News: ST: The Cooper effect. How an unsatisfied Amari Cooper has improved the Cowboys offense

[TheMarathonContinues]

Or Erik Flowers, who the Giants took in the top ten. Or Morris Claiborne, who we took in the top ten.

Right. A lot of these first rounders are busts and never live up to their draft status.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I was against the trade initially, but I really like what I've seen from Cooper. Crisp routes, insane change of direction, and seems like a lunch-pail guy. He'll be good for whomever is the QB. I did not like the QB 2019 class anyway.

The only concerning issue is his agent really has us over a barrel for that extension. Unless we're willing to lose that pick for nothing, the man can set his price.

I was in the same boat. I didn’t like the deal. But I had no idea he was such a elite route runner.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Zeke was the top player on their board along with Bosa and Ramsey. Its been said if Bosa had slipped they would have taken him over Elliott.

LVE was the top player on their board.

Taco was their best DE left at the time and there was only one other player reported that had a #1 grade on him on the Cowboys board when they picked. So it's not like they picked Taco over a bunch of other positional players that they had a higher grade on.

So no, you haven't proved they draft for need and would have definitely taken a WR #1 next year.

Yep, the Cowboys draft BPA. It's not to say they don't factor positions in - they took Taco in 2017 because they figured there'd be more good DBs later on than good pass rushers, and this year they took Connor Williams over Justin Reid with similar grades (screwup) because they valued OL more after the Atlanta game. But at heart, McClay is a BPA value drafter.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Well the article you guys are creaming over has claimed the offense has been transformed under Cooper but in reality, to date, it's not been this huge difference.

And FWIW, I don't think it has anything to do with Cooper being overrated (he's not, he's a talented kid). I think our continual offensive issues/inconsistency lie elsewhere.

Creaming over? Really man?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yep, the Cowboys draft BPA. It's not to say they don't factor positions in - they took Taco in 2017 because they figured there'd be more good DBs later on than good pass rushers, and this year they took Connor Williams over Justin Reid with similar grades (screwup) because they valued OL more after the Atlanta game. But at heart, McClay is a BPA value drafter.

So they are BPA but you bring up two recent examples that go against that? Smh.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Third down Conversion %:

Before Cooper = 31%, (29th in the league)

(last three games) 50% (7th in the league)


The impact on Prescott:

His completion percentage before Cooper’s arrival was 62.1. It has been 69.7 since.

His quarterback rating was 87.4 before and is 96.4 after.

He averaged 202.4 passing yards per game before and is at 240.3 after.

His yards per attempt has gone up from 6.9 to 7.3.

And of course, the Cowboys have a 2-1 record.

This is what we call fooled by randomness.

Literally a 3 game sample size. Wherein team scoring has not changed . . Is somehow evidence of the success in forfeiting a first and giving out a huge contract to a guy so he can average 50 yards a game.

You believe what you want to believe brother.

 

[beware_d-ware]

So they are BPA but you bring up two recent examples that go against that? Smh.

Look at all the other examples under McClay...

-Martin was BPA
-Jones was a BPA type pick
-Gregory was BPA
-Zeke was BPA
-Jaylon was BPA
-LVE was BPA

They aren't blind to need, but talent comes first.

 

[Sydla]

Creaming over? Really man?

Hyperbole to prove a point. You guys think the offense has been transformed. It has not.

Largely because I am not sure and wasn't sure at the time that Cooper changed a big dynamic at play here.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

So they are BPA but you bring up two recent examples that go against that? Smh.

You draft in tiers. No team. Drafts solely off need. No team drafts solely on bpa.

This tired black and white notion is preposterous.

Think about it... Where in the history of the world has absolutism every been the right call?

 

[kumizi]

I was in the same boat. I didn’t like the deal. But I had no idea he was such a elite route runner.

Since you want to talk about facts. True or false?

Even with Cooper, Dallas is one of the worst 10 teams in the league in points scored and yardage.

 

[Denim Chicken]

This is what we call fooled by randomness.

Literally a 3 game sample size. Wherein team scoring has not changed . . Is somehow evidence of the success in forfeiting a first and giving out a huge contract to a guy so he can average 50 yards a game.

You believe what you want to believe brother.

Ok, but the three game sample would also apply to those that believe he has made no difference. The knife cuts both ways.

 

[Sydla]

Look at all the other examples under McClay...

-Martin was BPA
-Jones was a BPA type pick
-Gregory was BPA
-Zeke was BPA
-Jaylon was BPA
-LVE was BPA

They aren't blind to need, but talent comes first.

Exactly.

And the larger point is that it's impossible for anyone, including the Cowboys to know what position they were taking in the first round in 2019.

You have no idea how a draft is going to go, etc. As someone else noted, what would have happened if the Cowboys were sitting there at 18, for example, and the top S in the draft, a guy they had rated very high on their board and didn't think would fall to them did indeed fall? You telling me they are still going to reach for a WR? Of course not.

So if you want to defend the Cooper trade, fine. Talk about his skill set and how you like the risk of turning him back into a good WR over a rookie. But suggesting it's all a wash because we were going WR anyway for sure in Rd 1 in 2019 is just silliness, plain and simple.

 

[Sydla]

Ok, but the three game sample would also apply to those that believe he has made no difference. The knife cuts both ways.

Not really because in the end, the goal is to score points. If you suddenly start converting more 3rd downs but still are scoring roughly the same amount of points, how important then is that increase in 3rd down percentage? I guess it has an effect on your defense who might get more rest but offensively, if you convert more third downs and scoring doesn't change, is it that big a deal?

Right now, while 3rd down percentage has increased, the scoring has barely moved. Now maybe the increase in 3rd down percentage will translate to more points down the road, but right now, I really think it's hard to argue that Cooper has somehow transformed this offense.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Dez the decoy bad.

Cooper + the first round pick the decoy good.

I hate the idea of spending resources on players that we can't use.

That's why I was one of the handful on here who was happy with LVE over Ridley.

We can actually use LVE. Ridley or any WR is just a waste. I'd rather have a TE .

We don't need to spend a first rounder on a guy to run off coverage. Dak's still a 200 yard passer.

I'm sorry but guys like Tate and Thomas would have been terrible here and imo isnt worth a 2nd. The eagles had plans to get Tate involved vs the saints and the guy was terrible.

And we are talking about them having to pass most of the game just to catch up. Tate was supposed to atleast have near 100 yards in that game script in what was considered early as garbage time because of the early lead.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Look at all the other examples under McClay...

-Martin was BPA
-Jones was a BPA type pick
-Gregory was BPA
-Zeke was BPA
-Jaylon was BPA
-LVE was BPA

They aren't blind to need, but talent comes first.

Jaylon was far from BPA.....they didn’t even know if he could play or if he ever would. Zeke, Byron, Gregory, LVE were all needs. Martin was a need but BPA as well.

 

[OmerV]

Jaylon was far from BPA.....they didn’t even know if he could play or if he ever would. Zeke, Byron, Gregory, LVE were all needs. Martin was a need but BPA as well.

I think it's false to suggest any team completely ignores needs and goes with best player available regardless of how much better that player is than someone who fills a position of greater need, or regardless of whether the team is already well set at the position that player plays. For example, it doesn't matter if the best player available when the Rams pick in the 1st round is a QB or RB, they are not going to take a QB or RB. The reality is need is a factor for every team.

 

[Philmonroe]

We could beat them by 20 pts and there will be a whole posse out to minimize the effort .

Because it's fools gold and the easily impressed like yourself don't get that

 

[Sydla]

Jaylon was far from BPA.....they didn’t even know if he could play or if he ever would. Zeke, Byron, Gregory, LVE were all needs. Martin was a need but BPA as well.

Not entirely accurate.

For example, Smith was absolutely a BPA pick. Cowboys had a first round draft grade on him even after the knee injury (FWIW, they had Jack rated right behind him in the first round). Elliott was also the BPA on their board when they drafted 4th. In fact, he was their top rated prospect in the entire draft. So he was as much BPA as need.

Gregory was also BPA. They also had a first round grade on him and when he fell due to drug issues, he was an easy selection for them.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Ok, but the three game sample would also apply to those that believe he has made no difference. The knife cuts both ways.

In team scoring which is what matters he.. Hasn't. The burden of proof is for Cooper to show he makes a difference verses status quo.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Not really because in the end, the goal is to score points. If you suddenly start converting more 3rd downs but still are scoring roughly the same amount of points, how important then is that increase in 3rd down percentage? I guess it has an effect on your defense who might get more rest but offensively, if you convert more third downs and scoring doesn't change, is it that big a deal?

Right now, while 3rd down percentage has increased, the scoring has barely moved. Now maybe the increase in 3rd down percentage will translate to more points down the road, but right now, I really think it's hard to argue that Cooper has somehow transformed this offense.

Valid point, but you can have an improved offence and not improve red zone efficacy. If Cooper is making the safety shade to his side or play back and opening up Zeke and Bease (as others have suggested) that effect would be lessened in the RZ where the field is shorter.

Of course, we also had the OL changes at the same time so nothing is conclusive.