Sorry, but I need to vent

[TwoDeep3]

Because Jerry tells everyone he has final say.

Chief, I have heard several pressers with jerry lately and the question was asked who makes the decision.

While he does, he has also said several times that he is talked out of his position.

I wouldn't assume he was the one pulling the trigger on jenkins neccissarily, old friend.

 

[Chief]

Chief, could you find the quotes about him being unmotivated? I've seen you and IR allude to tht, but I haven't really paid any attention to it. I never considered him one of the guys that the 'boys would get.

"One thing he needs to do is work harder, learn that every play has an impact, whether it's in practice or a game. He's gotta learn that - 'This play is very, very important, don't take a play off.' He could also work on his ball skills a bit. He has good hands, not great hands."

This is from the defensive coordinator, not the position coach.

Obviously, the coach has a lot great things to say about the kid. This part just bothered me. It's a red flag for a first-rounder, IMO.

I didn't mention the arrest, because the coach's explanation seemed good.

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/archives/2008/04/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-south-fl.html

 

[jobberone]

Nice posts Chief and IR. I think Cason may turn out to be the better back. He seems to be around the ball a lot. And you cannot teach instincts. But I think they did stay with their board with taking Jenkins. I think both will do well. I do suspect that Cason will be more like Henry in getting around the ball. Both will be quality starters IMO.

I agree with you Chief about Mendenhall. My disappointment has been lessened some with the draft of Choice. But Choice is not going to be the back that Mendenhall will. And neither will Jones. I had Mendenhall number two behind Stewart and ahead of DMac. Of course that means nothing but my own satisfaction if it turns out right. I do think Dallas will regret to some extent passing on someone thought to be a complete and franchise back. Hopefully we will get enough big plays from Jones to offset it at least some.

With the addition of Choice to backup MB, you could look at Jones as being a plus for us. Jones is going to be a more explosive player in space IMO. Much more. And the ability to put both Jones and MB in the same backfield is an additional plus. Add in the return ability of Jones and going long on passes out of the backfield and we may lose a lot of disappointment.

 

[jterrell]

Good points, all of them Chief. On the running back debate, I'll just use what Albert Breer stated this morning since he put it better than I ever could:

"I still can't shake the feeling that Dallas just took Dave Meggett over Fred Taylor. Or maybe more accurately, Eric Metcalf over Edgerrin James. I'm hoping that illustrates my feeling that the Cowboys got a good player there (Felix Jones), but could've had a much better one (Rashard Mendenhall)."

Meggett won a Super Bowl and Fred Taylor hasn't. Taylor finally made it a Pro Bowl just now as a part-time player.

Metcalf ended up with a 14(if my quick match is accurate) year NFL career and if we get that from Jones that's great imho.

Look at this way.... Brandon Jacobs and Ahmed Bradshaw. Bradshaw ended up scoring more playoff TDs then Jacobs.

 

[WoodysGirl]

"One thing he needs to do is work harder, learn that every play has an impact, whether it's in practice or a game. He's gotta learn that - 'This play is very, very important, don't take a play off.' He could also work on his ball skills a bit. He has good hands, not great hands."

This is from the defensive coordinator, not the position coach.

Obviously, the coach has a lot great things to say about the kid. This part just bothered me. It's a red flag for a first-rounder, IMO.

I didn't mention the arrest, because the coach's explanation seemed good.

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/archives/2008/04/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-south-fl.html

While I understand your concern based on those comments, but I don't find those comments as egregious as you do. I look at that as something you tell any growing player, especially one who supposedly has alot of talent and potential. You want to maximize their potential as much as you can, because some people are always more self-motivated than others. I think we'll find out soon enough how much motivation he really needs...

Meggett won a Super Bowl and Fred Taylor hasn't. Taylor finally made it a Pro Bowl just now as a part-time player.

Metcalf ended up with a 14(if my quick match is accurate) year NFL career and if we get that from Jones that's great imho.

Look at this way.... Brandon Jacobs and Ahmed Bradshaw. Bradshaw ended up scoring more playoff TDs then Jacobs.

To be fair, Fred Taylor has suffered numerous injuries over the years and he plays in a small market. Very underrated player, IMO. You don't rush for 10k plus yards without talent.

Also, evaluating him based on his TEAM's ability to get to the super bowl is flawed.

 

[jjktkk]

I'm still aching over the first round.

First, on the Mendenhall-Felix debate:

I don't have a problem with Felix Jones. I think he's a real nice addition to the team. I love his quickness, big-play ability and intangibles.

My problem with the pick is about philosophy. If you have Mendenhall ranked higher, then you should take him. Jerry refused to comment on the board, so that's all we need to know. He got off the team's board to pick Barber a running mate, instead of picking a guy who may become a franchise back.

Why have a draft board if you're going to ignore it? Months of work by Ciskowski and the scouts go into putting the board together.

I think this is a bad habit and it makes me nervous with Jerry as the dominant personality in the draft room. If Dallas liked Jones better, I'm fine with that. But he should have been higher on the board then.

Like I said, I like Felix Jones and what he offers. I think he'll be a nice fit. But we'll follow this in the coming years and see how the two backs compare.

My biggest disappointment was the Jenkins pick. Out of the top 8 or so cornerbacks, he was the one guy I didn't want. Every report I read talked about his inconsistency and his lack of ball skills.

Everyone talked about the top-notch physical ability, but that's just not enough. Even his own position coach talked about how Jenkins needs to be pushed, how he needs to play harder.

I liked Cason and Flowers because of their productivity and intangibles. I don't think Jenkins is that much better of an athlete. Cason had 15 interceptions to Jenkins' 6 in their four-year careers. A.J. Smith at San Diego is a GM whom I trust and he jumped all over Cason. I'm not surprised.

Simply put, Dallas bypassed the better football players at CB to pick the better athlete.

Again, the next few years will tell us if Jerry was right. I'll be glad to admit it if I'm wrong, and I actually hope I have to.

But right now, this is the most disappointed I've been on draft weekend since 2001.

I understand your point about Jones over Mendehall. Jerry stated that it was a "coinflip" between the two. I have no problem with Jenkins. He was rated higher than Cason and Flowers, so you kinda contradicted yourself with saying the Cowboys need to stick with their board.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

I look at these selections as part of a puzzle in which pieces are viewed as fitting or not fitting. Felix jones fits a piece as a complimentary RB and a contributor as a return guy. In addition to this, I see situations in which they're both on the field, with Barber in the backfield and jones goes in motion. Getting Choice was the other piece in which we get real depth and another option to rest Barber with no drop off in talent.
Let's remember that this was a good year for RB's an d we took advantage of that fact in this draft. Mendenhall would have been a good pick as well, but it was apparent that JJ and crew wanted the speed and ST factor.

 

[RCowboyFan]

Also, evaluating him based on his TEAM's ability to get to the super bowl is flawed.

I disagree there. I am not saying, player should be evaluated sorely based on SB, but how much the team wins with the player in fold, if surrounding case is also pretty comparable is very fair.

For example, Barry Sanders vs Emmit Smith. Not many might agree, but I will bet, Cowboys wouldn't have won three SBs with Barry Sanders vs Emmit.

Barry was flashy but very flawed RB, who never trusted his OL and wasn't a great team mate from all that I read about him, and saw him when I was in Detroit compared to Emmit. His ammo was he would have one or two flashy great runs which would make everyone forget all the bad plays he had.

Same thing can be said about Dan Marino. As much I think Dan Marino is a great QB, he also wanted be more focal point than winning IMO.

Anyway, the point is, I agree that you cannot totally go on SBs, but there are certain players, who always seem to be on winning teams. I just don't think thats by chance.

 

[Randy White]

The only argument I buy is if the Cowboys simply don't think he'd work as a backup. There are running backs that get better as the game goes by and won't succeed with 8 carries a game. If we deemed Mendenhall is like that, then he'd have been a wasted pick. But why the Barber comparisons then?

Bingo. You , my friend.

The Barber comparasions are simply describing his running style, not that he's another Barber. He's faster than Barber, but doesn't catch the ball as well, nor is he as good a blocker as Barber.

But those are just minor details. The bottom line is what you said at the begining of that paragraph and since Felix Jones was still projected to go in the first round, and most projected him to go to the Cowboys at #22, there's absolutely nothing to complain about that pick, short of McFadden falling to #22 and the Cowboys bypassing him.

Keep this mind also, the Panthers passed on Mendehell to draft Stewart and they too have a starting RB and lost a starting RB, so the Cowboys are not alone in this judgement.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

For those that say Jones and Mendenhall was rated the same on the cowboys draft board.

Norm has said some things during the draft and he has said them in a manner that seems to indicate that had some real info on it and not just speculation.

Concerning the draft position of Jones vs Mendenhall.

The cowboys have 3 RBs listed in a Tier 1 group. McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall.

They had 1 RB listed in their Tier 2 group. That was Jones.

So it is clear they felt Mendenhall was a step up over Jones overall or they would have put Mendenhall in the Tier 2 group with Jones or they would have put Jones in the Tier 1 group with McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall.

Now with that said I understand why they took him over mendenhall for a few reasons.

1. He is the perfect Compliment to Barber. Barber is the bruiser and Jones is the home run threat.

2. Don't underestimate Garrett in this equation. IMO he wanted Jones just as much because of the versatility he could use Jones in this offense.

3. The KR abilities of Jones. His averages are amazing.

4. Barber is a player that has had a role of sharing the load both in College and the Pros, Jones is the same. So you have the idea that both would be ok with that while I have heard rumors that Mendenhall has been upset with sharing the load in the past.

5. Jones has had a good career and put up numbers during his whole college career, whether that be in the running or the return game. Mendenhall pretty much was a one year wonder.

Now don't get me wrong. I actually liked Mendenhall better but it is what it is.

NOW...

If we are going to complain that we should not follow our board with the highest ranked player for a position concerning Mendenhall and Jones. It is hard for us to turn around and do the same when we do take the player they have rated highest on their board of those available.

Jenkins was that player.

Another thing to consider.

The titans were going to take jones if we did not and The chargers were going to take Jenkins if we did not. This was said afterwards and I think it is true as right after each pick the Titans took Chris Johnson (talk about a reach) and the Chargers took Cason.

Another thing to consider.

In Jenkins we get a guy that should be able to contribute from the get go. Whether that be in a nickel situation or on special teams. He too can be a pretty good returner.

So although I liked Mendenhall better, although they had him rated higher. I find it hard to fault them for taking both Jones and Jenkins.

They were slated to go where they did or higher. I also think they make this team better.

Time will Tell I guess.

Oh and as others have noted, your post is the classy and adult way to address your problems unlike how many others have done. But than again I don't expect anything less from you as you have always been a class guy that I have always had a high level of respect for on this board.

 

[wileedog]

Barry was flashy but very flawed RB, who never trusted his OL

Barry never played with a good O-line. Not even an average one. THere were no other threats on offense either, every team walked into Detroit geared up to stop Barry.

I can't even imagine the devastation of Barry running behind our line in the early 90's with Aikman, Irvin and Novacek out there to make them pay for stacking the line.

I agree with you on his team and character issues, but in terms of pure physical talent Barry was simply a better back than Emmit IMO. Put Emmit on those Detroit teams and they still don't win a thing, and he doesn't have the yardage record.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

In concept I understand Chief's point about the board.

But "fit" for your team is also a very important part of the decision and simply put, it was Felix Jones' destiny to be a Cowboy. It just fit. Mendenhall, while on paper and a board, may be a higher ranked prospect, just wasn't the fit for this team at this time. Frankly, if you don't consider the fit foryour team you are missing a big part of the team building concept.

As for the comparison of the player's themselves, I don't understand any disappointment with Felix over Mendenhall.
M is a one year wonder, flavor of the month. They are in EVERY draft. M is not going to give you the ability to hit a home run any time he carries the ball and by contract Felix can take it to the house on any carry.

Felix has shown himself worthy of playing for 3 years in the best conference in the entire nation and splitting carries with a 2 time runner up for Heisman, AA, top 5 RB. Think about that for a minute. Not 2nd team, but truly splitting carries. Sort of their 1A RB. Mendenhall just got on the field this past season. BIG, BIG, difference in the two players.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I disagree there. I am not saying, player should be evaluated sorely based on SB, but how much the team wins with the player in fold, if surrounding case is also pretty comparable is very fair.

For example, Barry Sanders vs Emmit Smith. Not many might agree, but I will bet, Cowboys wouldn't have won three SBs with Barry Sanders vs Emmit.

Barry was flashy but very flawed RB, who never trusted his OL and wasn't a great team mate from all that I read about him, and saw him when I was in Detroit compared to Emmit. His ammo was he would have one or two flashy great runs which would make everyone forget all the bad plays he had.

Same thing can be said about Dan Marino. As much I think Dan Marino is a great QB, he also wanted be more focal point than winning IMO.

Anyway, the point is, I agree that you cannot totally go on SBs, but there are certain players, who always seem to be on winning teams. I just don't think thats by chance.

That argument would make sense to me if the Jags were either contenders every year or bad every year. They had a couple really good seasons with Brunell early on...and then a bunch of middle-of-the-road to bad seasons. Get a coaching change, along with a change in team philosphy, new QB, they're finally turning the corner. How can you possibly put that evolution and lack of success on Fred Taylor?

 

[Chief]

For those that say Jones and Mendenhall was rated the same on the cowboys draft board.

Norm has said some things during the draft and he has said them in a manner that seems to indicate that had some real info on it and not just speculation.

Concerning the draft position of Jones vs Mendenhall.

The cowboys have 3 RBs listed in a Tier 1 group. McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall.

They had 1 RB listed in their Tier 2 group. That was Jones.

So it is clear they felt Mendenhall was a step up over Jones overall or they would have put Mendenhall in the Tier 2 group with Jones or they would have put Jones in the Tier 1 group with McFadden, Stewart and Mendenhall.

Now with that said I understand why they took him over mendenhall for a few reasons.

1. He is the perfect Compliment to Barber. Barber is the bruiser and Jones is the home run threat.

2. Don't underestimate Garrett in this equation. IMO he wanted Jones just as much because of the versatility he could use Jones in this offense.

3. The KR abilities of Jones. His averages are amazing.

4. Barber is a player that has had a role of sharing the load both in College and the Pros, Jones is the same. So you have the idea that both would be ok with that while I have heard rumors that Mendenhall has been upset with sharing the load in the past.

5. Jones has had a good career and put up numbers during his whole college career, whether that be in the running or the return game. Mendenhall pretty much was a one year wonder.

Now don't get me wrong. I actually liked Mendenhall better but it is what it is.

NOW...

If we are going to complain that we should not follow our board with the highest ranked player for a position concerning Mendenhall and Jones. It is hard for us to turn around and do the same when we do take the player they have rated highest on their board of those available.

Jenkins was that player.

Another thing to consider.

The titans were going to take jones if we did not and The chargers were going to take Jenkins if we did not. This was said afterwards and I think it is true as right after each pick the Titans took Chris Johnson (talk about a reach) and the Chargers took Cason.

Another thing to consider.

In Jenkins we get a guy that should be able to contribute from the get go. Whether that be in a nickel situation or on special teams. He too can be a pretty good returner.

So although I liked Mendenhall better, although they had him rated higher. I find it hard to fault them for taking both Jones and Jenkins.

They were slated to go where they did or higher. I also think they make this team better.

Time will Tell I guess.

Oh and as others have noted, your post is the classy and adult way to address your problems unlike how many others have done. But than again I don't expect anything less from you as you have always been a class guy that I have always had a high level of respect for on this board.

Good, thoughtful post and thanks for the kind words at the end.

I'll come around.

 

[speedkilz88]

The coach also said this and it looks like he was just saying that he has come a long way but still needs to stay on track.

He was like most kids, when he first got here, he was a raw talent, and didn't know how to work real hard. He went through growing pains, and redshirted that first year. He has grown, and learned how to work. He has loads of talent.

 

[RCowboyFan]

That argument would make sense to me if the Jags were either contenders every year or bad every year. They had a couple really good seasons with Brunell early on...and then a bunch of middle-of-the-road to bad seasons. Get a coaching change, along with a change in team philosphy, new QB, they're finally turning the corner. How can you possibly put that evolution and lack of success on Fred Taylor?

Because he was constantly hurt. He was and is a immensenly talented player. Part of being a great player is being healthy too.

When Stewart was healthy or is healthy he is tremendous asset to team. But he is not healthy too often. Thats all I was saying about him. But my main point was, that you cannot say, that you cannot lay blame on a player for their team not getting to SB or winning.

Clearly you can, in my opinion.

 

[UVAwahoos]

The thing is, once the pick has been made, it's tough to compare the players because the system you play in definitely has a lot do with your success. Because of this, I doubt Mendenhall would've been as successful as a Cowboy than he might be with another team that can play him as a feature back and really take advantage of his strengths. We have Barber, so I'm not sure Mendenhall would've ever got to bloom unless Barber went down with an injury. In contrast, we can use Felix for all of his strengths with Barber also on the field, whereas a team like New Orleans with Reggie Bush would not have been able to. It's really going to be tough to compare Felix and Mendenhall, but we will definitely be able access whether Felix was a good pick just based on how he helps us every Sunday. We picked the right player for our system.

I am still a bit shocked about the TE pick in round 2 though, but I've warmed up to it after reading some of the positive comments on this board.

 

[RCowboyFan]

Barry never played with a good O-line. Not even an average one. THere were no other threats on offense either, every team walked into Detroit geared up to stop Barry.

I can't even imagine the devastation of Barry running behind our line in the early 90's with Aikman, Irvin and Novacek out there to make them pay for stacking the line.

I agree with you on his team and character issues, but in terms of pure physical talent Barry was simply a better back than Emmit IMO. Put Emmit on those Detroit teams and they still don't win a thing, and he doesn't have the yardage record.

Hog wash. Sure he didn't have OL like Emmit had in his heydays. But even when the line wasn't good in his later days, EMmit still managed to be productive.

I have seen all Lions games almost pretty much since 96-97 till 2004. Barry Sanders was taken out mostly from short down situations, and there was reason for it. It wasn't because the OL was bad. He just didn't trust his OL or plow straight ahead.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Because he was constantly hurt. He was and is a immensenly talented player. Part of being a great player is being healthy too.

When Stewart was healthy or is healthy he is tremendous asset to team. But he is not healthy too often. Thats all I was saying about him. But my main point was, that you cannot say, that you cannot lay blame on a player for their team not getting to SB or winning.

Clearly you can, in my opinion.

1) The only player, IMO, who can truly make or break a team's SB run is a quarterback, even if the overall talent around him is elite.

2) Re: the jags, they've always had a running back that could carry the load. But during Taylor's more injury-filled years, the team had talent issues. We can agree to disagree that Taylor's injuries hamstrung the team from making a run.

 

[Tobal]

Mayock and Goose have made me feel good about Felix Jones. Mayock said Felix has great vision and instincts, said he runs with some decent power and that he will drive through tackles better than McFadden.

He then showed some video of Felix doing just that....


Goose told norm before the draft that a teams GM he talked to that morning (not Jerry) said that if Jones had gone to a D1 school without McFadden he'd be a top tem pick....

Take that for what it's worth.