Sorry, but I need to vent

[Randy White]

Barry never played with a good O-line. Not even an average one. THere were no other threats on offense either, every team walked into Detroit geared up to stop Barry.

That's simply not true. He had a good, solid O-line with two pro bowl players in Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover. He also played with receivers like Johnnie Morton, Herman Moore, and Brett Perriman.

Barry was one of the best runners of all times and certainly a HOF. But what made him so great, was also a detriment. As an O-lineman, you'd hate to block for him because you don't know what he was going to do.

I can't even imagine the devastation of Barry running behind our line in the early 90's with Aikman, Irvin and Novacek out there to make them pay for stacking the line.

He wouldn't have been nearly as effective as Emmitt was, or put up the numbers that he did with Detroit.

To begin with, he would have made Moose useless because he couldn't run behind a FB. He had a heck of a FB blocking for him in 1996, Cory Schlesinger, but since his style was basically " go where the wind takes you ", it didn't last long nor was he as effective.

Also Barry was the type of running back who could break 2 fifty yards runs, then have 18 carries for 30 yards, or make a spectacular run for a net of 4 yards, and come out on goal line situations because he wasn't really an inside the tackles RB.

 

[jobberone]

In concept I understand Chief's point about the board.

But "fit" for your team is also a very important part of the decision and simply put, it was Felix Jones' destiny to be a Cowboy. It just fit. Mendenhall, while on paper and a board, may be a higher ranked prospect, just wasn't the fit for this team at this time. Frankly, if you don't consider the fit foryour team you are missing a big part of the team building concept.

As for the comparison of the player's themselves, I don't understand any disappointment with Felix over Mendenhall.
M is a one year wonder, flavor of the month. They are in EVERY draft. M is not going to give you the ability to hit a home run any time he carries the ball and by contract Felix can take it to the house on any carry.

Felix has shown himself worthy of playing for 3 years in the best conference in the entire nation and splitting carries with a 2 time runner up for Heisman, AA, top 5 RB. Think about that for a minute. Not 2nd team, but truly splitting carries. Sort of their 1A RB. Mendenhall just got on the field this past season. BIG, BIG, difference in the two players.

If Mendenhall turns into a complete RB that gets 1500 yds a year then we will have missed big on someone who will cost a lot less than the money Barber wants. That's the fear. While Jones may become a lot more complete back than many think, I think it far fetched, right now, to think he will be the complete back Mendenhall is thought of.

I agree there is less chance about a RB controversy with the pick of Jones, but the player's problem. I don't see that being a big deal.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

My biggest disappointment was the Jenkins pick. Out of the top 8 or so cornerbacks, he was the one guy I didn't want. Every report I read talked about his inconsistency and his lack of ball skills.

Actually quite the opposite, they said out of all the C.B.'s in this draft that what seperated Jenkins was he had the best BALL SKILLS out of all of them!
I don't know, all I know he was a consensus top 20 pick and no one had him rated lower then 20 and we picked him at #25 so that's GREAT VALUE in my bood, same goes fo Bennett who was a top 50 by most people picked later and Choice rated in most top 100 also, so we got GREAT VALUE with all our picks including Scandrick, so I'm happy based on the VALUE of each pick even if that meant they went off the board for Jones cause jones was the better FIT!
Bottom line, we are gonna sign Barber to a 5 year deal, and Felix Jones FITS our team better then Mendenhall with Barber on the team, so I really can't fault them for picking Jones even if Mendenhall was rated a little higher if they feel Jones is the better fit for our team!
We got great value with all our picks IMO and we also Added Pacman Jones in this draft PLUS added a 3rd and 4th rounder next year!

So when you can add a 3rd and 4th rounder in the following draft, get TWO top 20 players, and get value with all your other picks AND get a former 24 year old #6 overall pick for cheap contract in Pacman, it's a GOOD DAY!

 

[Sarge]

Chief is one of my favorite all time posters here and he makes a GREAT point about "what's the point of having a draft board if you're going to ignore it."

I totally agree with Chief's sentiment on the Felix/Mendenhall pick.

However, I predicted the Felix pick at 22 (look it up), so I am not disappointed there. Would I have picked Mendenhall over Felix.........YES. I didn't see it coming the way it did.......did anyone?

However, I am very comfortable with Felix and how he fits here.

Jenkins........I simply think he's a GREAT pick where we grabbed him....no question about it. I am 100% on board with this pick.

I agree with Chief that it is TOTALLY disturbing that Jerry ignored his own board. He (we) is very lucky it turned out the way it did.

In essence, I am happy with how it turned out, but I agree with Chief to the extent that I am concerned with Jerry and the way he handles the draft in the future.

IMO, we lucked out here.........to ignore your OWN board is inexcusable.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

well to be fair, from what has been noted, the Rams had the DT from LSU rated higher but took Chris Long instead.

:fact: :beer2: Truth be told.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

That's simply not true. He had a good, solid O-line with two pro bowl players in Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover. He also played with receivers like Johnnie Morton, Herman Moore, and Brett Perriman.

Barry was one of the best runners of all times and certainly a HOF. But what made him so great, was also a detriment. As an O-lineman, you'd hate to block for him because you don't know what he was going to do.



He wouldn't have been nearly as effective as Emmitt was, or put up the numbers that he did with Detroit.

To begin with, he would have made Moose useless because he couldn't run behind a FB. He had a heck of a FB blocking for him in 1996, Cory Schlesinger, but since his style was basically " go where the wind takes you ", it didn't last long nor was he as effective.

Also Barry was the type of running back who could break 2 fifty yards runs, then have 18 carries for 30 yards, or make a spectacular run for a net of 4 yards, and come out on goal line situations because he wasn't really an inside the tackles RB.

Bingo, I don't have Barry in my top 50 R.b.'s in NFL history, becaue I can't name ONE R.B. in the top 100 R.B.'s of all time who they TAKE OUT OF THE GAME on shirt yardage and Goal line plays EXCEPT BARRY, and he hurts your TEAM because as you said he'll get 2 long runs of 50 yards, and then the rest of the game have 20 carries for 16 yards, but end up with 116 yards on the stat sheet yet he put his team in 3rd and long ALL GAME and didn't move the chains AND came out of the game on short yardage and goal line plays!

 

[ThatsmyQB]

:fact: :beer2: Truth be told.

Exactly, you also have to go with who fits YOUR NEEDS!
I'm sure all 3 teams ahead of Oakland had McFadden rated higher too probably!
There's NO WAY on EARTH that everyone in round 1 picked their top rated player at each spot, in fact I bet it wasn't even CLOSE!
LOL

 

[Tobal]

Does the part about Mendenhal sulking and not working as a backup have any effect on your decisions?

 

[dwmyers]

Metcalf ended up with a 14(if my quick match is accurate) year NFL career and if we get that from Jones that's great imho.

Getting Terry Metcalf and Eric Metcalf mixed up? The comparison was with Eric, who was a shadow of Terry.

 

[dwmyers]

The problem with the Felix Jones pick was this.

We were most successful last year when Julius Jones started and was allowed to beat up the defense for about a half. Then Barber would come in and finish the defender off. This was not the optimal use of Julius, as tired teams are more apt to miss and more apt to give up the big yards. It was, however, the optimal use of Barber, who had a killer instinct against weakening teams.

Whatever you think of Julius, can Felix fill this role? Can he give us 10-15 plays a game, running into the teeth of tough defenses? Or is he a pure complement, useful only when he and Barber both play?

If he can't fill this role, If he is, at best, a wingback nee change-of-pace back then we wasted a draft pick on what is a luxury.

Mendenhall could have started and Barber could have finished. I don't think there is any question.

David.

 

[RCowboyFan]

1) The only player, IMO, who can truly make or break a team's SB run is a quarterback, even if the overall talent around him is elite.

2) Re: the jags, they've always had a running back that could carry the load. But during Taylor's more injury-filled years, the team had talent issues. We can agree to disagree that Taylor's injuries hamstrung the team from making a run.

Clearly you are missing the point here. I never said Taylor was reason for Jaguars not winning a lot of games. But he did contribute to it, even then, thats not the point I am trying to make, i.e. one specific team.

I said, you can say one player can be the reason for a winning or losing. FOr cowboys it was arguabaly, like we know now, it was most like Michael Irvin.

Clearly, Baltimore disagrees with your notion that QB can be the only reason for winning or losing or winning a SB. One can with Avg SB, you just cannot make multiple runs at SB.

Anyway, I think we both are arguing two different things seems like. You are stuck on perticular player and I am not saying anything specific to Taylor.

 

[InmanRoshi]

While I understand your concern based on those comments, but I don't find those comments as egregious as you do. I look at that as something you tell any growing player, especially one who supposedly has alot of talent and potential. You want to maximize their potential as much as you can, because some people are always more self-motivated than others. I think we'll find out soon enough how much motivation he really needs...

My problems came with this...

...
Jenkins had a sub-par junior campaign, starting the first 12 games at right cornerback, but played as a reserve vs. East Carolina in the Papajohns.com Bowl. He made just 27 tackles (18 solo) with a forced fumble, a fumble recovery and an interception. He batted away fifteen passes and gained 27 yards on two kickoff returns.

..

I don't think any player drafted in the Top 25 or so should be relegated to a "reserve" by his junior year for a team that's playing in the Papajohns.com Bowl. He should be the superstar and a man amongst boys in the Papajohns.com bowl, not sitting on the bench. That tells me he's not exactly an over-achiever. Even Marcus Spars was a superstar on a National Championship LSU team and was dominating OU in the Sugarbowl. And Mayock says he watched 5 or 6 game tapes of him, and a couple of game tapes he looks like a top 10 pick and another couple of game tapes he wouldn't take him in the 3rd round ... that just seems to be his M.O.

The thing is, I never saw anyone rank Mike Jenkins as a top prospect heading into this season (I guess for good reason, since he had been benched the previous year). Then South Florida is undefeated and starts becoming a media darling and moves up to #2 in the polls, and you can almost see everyone standing around thinking "They're #2 in the polls, they gotta have someone that can play in the NFL.". Then Mike Jenkins goes from someone nobody has heard from to a Top 10 pick literally overnight, even after South Florida comes crashing back down to earh. . I just don't think he has the career body of work that warrants it. Benched his junior year. 6 INT's in 40 starts? Frankly, there were guys taken in the late 2nd round that I thought were more deserving (Terrence Wheatley).

Again, just my opinion. Time will tell.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Isn't it funny on the innernet how a topic like Chief's can morph into discussions about Fred Taylor and Barry Sanders' offensive line?

Anyway...

Chief, I thought your concern was going to be about all the trading... That was insane. I think Jerry just sees that as part of persona, the same way he always has to remind us how much of a risk-taker he is. I also think he makes up his mind that "I'm going to get back those picks I traded away" beforehand, without consideration to who is on the board -- just like in '06 when he had to have that 4th back that he'd given away in the Canty trade.

I really don't have a problem with the individual picks, and I do feel like we went by our board instead of reaching for predetermined positions (outside of the 1st round), as evidenced by taking positions that we really didn't critically need. We did pass on WR all day, after all.

I actually can buy their decision process on the RBs. Look at it this way: If Parcells were choosing between a "higher-rated" smaller LB and one of his bigger prototypes, he'd take the so-called lesser-rated player every time. Why? Because he wants to play a certain style. Everyone accepts that, and no one criticizes him for it. Now, if there's a wide disparity in ranking, that wouldn't apply. But if it's close, I don't see why you shouldn't take a player that you feel fits your team better.

One thing that does worry me was a clip of Werder yesterday before the draft saying that Jerry had instructed his scouts to not go for backups or just solid guys, but people talented enough to knock those starters out of there. I think that's when the old bad Jerry resurfaces -- the one that is so optimistic, he only sees the positives and upside of everyone, and ignores the downsides. I think that's when you get the Bryants and Rosses, and I agree with you that I hope Jenkins isn't another one of those.

It's funny, I see some people going ballistic that Jenkins was our only good pick, and Felix and Bennett could be busts. I'm just the opposite -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Jenkins was the one that didn't work out.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I was quite pleased with our draft. I don't know why there is so much whinning and complaining. There wasn't a WR in the late second, or third, rounds that was was going to do anything more than be a back up. You weren't going to get anyone who would take the #2 WR position away from Crayton.

 

[RainMan]

The problem with the Felix Jones pick was this.

We were most successful last year when Julius Jones started and was allowed to beat up the defense for about a half. Then Barber would come in and finish the defender off. This was not the optimal use of Julius, as tired teams are more apt to miss and more apt to give up the big yards. It was, however, the optimal use of Barber, who had a killer instinct against weakening teams.

Whatever you think of Julius, can Felix fill this role? Can he give us 10-15 plays a game, running into the teeth of tough defenses? Or is he a pure complement, useful only when he and Barber both play?

If he can't fill this role, If he is, at best, a wingback nee change-of-pace back then we wasted a draft pick on what is a luxury.

Mendenhall could have started and Barber could have finished. I don't think there is any question.

David.

Just to throw some stats out there (not sure who's argument this supports):

Barber's quarter-by-quarter stats last year:

Quarters Att Yds Avg Lng TD 1st
1st Quarter 41 225 5.5 36 1 10
2nd Quarter58 248 4.3 37 6 13
3rd Quarter 49 225 4.6 23 1 12
4th Quarter 83 406 4.9 54 3 20

Is my math right ... that means he averaged about 9 carries per game over the first three quarters?

 

[Eskimo]

Isn't it funny on the innernet how a topic like Chief's can morph into discussions about Fred Taylor and Barry Sanders' offensive line?

Anyway...

Chief, I thought your concern was going to be about all the trading... That was insane. I think Jerry just sees that as part of persona, the same way he always has to remind us how much of a risk-taker he is. I also think he makes up his mind that "I'm going to get back those picks I traded away" beforehand, without consideration to who is on the board -- just like in '06 when he had to have that 4th back that he'd given away in the Canty trade.

I really don't have a problem with the individual picks, and I do feel like we went by our board instead of reaching for predetermined positions (outside of the 1st round), as evidenced by taking positions that we really didn't critically need. We did pass on WR all day, after all.

I actually can buy their decision process on the RBs. Look at it this way: If Parcells were choosing between a "higher-rated" smaller LB and one of his bigger prototypes, he'd take the so-called lesser-rated player every time. Why? Because he wants to play a certain style. Everyone accepts that, and no one criticizes him for it. Now, if there's a wide disparity in ranking, that wouldn't apply. But if it's close, I don't see why you shouldn't take a player that you feel fits your team better.

One thing that does worry me was a clip of Werder yesterday before the draft saying that Jerry had instructed his scouts to not go for backups or just solid guys, but people talented enough to knock those starters out of there. I think that's when the old bad Jerry resurfaces -- the one that is so optimistic, he only sees the positives and upside of everyone, and ignores the downsides. I think that's when you get the Bryants and Rosses, and I agree with you that I hope Jenkins isn't another one of those.

It's funny, I see some people going ballistic that Jenkins was our only good pick, and Felix and Bennett could be busts. I'm just the opposite -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Jenkins was the one that didn't work out.

It is one of those things with Jenkins. He is the guy we liked above all the others. I don't know if we're right or wrong but you've got to be happy to get the top CB at the #25 slot in the draft.

It's not like we're the only one who had a high grade on Jenkins. He was widey considered to be in the top tier with DRC, McKelvin and Talib.

 

[alancdc]

Some had Jenkins going as high as 7. The guy is a player, and so is Jones.

 

[FLcowboy]

Chief,

Jerry said that Felix and Rashard M. were rated even on their board. Besides, Mendenhall has one year under his belt, Felix has 3, T. Choice has 3, also Mendenhall was kept on the sidelines by a guy that went undrafted last season, so think about that, while you are venting.

And, would Mendenhall compliment Barber's style, or simply mirror it?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It is one of those things with Jenkins. He is the guy we liked above all the others. I don't know if we're right or wrong but you've got to be happy to get the top CB at the #25 slot in the draft.

It's not like we're the only one who had a high grade on Jenkins. He was widey considered to be in the top tier with DRC, McKelvin and Talib.

Yes, and some people whose opinion I respect really like him... So I'm going to hope he matures a little with some pro coaching. Which certainly can happen.

I guess the ghost of Derek Ross still haunts. :

 

[Eskimo]

Yes, and some people whose opinion I respect really like him... So I'm going to hope he matures a little with some pro coaching. Which certainly can happen.

I guess the ghost of Derek Ross still haunts. :

Don't bring up his name again. Please.

To think we got him and Bryant in the same draft.