Spagnola: This Guy (Leary) On The Cowboys Offensive Line Radar

[SportsGuru80]

I think Leary has a very good chance at starting...

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Biggest Cowboys shill there is: Mickey Spagnola.

This has nothing to do with Leary, but Spagnola is just the ultimate shill. A broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean Mickey isn't being a shill here. Leary could turn out great, but that won't change anything.

Spags sees football through the mentality of a 10 year old boy.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You have to remember Parcells inherited the team with Flo about to hit his peak and Gurode who he removed from Center where he belonged. There were about 7-8 Pro Bowls right there. He also had Larry Allen who he dumped who went on to play at a Pro Bowl level for SF for a couple of years to finish out his career. He did good to steal Kosier in FA and after multiple tries finally lucked into resurrecting Colombo off the scrap heap but he was also the guy who wasted all that money on Rivera. I also don't think any of the OLs under Parcells was great.

Now also remember that Parcells drafted Jacob Rogers and Al Johnson in consecutive drafts in the second round and basically busted on both. Rogers was an epic bust who didn't even make the team after his second preseason. He drafted Stephen Peterman in the 3rd and then dumped him the next year only to have him become a solid OG for the Lions for a decade.

BP was far from some OL saviour. He started with way more talent than Garrett who got only a bunch of overpaid, degenerating vets that he had to cut at the cost of tons of dead money on the cap (Bigg, Colombo, Gurode, Kosier). There were no backups off the 2010 team worth much and Costa is the only one that is still around. So the cupboard was bare - no vets, no developing prospects and no money to go out and buy the players he needed and no offseason to work on fixing the problems.

I do think Garrett has recognized the problem. Jerry went 20 years without drafting an OL in the 1st round and then does it twice in three years - it sounds to me like Garrett has gotten through to Jones on this. If it weren't for Rob Ryan we may not have made that idiotic trade with the Rams to draft Mo. I don't have anything bad to say about the player but we could have gotten a decent CB later and at the time of the pick we still had OScan, Jenkins and Carr under contract so it wasn't a gigantic immediate need. He just over-values CBs and Ryan was whispering into his ears about delivering a top defense so long as he had the CBs to implement his "scheme". Well he got his CBs and they were healthy but the defense still disappointed. Now with Ryan gone we wisely invested OL again although it was a shame the run on OL made us miss out on Jon Cooper and led us to draft Frederick in the first instead of the second where most mockers had placed him but I don't mind the pick. It is crucial to give Romo more protection and to fix the running game.

I think we mostly now just need a bit of time and health and continued gradual investments in the OL to elevate the unit and continue its development into a strength on the team. No matter what Garrett did it was going to take some time to fix the problems on the OL given the minimal resources and those resources focused mostly on the CB position. I do think there are enough good pieces in place to put out an average OL to above average OL this year so long as we have health. One more addition to the unit either by development of a prospect or adding another premium pick should be enough to propel us into the much above average category if Tryon, TFred and Parnell develop as I expect them to.

This is my fault, but i kind of pulled away from the discussion of the OL, and i was referencing the talent level that both coaches have brought to the team as a whole.

 

[Stash]

We need to invest in the OL! We haven't invested in the OL!

Oh we spent 2 1st rounders in 3 years and paid 8M a year for the hottest FA tackle right before that.....and have a ton of competition at the other two interior lineman spots?!?

Whatever....we need to invest in the OL! We haven't invested in the OL!

This really is the height of stupidity.

Where did I say that?

I'm thrilled the went O-line again this year, they really needed to.

But do I feel they did enough? No.

While I feel they shored up the interior, I feel they had the opportunity to upgrade at right tackle and did not.

 

[burmafrd]

You have to remember Parcells inherited the team with Flo about to hit his peak and Gurode who he removed from Center where he belonged. There were about 7-8 Pro Bowls right there. He also had Larry Allen who he dumped who went on to play at a Pro Bowl level for SF for a couple of years to finish out his career. He did good to steal Kosier in FA and after multiple tries finally lucked into resurrecting Colombo off the scrap heap but he was also the guy who wasted all that money on Rivera. I also don't think any of the OLs under Parcells was great.

Now also remember that Parcells drafted Jacob Rogers and Al Johnson in consecutive drafts in the second round and basically busted on both. Rogers was an epic bust who didn't even make the team after his second preseason. He drafted Stephen Peterman in the 3rd and then dumped him the next year only to have him become a solid OG for the Lions for a decade.

BP was far from some OL saviour. He started with way more talent than Garrett who got only a bunch of overpaid, degenerating vets that he had to cut at the cost of tons of dead money on the cap (Bigg, Colombo, Gurode, Kosier). There were no backups off the 2010 team worth much and Costa is the only one that is still around. So the cupboard was bare - no vets, no developing prospects and no money to go out and buy the players he needed and no offseason to work on fixing the problems.

I do think Garrett has recognized the problem. Jerry went 20 years without drafting an OL in the 1st round and then does it twice in three years - it sounds to me like Garrett has gotten through to Jones on this. If it weren't for Rob Ryan we may not have made that idiotic trade with the Rams to draft Mo. I don't have anything bad to say about the player but we could have gotten a decent CB later and at the time of the pick we still had OScan, Jenkins and Carr under contract so it wasn't a gigantic immediate need. He just over-values CBs and Ryan was whispering into his ears about delivering a top defense so long as he had the CBs to implement his "scheme". Well he got his CBs and they were healthy but the defense still disappointed. Now with Ryan gone we wisely invested OL again although it was a shame the run on OL made us miss out on Jon Cooper and led us to draft Frederick in the first instead of the second where most mockers had placed him but I don't mind the pick. It is crucial to give Romo more protection and to fix the running game.

I think we mostly now just need a bit of time and health and continued gradual investments in the OL to elevate the unit and continue its development into a strength on the team. No matter what Garrett did it was going to take some time to fix the problems on the OL given the minimal resources and those resources focused mostly on the CB position. I do think there are enough good pieces in place to put out an average OL to above average OL this year so long as we have health. One more addition to the unit either by development of a prospect or adding another premium pick should be enough to propel us into the much above average category if Tryon, TFred and Parnell develop as I expect them to.

love the interpretation here.

Peterman was never more than mediocre. He just looked better at Detroit for a while due to how bad the rest were.

LA was a shell of himself after his injury. With the cap situation and everything else it was time for him to go. If you think that the Pro Bowls were anything but reputation in SF then you are truly blind.

The Only O lineman BP picked that the scouts disagreed with was Rogers- that one was all on him.

Johnson- he turned out unable to maintain his playing weight- not something that was really evident when drafted. We were desperate at Guard and that is why BP put Gurode there; a mistake in hindsight but nowhere near as bad as YOU WANT TO PAINT IT.

NO ONE wanted Colombo but BP. And he gave us 4 very good years 2006-2009 until his last injury. BUT once again you want to minimize it to take down BP. Pretty sad

 

[speedkilz88]

Al Johnson had a degenerative knee. Had microfracture but never had the strength after.

 

[Risen Star]

It's always easiest to take the negative slant... always, because you're going to be right far more often than you are wrong. If I wanted the instant "feel good" I'd take the negative slant every time also.

Actually, it's hard to take the negative slant when you're a fan of a team run properly. It's easy to take it with Jerry Jones.

I don't try to take the negative slant. I try to take the realistic one.

 

[burmafrd]

Al Johnson had a degenerative knee. Had microfracture but never had the strength after.

that came later. As I recall he got caught using stuff; would not surprise me that the stuff might have had something to do with his knee as well.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Actually, it's hard to take the negative slant when you're a fan of a team run properly. It's easy to take it with Jerry Jones.

I don't try to take the negative slant. I try to take the realistic one.

I never want to judge a man's intent....but that's a lie.

You still parrot that line that this administration doesn't value the offensive line in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

And then when one points out the investments in the line...not only do you ignore them but you won't give JG credit for his role in selecting those lineman. But yet you don't seem to give the Jones' credit either.

I'm trying to keep it real...you won't even keep it realistic.

 

[speedkilz88]

that came later. As I recall he got caught using stuff; would not surprise me that the stuff might have had something to do with his knee as well.

I believe you are thinking about Clay Shiver. He ended up with Atlanta and then got caught for steroids. Al Johnson had a simple scope one day early on and they found out his cartilage was shot from an old college injury. He came back (microfracture surgery) but was never the same.

 

[5Stars]

I never want to judge a man's intent....but that's a lie.

You still parrot that line that this administration doesn't value the offensive line in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

And then when one points out the investments in the line...not only do you ignore them but you won't give JG credit for his role in selecting those lineman. But yet you don't seem to give the Jones' credit either.

I'm trying to keep it real...you won't even keep it realistic.

Very well said...

 

[burmafrd]

I believe you are thinking about Clay Shiver. He ended up with Atlanta and then got caught for steroids. Al Johnson had a simple scope one day early on and they found out his cartilage was shot from an old college injury. He came back (microfracture surgery) but was never the same.

one of our O linemen from that period got caught with either steroids or PEDs later on. Thought it was Johnson.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Where's the improvement on the field? We had talent when Parcells came in and ran a few drafts for us as well, and with that talent we got to the postseason finally and, hey, actually won a postseason game.

Now, im ok with saying we certainly have some talented young players on this roster right now.. and that is awesome.

Now its time to see some tangible on field results.. that's where we are in this process. He's got another year or two at the most.. hopefully we see some kind of improvement on the field now, because there hasn't been much of that to this point from the "Cupcake Era".

Btw.. i like alot of things about JG, as well. Im also rooting for him, but not going to be unrealistic about things. This year we have the best chance so far to see some real improvement on the field. However, if we don't see it this season, im not sure we're going to see it.

Would like to see a response to this post by Toruk..


Also, mentioned about "knuckleheads"? Before, we had guys who complained that they wanted the ball more.

Now, we have guys that get in a car wasted and drive and kill people, or get in heated arguments with sports reporters. Has it really gotten better in that regard?

 

[Primetime42]

one of our O linemen from that period got caught with either steroids or PEDs later on. Thought it was Johnson.

It wasn't Johnson. It was Matt Lehr. Johnson had knee issues almost from the jump.

 

[speedkilz88]

It wasn't Johnson. It was Matt Lehr. Johnson had knee issues almost from the jump.

That's the guy.

 

[xwalker]

It wasn't Johnson. It was Matt Lehr. Johnson had knee issues almost from the jump.

I would be very tempted to use PEDs if I was a borderline NFL player.

I wonder how the off-season drug testing works. If there is 3 months of no-testing, then a guy like Arkin should max out on roids during that time. Yes, he would lose much of what he gained initially when he quits; however, it is easier/faster to regain muscle mass than it was to achieve it initially. Arkin should also max out on HGH as long as they're not testing for it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Also, mentioned about "knuckleheads"? Before, we had guys who complained that they wanted the ball more.

Now, we have guys that get in a car wasted and drive and kill people, or get in heated arguments with sports reporters. Has it really gotten better in that regard?

That was an unfortunate incident. But surely you don't use that as a referendum on the entire organizational structure.

Yes, I think it has gotten better in that regard. I think we have a team that is more dedicated to football and each other than we have seen in some time. Does that make them less human? Less prone to making mistakes? I say no. You?

Where's the improvement on the field? We had talent when Parcells came in and ran a few drafts for us as well, and with that talent we got to the postseason finally and, hey, actually won a postseason game.

Now, im ok with saying we certainly have some talented young players on this roster right now.. and that is awesome.

Now its time to see some tangible on field results.. that's where we are in this process. He's got another year or two at the most.. hopefully we see some kind of improvement on the field now, because there hasn't been much of that to this point from the "Cupcake Era".

Btw.. i like alot of things about JG, as well. Im also rooting for him, but not going to be unrealistic about things. This year we have the best chance so far to see some real improvement on the field. However, if we don't see it this season, im not sure we're going to see it.

What response to this do you want? I too am ready to see progress on the field. In fact I have seen progress on the field. And yes the rope grows shorter for anyone who doesn't win in the NFL. I want it to work with JG. I like how he has constructed the roster. How he conducts himself and how the players respect him. So i'm an unabashed supporter. Taking a leap of faith if you will.

Having said that who here didn't witness the decimation of the entire defense hold us back? Who didn't watch as our offensive lineman never came together with good health dating back to training camp?

People may call these excuses but I call them the reality of the situation. Last year we were unlucky when it came to injuries. We have had seasons where we were abnormally lucky in the same regard.

With good health, continued player development and maturation from our coaching staff I am cautiously optimistic about what this team can achieve. We control 2 of those 3 things. And when I look at our coaching staff I see talent everywhere. When I look at our young players I see them growing into the next generation of Cowboys stars. Can they take the next step? Don't know. But i'll be there watching...same as you.

 

[burmafrd]

That's the guy.

yeah. Now who was the player we had back then that could not keep his weight up for the whole season and got too light at the end?

I am thinking that was Johnson but not so sure now. Been a long time and frankly they were never good enough back then to remember much about them.

Sadly to say right now you could say the same thing about the O line.

Back then after LA went we had basically the LT as the only reliable O line player.

 

[Eskimo]

love the interpretation here.

Peterman was never more than mediocre. He just looked better at Detroit for a while due to how bad the rest were.

LA was a shell of himself after his injury. With the cap situation and everything else it was time for him to go. If you think that the Pro Bowls were anything but reputation in SF then you are truly blind.

The Only O lineman BP picked that the scouts disagreed with was Rogers- that one was all on him.

Johnson- he turned out unable to maintain his playing weight- not something that was really evident when drafted. We were desperate at Guard and that is why BP put Gurode there; a mistake in hindsight but nowhere near as bad as YOU WANT TO PAINT IT.

NO ONE wanted Colombo but BP. And he gave us 4 very good years 2006-2009 until his last injury. BUT once again you want to minimize it to take down BP. Pretty sad

No, the previous poster talked about BP doing a much better job than Garrett with the OL. I just pointed out that BP had much better players when he started here, had more cap space to use and still took a long time to put together a decent OL. It was only really in his 4th season here that we had a good OL with Flo, Kosier, Gurode, Rivera on his last legs and Colombo. The previous years they were definitely below average. You don't remember BP trotting out Torrin Tucker and Rob Petitti after Flo's knee injury? I do and it was pretty sorry.

I think Garrett has struggled with his OL too but it is more understandable given where he started and what investments he got to make. You have to give him a bit of time to straighten out the mess he inherited.

I expect we will have a slightly above average OL by the end of the season so long as our health holds up, Tyron picks up where he left off and TFred hits the ground running. This would not be much off BP's trajectory with his OL once he took over in 2003. It was really only his 4th season that he managed to turn his OL around. In reality this is Garrett's 3rd season where he got a chance to bring in players so if he turns it around this year he will be ahead of BP's pace.

I have nothing against BP and think he did a reasonable job. I just continue to be upset about him converting us to 3-4 and investing a lot in that scheme without ever giving us a dominant defense. I always wonder what we might have been if we just stayed 4-3 and put in Ware at RDE. I do like the job he did getting Romo ready to play, getting Witten to focus on being an all-around TE and getting Ware to focus on being an all-around OLB. He brought a culture of hard work and player discipline that unfortunately went South quickly once Wade took over. I really wish BP stayed one more year and just hired himself a new DC to fix the defensive issues. That always left a sour taste in my mouth that he left early but took so long to make up his mind after the season ended that all the top HC candidates had already been picked over.

 

[Randy White]

In some ways the Dallas O Line of the 90's have been a long running curse. That line convinced Jerruh he never really had to invest in serious high draft picks on the O line. At least not 1st rd picks and high second round picks. Not just picks but real high standards.

Perhas that's because one of it's members said it best:

" Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin made me a Pro Bowl player "... Nate Newton.