News: ST: Cowboys QB coach Wade Wilson takes personal leave

[Stash]

We're in a loop. The team loses for more reasons than the backup QB, and if it didn't, you still have zero to support your guess that the problem is the QB coaching and not the QBs who have not been impressive and have not cost us much to have on the roster.

Sure thing. Blame it on all of the different players who have come through here, not the one coach who has somehow remained a constant during the clear pattern of failure.

I don't remember you presenting many relevant facts in this debate before. I do remember talking about helping develop Rex Grossman into a player who could get you to a Superbowl meant little to you. Basically, it was another one of those where you weren't going to let the evidence, or lack thereof, get in the way of your opinion. So anybody who disagreed was a blind homer.

Great reversal attempt. Fail. The rest of the forum knows the score. That's good enough for me.

At any rate, if anybody has reasons to believe Wilson is a bad coach that aren't completely prejudiced and circumstantial, I'm listening. I don't have a dog in the fight, I'd just like the fight to be fair.

I've been there, and done that. I don't need to make the effort again, especially for someone who'll just dismiss the facts anyway in a rush to continue to defend lousy coaches for their poor results.

Always the players' fault. Despite the fact that the majority of these coaches haven't accomplished anything anywhere.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am. The sixth different lousy, unprepared losing backup clinched it for me.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me six times...

They were mostly UDFA. Orton and Kitna were prepared just fine. Weeden was a misevaluation and that blame goes wide if you insist on it. McGee just wasn't very good. He was benched at ATM as well. Cassell was picked up week 1.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but I am going to keep an open mind about Showers and Dak.

 

[Stash]

They were mostly UDFA. Orton and Kitna were prepared just fine.

If by "fine", you mean terrible, sure. Nobody wins here outside of Romo, who overcomes the coaching. Kitna is held in such high regard because he's the only guy who wasn't abysmal. Orton' career record for Dallas is a robust 0-1. He hit paid to sit on the bench and he lost the one start where we needed him.

Weeden was a misevaluation and that blame goes wide if you insist on it.

Plenty to go around, Wilson every bit as much as anyone.

McGee just wasn't very good. He was benched at ATM as well.

And he never got any better after several years under Wilson. Just like Dustin Vaughn didn't. And Brandon Weeden didn't. The pattern is clear.

Cassell was picked up week 1.

And I'm sure that Wilson wasn't kicking and screaming against it. None of the quarterbacks who were brought in are done so in a vacuum, without input from the coaching staff. These repeated failures are a reflection of all of their failings.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but I am going to keep an open mind about Showers and Dak.

My mind is open on both too. Hopefully, they'll both be able to overcome the coaching shortcomings they're receiving. I have much more faith in Romo helping to coach them than anyone else here.

 

[Idgit]

Sure thing. Blame it on all of the different players who have come through here, not the one coach who has somehow remained a constant during the clear pattern of failure.

Great reversal attempt. Fail. The rest of the forum knows the score. That's good enough for me.

I've been there, and done that. I don't need to make the effort again, especially for someone who'll just dismiss the facts anyway in a rush to continue to defend lousy coaches for their poor results.

Always the players' fault. Despite the fact that the majority of these coaches haven't accomplished anything anywhere.

It usually is the players' fault in the NFL. That's kind of how the league works and has always worked. The forum may or may not know the score in that regard, it's hard to tell. It doesn't make it any less true.

I agree, let's not go round again if you don't have a better argument. Given we've got Romo, Garrett, Linehan, and Wilson in the organization right now, adequate QB experience for developing a good young player is about the last thing I'm concerned about. Especially when I don't believe the next starting QB is probably even on the roster.

 

[jobberone]

Who? None of them win here. Not a one! Even the one win they licked into last year was a Desean Jackson gift fumble. Every one if the quarterbacks not named Romo hit the field unprepared. And they lose. That's a big part of Wilson's job too. And a key failure.

You've got a short memory. It's not just victories either but how well they play and execute the plan. Your emphasis or actually only criteria of wins might be the worse part of it. Wins are a team production although I'll grant you an elite QB can push things over the top and make a huge difference.

Kitna and Orton both played reasonably well to refresh your memory; esp Kitna.

 

[Stash]

It usually is the players' fault in the NFL. That's kind of how the league works and has always worked. The forum may or may not know the score in that regard, it's hard to tell. It doesn't make it any less true.

Yeah, never the coaches' fault. I guess Campo should still be here then, right? No coach in this team's history had less player talent to work with than he did. Sorry coach Dave!

I agree, let's not go round again if you don't have a better argument.

I need no better argument other than Wade Wilson's resume. And the fact that the best coach this team had during Wilson's coaching career sent him packing as soon as he arrived and he only came back after the Hall of Fame coach left town.

Given we've got Romo, Garrett, Linehan, and Wilson in the organization right now, adequate QB experience for developing a good young player is about the last thing I'm concerned about. Especially when I don't believe the next starting QB is probably even on the roster.

Not if these coaches are involved, no.

It's funny that you're trying to give a coach who's had 15 years in the role an 'Incomplete'.

But we can agree that neither of us have any interest in rehashing this well-covered debate.

 

[rpntex]

I'll go by results. And the fact that none of these coaches can adequately prepare any quarterbacks other than Romo. The pattern is clear, the losses are clear, the awful results are clear. People can try to hide in some grey area if they want to, but the fact is that based on results, that grey area doesn't exist.

In all fairness, Stash, who have they had an opportunity to develop? Stephen McGee was a 4th-round pick, but heck, he was benched in college and (IMO) had no business being drafted at all. Aside from him, this staff hasn't had a QB to develop. Dustan Vaughan was a 7th-rounder, but seriously, isn't that a clear case of trying to make the proverbial "silk purse from a sow's ear"? By the time they got their hands on Weeden/Cassell/, they were pretty much what they were already. I'm not insinuating they are good at this particular skill, just that they haven't the opportunity to prove they're bad at it.

in my opinion, Dak is only the second QB they've had a chance to truly develop. The others were all more like teaching an old dog new tricks. It's pretty obvious that Garrett and company aren't going anywhere, so let's see what they do with Dak. At least he had the resume and physical tools to build upon. Let's see if they can help him do it.

 

[rpntex]

I have been fighting cancer since 2010. I get IVIG blood plasma treament every month. I have diabetes, Aortic Aneurysm, Spinal stenosis. and other issues so cry me a river. I am not insensitive as I was not serious with the comment.

My apologies, and I am sorry for what you're going through. It would have helped to know, however, that your post was toungue-in-cheek. It didn't read that way.

My fault for overreacting, nonetheless.

 

[MRV52]

My apologies, and I am sorry for what you're going through. It would have helped to know, however, that your post was toungue-in-cheek. It didn't read that way.

My fault for overreacting, nonetheless.

No problem its all good. God bless!!! Go Cowboys!!!

 

[Stash]

You've got a short memory.

Do tell.

It's not just victories either but how well they play and execute the plan. Your emphasis or actually only criteria of wins might be the worse part of it. Wins are a team production although I'll grant you an elite QB can push things over the top and make a huge difference.

Kitna and Orton both played reasonably well to refresh your memory; esp Kitna.

You win or you lose, there are no participation trophies. It's sad that Kitna's 4-5 record in Dallas is considered the benchmark.

 

[Stash]

In all fairness, Stash, who have they had an opportunity to develop? Stephen McGee was a 4th-round pick, but heck, he was benched in college and (IMO) had no business being drafted at all. Aside from him, this staff hasn't had a QB to develop. Dustan Vaughan was a 7th-rounder, but seriously, isn't that a clear case of trying to make the proverbial "silk purse from a sow's ear"? By the time they got their hands on Weeden/Cassell/, they were pretty much what they were already. I'm not insinuating they are good at this particular skill, just that they haven't the opportunity to prove they're bad at it.

I don't argue that the Cowboys organization hasn't put a lot of draft resources into the quarterback position, I don't think there's too much to debate there. But there's a lot more involved than just that part. There's also the part of identifying and obtaining and coaching up backups.

in my opinion, Dak is only the second QB they've had a chance to truly develop. The others were all more like teaching an old dog new tricks. It's pretty obvious that Garrett and company aren't going anywhere, so let's see what they do with Dak. At least he had the resume and physical tools to build upon. Let's see if they can help him do it.

I hope he succeeds, but I have more faith in Romo to teach him than anyone else.

 

[jobberone]

Do tell.



You win or you lose, there are no participation trophies. It's sad that Kitna's 4-5 record in Dallas is considered the benchmark.

You don't even know what to look for to evaluate. Players have good games in team loses every game. Ask Chuck Howley.

 

[Stash]

You don't even know what to look for to evaluate. Players have good games in team loses every game. Ask Chuck Howley.

Tell me about these "good games" you speak of. You're making claims with nothing substantiating them while trying to refute the fact that the quarterbacks have done nothing but lose for over 5 years.

 

[Idgit]

Yeah, never the coaches' fault. I guess Campo should still be here then, right? No coach in this team's history had less player talent to work with than he did. Sorry coach Dave!

I need no better argument other than Wade Wilson's resume. And the fact that the best coach this team had during Wilson's coaching career sent him packing as soon as he arrived and he only came back after the Hall of Fame coach left town.

Not if these coaches are involved, no.

It's funny that you're trying to give a coach who's had 15 years in the role an 'Incomplete'.

But we can agree that neither of us have any interest in rehashing this well-covered debate.

I never said its never the coaches fault. I said in this case there's no evidence the issue is with coaching.

And I didn't give him an incomplete. I'm pointing out you don't have sufficient access to his work to grade him fairly.

 

[gmoney112]

Before I make the assumption that a coach sucks or not, I look at what the players have gone to do after him. McGee is out of the NFL and Vaughn is a camp body for the Steelers

He may suck or he may not, the sample size isn't very conclusive either way

 

[Stash]

I never said its never the coaches fault. I said in this case there's no evidence the issue is with coaching.

And I didn't give him an incomplete. I'm pointing out you don't have sufficient access to his work to grade him fairly.

The performance of those under his charge is all the access I need. By your logic, I can never grade any coach and they all get a free pass.

 

[Stash]

Before I make the assumption that a coach sucks or not, I look at what the players have gone to do after him. McGee is out of the NFL and Vaughn is a camp body for the Steelers

He may suck or he may not, the sample size isn't very conclusive either way

15+ years is as big of a "sample size" as any coach could or should have.

If you don't know by now, shame on you.

 

[Primetime42]

I am. The sixth different lousy, unprepared losing backup clinched it for me.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me six times...

I get the anger stash, but you can't expect someone to make chicken salad out of chicken, you know.

I hardly think of Wilson as some Sean Payton clone, but I think he worked with what he had. I'm very interested to see what happens with Dak, but the vast majority of any QB who succeeds in this league succeeds because of his own abilities. The coaches only do so much.

 

[Stash]

I get the anger stash, but you can't expect someone to make chicken salad out of chicken, you know.

Believe it or not (based on my comments), I can give him some slack based on the fact that Dallas hasn't invested significantly via the draft. I don't hold the fact that he hasn't developed an heir apparent against him. What I do hold against him is the fact that none of these vets placed under his charge are even capable of winning a game or two when needed. His job is quarterback coach. That means all quarterbacks. Romo , the backups, and any young guys.

I have yet to see someone make strides under his tutelage or even play as well as they had before. What I always see are guys who look like shadows of their former selves and totally unprepared when called upon.

I hardly think of Wilson as some Sean Payton clone, but I think he worked with what he had. I'm very interested to see what happens with Dak, but the vast majority of any QB who succeeds in this league succeeds because of his own abilities. The coaches only do so much.

I disagree with that statement and feel it lets guys like Wilson completely off the hook. If the coach is that insignificant, he shouldn't be here.

Given the ineptitude and failure shown otherwise, I think it's fair to wonder if all of these offensive coaches aren't simply riding Romo for all he's worth to keep their jobs, and without him, they're exposed for what they truly are, terrible.

 

[jterrell]

The issue with Wade Wilson is that Tony Romo is his own QB Coach.
So his only real job is QB 2 and 3.
They have not proven to develop here. Wade hasn't championed anyone and he hasn't been a distraction but there's little to suggest his work has had any impact and thus it is very reasonable to question his value.

Nonetheless, I am fairly certain if this season goes poorly we will get an entirely new staff with zero holdovers.

And yes I'd rather have David Lee today than Wade Wilson as my QB Coach.

I'd rather have Sean Payton as HC/QB Coach then both Garrett and Wilson.