CFZ Stabs at the 2023 Runningback Rotation

[charron]

See above

People should stop looking at what someone did in college 6 years ago. 5 years in the NFL and he's had 1 good year and that was 2 years ago. He's neither powerful or elusive in the NFL. He's weak excuse for a Rb and grossly overpaid. Camp body because he's a veteran. I'd rather have Zeke than this fool

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Some of the biggest news this offseason for Dallas has been the release of Ezekiel Elliott, who is the latest big player to prove the NFL stands for what have you done for me lately.

With that said, it's exciting to think about the rotation coming up in 2023. I feel like one combination can be Luepke and Pollard. The player I really liked, as an NFL prospect, was Noah Gindorff, simply because he's basically a lineman who can go out for a pass, and might be good on those swing passes. I have to say, the title FB, made my evaluation on him (Luepke), well, non-existent: I just didn't think even McCarthy would add a full-back. But I do have visions of Hunter Luepke and Duece Vaughn in the same backfield, and then 2 TE sets with Pollard when he's in. There's a lot we can do there, especially if Luepke ends up being a good blocker, and at least 2 of our TEs take a step in their blocking game. It can happen.

I think we keep 4RBs. I think it's Pollard, Jones, Luepke, Vaughn. And, Vaughn can also be your 5th, 6th, emergency WR. Yes, he can do that, especially in a WCO. The path for Vaugh is to adapt to being a two-role player. He has it in him.

The other thing is that Schoonmaker is actually better than people think. Yes, he is older. But there's a reason they went up to get him in the 2nd round. They wanted to improve at TE, instead of staying the same, because they already have 2 guys who are on the level of those remaining, aside from guys like Josh Whyle, who I think was under-scouted as a pass-catcher.

So, Jones and Pollard, can both be WRs, and are marginally good at blocking. Meanwhile, the Pollard/Vaughn, and Pollard Luepke combinations could be interesting. For whatever reason, I don't think they like or trust Malik Davis. They pulled him in the San Fran game, and just never gave him another chance all while Zeke blew it, in large part becasue we became so predictable handing it off to Zeke. We shall see. As for Zeke, my kudos go out to him. We all know RBs have short careers, and not many can outrun Zeke. He's a top 5 Cowboys back in my book, and that's among a history of having nothing but the most elite backs in Dallas.

assuming on average we run the ball 25-30 times, I expect to see Pollard get 15-20 carries a game. Jones about 5-8, with Vaughn/Luepke about 2-3 carries a game. the distribution might be different in using RBs in the passing game more often, I expect to see 5-10 plays a game specifically designed for RBs to make some plays in passing game, given both Vaughn and Pollard are good in space and can create some yards if given opportunities.

The Vaughn/Luepke will get some touches in passing games more than running game. most probably if we see any running plays for those two, will be on stretch runs, trying to create some outsize seams for them to run and each presents a different problem to the defense. Luepke with his size and some shiftiness to his game and vaughn can hide and slide and hard to tackle. All we need from those two is about 2 good plays a game, for us to have them show cased a bit, thus the defense having to prepare for them.

Luepke can catch from the back field and they will experiment moving him around as an H-back to see how he fits and if he is able to take advantage of some mismatches. getting him matched up against a LB, would be to our advantage. vaughn will get opportunities on some swing passes, some short routes in front of the LBs and move him in space to get him the ball and let him get some YAC.

where this will help, as I said above, is the defenses have to prepare for it. have to account for this, else they may end up giving up some big chunks and that's all we need from those two.

the biggest concern is vaughn would be the 3rd back and if he is a liability on special teams. Luepke has the size. both have to show they can do that to make it to game day roster.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

yea I should have kept Davis in there too help too. I just don't know if we take 4 RB's or leave Davis at home till an injury

I think Davis stays home. he can be adequate if your RB depth gets depleted. he is nothing special in any specific area.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Our RB group and situation suck. PERIOD.
Now that is taking into account we have no idea about Pollard right now, until he is 100%, if he will be.

Even if he is, the RB situation is not all that good. Another stupid blown situation by the FO in Jerry and Son, Inc.

If they are relying on Pollard as the bell cow, I hope they are right. But how many times have we seen them do this before at other position groups.

MM featured Deuce McCallister and gave him 300 carries a couple years but most of his offenses utilized 2 or 3 backs. Schottenheimer uses lots of backs.

I think the RB situation is a change in offensive philosophy and if it is on anyone it would be MM.

12 carries a game is about where you want both Pollard and Vaughn. That is 204 carries apiece. Throw in the chaff from Dak and the rest of the backs and you account for a seasons carries at that point.

There is no question that Pollard can handle that. He broke his leg; he did not die. The question is the pairing but between Vaughn, Luepke, Dowdle, Davis, and Jones they can get those carries.

The real question is how they handle protections on 3rd and forever. Assuming you have a 6 man protection then there is the TE. I like all our TE as pass blockers. Both Ferguson and Schoonmaker are big enough and long enough to challenge DE. If the blitz isolates those TE you can manage. If you need 7 man then have a TE play the F role or play with the backs we have.

We were conditioned for years with Murray then Zeke staying in to pass protect and Witten then Schultz running their option routes but that repetitive thus predictable **** is over.

 

[Jarntt]

So, Jones and Pollard, can both be WRs, and are marginally good at blocking. Meanwhile, the Pollard/Vaughn, and Pollard Luepke combinations could be interesting. For whatever reason, I don't think they like or trust Malik Davis. They pulled him in the San Fran game, and just never gave him another chance all while Zeke blew it, in large part becasue we became so predictable handing it off to Zeke. We shall see. As for Zeke, my kudos go out to him. We all know RBs have short careers, and not many can outrun Zeke. He's a top 5 Cowboys back in my book, and that's among a history of having nothing but the most elite backs in Dallas.

Way too much talk every year about lining RBs up as WRs. It just doesn't happen very often for a reason. It's very different to run a pattern as a RB and as a WR and the patterns themselves are very different as well. It's just not going to happen other than a play or two in a specialty package but those are usually just to get the defense in mismatches. Lining up as a RB and then splitting out wide or into the slot to try and isolate a LB or safety isn't the same as being a WR. It won't happen and this year will be like every other year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What bothers me more is lack of preparation. For example, if Elliott had been willing to take a major paycut (let's say to $2 million), I would have seen no problem with holding on to him instead of signing Ronald Jones II and then trying to find a replacement in the draft. However, the team has problems handling the sentimentality of such a move. You allow Elliott to compete for a spot on the team but be willing to cut him if several backs look like they are better.

When we finally cut ties with Emmitt, we ended up starting his backup because of poor planning. We didn't have another option in place. Not sure we haven't done the same to some extent with Elliott. Pollard is clearly a good player and better player at this point than Elliott, but he's coming off a broken leg and needs someone to share the load anyway. Does a cheap vet, sixth-round pick and some UDFAs provide a sound option for that?

This is just semantics. Pollard is a quality RB. He was far outplaying Zeke last year and objectively was already our RB1.

We are replacing backup quality production that saw a lot of use. Not the better more productive back.

 

[BlindFaith]

People should stop looking at what someone did in college 6 years ago. 5 years in the NFL and he's had 1 good year and that was 2 years ago. He's neither powerful or elusive in the NFL. He's weak excuse for a Rb and grossly overpaid. Camp body because he's a veteran. I'd rather have Zeke than this fool

He was the leading rusher for the superbowl champs in 2020. Averaging 5.1 ypc.

I havent seen even 1 of his runs, that I can recall. So I dont have an opinion of if he can play or not.

But hes not slow.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Our RB group and situation suck. PERIOD.
Now that is taking into account we have no idea about Pollard right now, until he is 100%, if he will be.

Even if he is, the RB situation is not all that good. Another stupid blown situation by the FO in Jerry and Son, Inc.

Does it make you feel better than the super bowl champs backfield consists of Isiah Pacheco, Jerick McKinnon, Clyde Edwards-Helaire and La'Mical Perine?

 

[AshyLarry06]

their wr room also meh...they did it by committee, great team effort and coaching being sharp and ahead of the other team.

Also helps tht their QB is a guy named Mahomes

 

[Big_D]

I much rather see a legit competition than going back to just handing an aging vet the job. It’s been a major problem having a ridiculous contract dictate a roster spot and workload. That’s even after being way over rated by management. I see Dowdle Jones Davis Luepke and Vaughn fighting for the 2 or 3 spots considering what they do at TE and in the return game. Special teams is the edge in this competition. Finding guys who can have multiple roles. Churn and keep churning! It’s the correct approach at this point.

 

[jazzcat22]

Does it make you feel better than the super bowl champs backfield consists of Isiah Pacheco, Jerick McKinnon, Clyde Edwards-Helaire and La'Mical Perine?

No, because they have been productive. Perine was a good pick up by them.
As I said, much depends upon Pollard and his recovery. And then how MM uses him and the play calling, and of course if the OL stays healthy., for once.

 

[gimmesix]

This is just semantics. Pollard is a quality RB. He was far outplaying Zeke last year and objectively was already our RB1.

We are replacing backup quality production that saw a lot of use. Not the better more productive back.

The only question about RB No. 1 is the injury. It's a broken leg late in the season at a position that is all about leg mobility. He was definitely the better more productive back, but he's coming off injury. We don't know if he'll be slow to do that.

The No. 2 back is highly important considering that even without the injury we're not going to make Pollard a bell cow. Can a bargain signing, late-round pick and UDFAs be even as good as a diminished Zeke? I don't know the answer to that, but I would certainly feel better if we had done more to answer the question.

What we're doing at running back parallels too closely with what we did at receiver last year. We got rid of our No. 2 (Cooper) who had previously been our No. 1. His replacement (Gallup) was coming off a season-ending injury and surgery. And all we added was a bargain signing (Washington), a third-round pick (Tolbert) and some UDFAs (Houston) to pair with what we already had on the roster. That turned out to be poor planning, and we even spent a higher draft choice on that position than we did the RB spot.

I guess like with that position we could always seek to trade for a back or pick up one off the street if this plan turns out as poorly

 

[BlindFaith]

I much rather see a legit competition than going back to just handing an aging vet the job. It’s been a major problem having a ridiculous contract dictate a roster spot and workload. That’s even after being way over rated by management. I see Dowdle Jones Davis Luepke and Vaughn fighting for the 2 or 3 spots considering what they do at TE and in the return game. Special teams is the edge in this competition. Finding guys who can have multiple roles. Churn and keep churning! It’s the correct approach at this point.

Lets not forget that there will be RBs available later. Camp cuts, practice squads, trades etc.

Around 20 rbs were drafted this year. More picked up in UDFA. So guys will be hitting the streets one way or another.

Our winning hinges on two things this year.
1. Dak improving and being consistent
2. This defense elevating to boarderline elite

A 3rd string rb or 4th te or 5th wr has virtually no impact.

 

[blueblood70]

Also helps tht their QB is a guy named Mahomes

More like Reid, the OL, the play calls, scheming , and sure PM helps pull it together but please just stop if the OL blocks, open holes better against the better Defenses instead of say NO RUN GAME, 11 penalties, and other issues causing tipped balls or gets our qbs hand broken ie bottom 10 in win rate pressures , IDC about sacks that the qb pulling out, running, rushing throws, or moving throw on the run that helps with that but the OL been the issue in the playoffs #1 by longshot.

starts in the trenches, ours have been suspect against the top DLs

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Lets not forget that there will be RBs available later. Camp cuts, practice squads, trades etc.

Around 20 rbs were drafted this year. More picked up in UDFA. So guys will be hitting the streets one way or another.

Our winning hinges on two things this year.
1. Dak improving and being consistent
2. This defense elevating to boarderline elite

A 3rd string rb or 4th te or 5th wr has virtually no impact.

Agree.

But- while the 3rd string RB may not matter too much, the 2nd string RB might be hugely important. It could be the difference between advancing in the playoffs or going home.

 

[Pass2Run]

This group of 4 seems like a good guess. Not sure about Vaughn as a WR though. Jones was brought in as a trusted experienced backup, and they'll probably keep him over Davis. That will be a good battle to watch as they most likely won't keep both. I wouldn't be surprised if Davis beats him out, but my money is on Jones.

Luepke is a better blocker and short yardage back than Vaughn, and possibly a better receiver, although Vaughn probably wins on YAC. They're not cutting Luepke after the big signing bonus. 4 RB and 3 TE is my bet.

I'm talking about him motioning around sometimes.

 

[DuncanIso]

assuming on average we run the ball 25-30 times, I expect to see Pollard get 15-20 carries a game. Jones about 5-8, with Vaughn/Luepke about 2-3 carries a game. the distribution might be different in using RBs in the passing game more often, I expect to see 5-10 plays a game specifically designed for RBs to make some plays in passing game, given both Vaughn and Pollard are good in space and can create some yards if given opportunities.

The Vaughn/Luepke will get some touches in passing games more than running game. most probably if we see any running plays for those two, will be on stretch runs, trying to create some outsize seams for them to run and each presents a different problem to the defense. Luepke with his size and some shiftiness to his game and vaughn can hide and slide and hard to tackle. All we need from those two is about 2 good plays a game, for us to have them show cased a bit, thus the defense having to prepare for them.

Luepke can catch from the back field and they will experiment moving him around as an H-back to see how he fits and if he is able to take advantage of some mismatches. getting him matched up against a LB, would be to our advantage. vaughn will get opportunities on some swing passes, some short routes in front of the LBs and move him in space to get him the ball and let him get some YAC.

where this will help, as I said above, is the defenses have to prepare for it. have to account for this, else they may end up giving up some big chunks and that's all we need from those two.

the biggest concern is vaughn would be the 3rd back and if he is a liability on special teams. Luepke has the size. both have to show they can do that to make it to game day roster.

Pollard can’t pass block.

Look for the same splits as last season.

Also, Pollard is unknown. Leg was wrecked.

 

[Toro9]

Some of the biggest news this offseason for Dallas has been the release of Ezekiel Elliott, who is the latest big player to prove the NFL stands for what have you done for me lately.

With that said, it's exciting to think about the rotation coming up in 2023. I feel like one combination can be Luepke and Pollard. The player I really liked, as an NFL prospect, was Noah Gindorff, simply because he's basically a lineman who can go out for a pass, and might be good on those swing passes. I have to say, the title FB, made my evaluation on him (Luepke), well, non-existent: I just didn't think even McCarthy would add a full-back. But I do have visions of Hunter Luepke and Duece Vaughn in the same backfield, and then 2 TE sets with Pollard when he's in. There's a lot we can do there, especially if Luepke ends up being a good blocker, and at least 2 of our TEs take a step in their blocking game. It can happen.

I think we keep 4RBs. I think it's Pollard, Jones, Luepke, Vaughn. And, Vaughn can also be your 5th, 6th, emergency WR. Yes, he can do that, especially in a WCO. The path for Vaugh is to adapt to being a two-role player. He has it in him.

The other thing is that Schoonmaker is actually better than people think. Yes, he is older. But there's a reason they went up to get him in the 2nd round. They wanted to improve at TE, instead of staying the same, because they already have 2 guys who are on the level of those remaining, aside from guys like Josh Whyle, who I think was under-scouted as a pass-catcher.

So, Jones and Pollard, can both be WRs, and are marginally good at blocking. Meanwhile, the Pollard/Vaughn, and Pollard Luepke combinations could be interesting. For whatever reason, I don't think they like or trust Malik Davis. They pulled him in the San Fran game, and just never gave him another chance all while Zeke blew it, in large part becasue we became so predictable handing it off to Zeke. We shall see. As for Zeke, my kudos go out to him. We all know RBs have short careers, and not many can outrun Zeke. He's a top 5 Cowboys back in my book, and that's among a history of having nothing but the most elite backs in Dallas.

If I'm playing Madden it's gonna be Pollard, Leupke, Deuce. Thanks for your time, Ronald. It makes sense on paper. I'd like to see some TC film first though.

 

[nalam]

4RB, 4 TEs is my guess. Gives you lots of Dak-friendly weapons, and becomes a headache to deal with. Look for players who, like McCarthy says, can do two things. I said it last year. This year, it's an even bigger deal. They want players who can do two things. I see it in a lot of our UDFA types.

4 RBs/ 4 TEs will be difficult because then WR needs to shorted , but as you mention Vaugn can bring some effective WR role may be they go short on WR. ( we need sure hands WRs)

Interesting battles ahead in the camp.

 

[BlindFaith]

Agree.

But- while the 3rd string RB may not matter too much, the 2nd string RB might be hugely important. It could be the difference between advancing in the playoffs or going home.

I know next to nothing about Jones. Seems more like Pollard than Zeke. Has decent size and good speed. Plus hes coming back home.
Hes a minus to what Pollard was as a backup. How much? TBD.

Pollard will be our bell cow. Hes bulked up to 215. Can he handle 40 plays a game? We'll see. If he can, hes a plus to Zeke as a starter.

So at the very least Id say we are about the same overall as we were when we started last season. But Pollard gives us a plus starter.

Im not at all concerned about our RBs. I know MM has said that he wants to run more, but hes an analytics guy. He knows this is a passing league. I think it was a shot across the bow of USS Dak.

The battle for 3rd/4th RB. 3rd/4th TE. 5th/6th WR. Little to no relevance this year. Those spots are about the future. Yes, they need to be special team contributors, but I doubt there is a correlation of good special teams to playoff wins.

I love the fact that we focused on defense. That was my idea as well.

Limit Dak. Force him into more of a bus driver role. Build a great defense. Keep scores low. Score enough to force teams to play catch up.

I was a rb in college, but always had much more of a defensive mentality. I havent been this excited to see a Cowboys defense in years.