivable given character issues that the ratings between these two guys on the boards were very close anyway.

If one guy ranks 98 and the other ranks 95, but the 95 fits your team better, I don't have a problem taking the "lesser" player on the board.