State of the DT position

fivetwos

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I'll try to say this another way.....

They've TRIED at DT....they have spent two 3rds a 2nd and a 6th recently....they have tried to sign older vets, they have tried to go cheap.....

And have FAILED.

None of those draft picks has emerged as of yet (yes, it's very debatable whether any of them ever will).....

But it's no where near as neglected as safety....they just got a little luckier at that spot.

When the plan is draft only to get starters, what is supposed to happen when high picks fail?
 

thunderpimp91

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Aaron Donald is a Unicorn...PERIOD!!!!!
He is a unicorn, however looking at PFFs top ranked DTs from last year it seems to be pretty split on bigger vs undersized guys. Of their top 12 (I get PFF isnt 100% accurate) half are listed under 300lbs.

Donald
Sieler
Heyward
Allen
Watt (Super low snap count compared to the others)
Armstead
 

CowboyoWales

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I'll try to say this another way.....

They've TRIED at DT....they have spent two 3rds a 2nd and a 6th recently....they have tried to sign older vets, they have tried to go cheap.....

And have FAILED.

None of those draft picks has emerged as of yet (yes, it's very debatable whether any of them ever will).....

But it's no where near as neglected as safety....they just got a little luckier at that spot.

When the plan is draft only to get starters, what is supposed to happen when high picks fail?
We just don't pick two down players, 3 tech fine and hope.
We improved against the run last ýear....Urban's injury. Bring him back at look to the O-Line for improvements
 

speedkilz88

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If Dan Quinn were the defensive genius people think he is, why hasn't he talked the lack of brain trust running this team into fixing the issues at 1T and Mike?
Micah was drafted to be the Mike and if you checked out Seahawks & Falcons rosters when Quinn was there you wouldn't find that high pick fat guy NT they talk about. Mebane was a 300 3T (3rd rnd pick) that Quinn moved to 1T and the Falcons used Tyeler Davison 316 pounds who was drafted by Saints in the 5th round and signed as a FA. Grady Jarrett is mentioned sometimes but he is their 300 pound 3T taken in the 5th round. Davison by the way was released last week by the Falcons.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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What I'm basically saying is our DL can't stop the run because they're not big enough. They need to be bigger across the board. Until that happens we will struggle. And that's the truth. How hard is it to find bigger players?

It's not hard at all. They just aren't interested or don't know what they're doing.

I genuinely believe you get out of it what you put into it. What's the most you've put into the interior Dline in the last decade? Reaching for college non-starter Trysten Hill in the second round? It's just unfortunate Jerry still doesn't see this.
 

speedkilz88

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I genuinely believe you get out of it what you put into it. What's the most you've put into the interior Dline in the last decade? Reaching for college non-starter Trysten Hill in the second round? It's just unfortunate Jerry still doesn't see this.
1st round DTs have been snatched up much higher than where they were picking. Must be nice picking top 10 every year huh?
 

Sydla

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I genuinely believe you get out of it what you put into it. What's the most you've put into the interior Dline in the last decade? Reaching for college non-starter Trysten Hill in the second round? It's just unfortunate Jerry still doesn't see this.

The beauty of letting Rod Marinelli have heavy influence in picking players.

He's a reason why Hill is here and why we took Charlton when we should have taken Watt.
 

thunderpimp91

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The beauty of letting Rod Marinelli have heavy influence in picking players.

He's a reason why Hill is here and why we took Charlton when we should have taken Watt.
But he made Hill promise that he would work hard....Not sure how that one didnt work out.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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1st round DTs have been snatched up much higher than where they were picking. Must be nice picking top 10 every year huh?

In 2012, Dallas was picking 14th. They then moved up to 6th to take CB Morris Claiborne. Dontari Poe was taken 11th. Fletcher Cox was taken 12th, not a top 10 pick. Michael Brockers was ironically selected in Dallas's original pick at 14.

In 2013, with their 2nd round selection, Dallas took TE Galvin Escobar. 2 picks later, NYG took longtime NFL stalwart Jonathan Hankins at DT.

In the 2014 Draft, Aaron Donald went 13th overall. Also not a top 10 pick. Dallas picked 18th, approximate value of that move up is a third + fourth rounder.

In 2015 Dallas drafted way back at 27th. 5 picks later, NE took their defensive lynchpin DT Malcolm Brown. Brown has 2 SB rings in 3 visits, and signed a giant contract with miami last offseason. He is awesome.

In 2016, you drafted Ezekiel Elliot 4th overall. Deforest Buckner went 3 picks after. He is currently Indianapolis's DT after they traded a first rounder for him and gave him the largest Dline contract in team history. He was All-Pro in 2020 and has 45 sacks in 6 years despite playing the 3-tech. In the second round, Dallas selected Jaylon Smith. 3 picks later, a player named Chris Jones was selected. Despite also playing the 3-tech, 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT position, Chris Jones has 50 sacks in only 6 years, and is on pace to go to the hall of fame.

In 2018 in the first round, Dallas drafted LVE 19th overall. Vita Vea went 12th overall, also not a top 10 pick. That would have cost approximately a 2nd round pick to move up. If not willing to move up for Vea, Dallas could have selected 1st round pick Taven Bryan. Bryan has been quiet because he was drafted in Jacksonville, but Cleveland just signed him this offseason to be their starting DT.

In 2019, Dallas traded their first round pick for WR Amari Cooper, whom they they traded away for a 5th round pick 3 years and 50m$ later. That pick was #27, LAC took a DT with the very next pick, Jerry Tillery. Tillery has played in 47 of a possible 48 games for the Chargers in his 3 year career, and will be starting in 2022 opposite Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack. You will know his name very shortly. in the 2nd round, Dallas reached for malcontent Trysten Hill. The very next DT drafted was 3-tech Dre'Mont Jones to Denver. Dre'Mont already has 15.5 sacks in his 3 year career, despite not being an every day starter. He is projected to be in 2022, and that number should balloon.



To say you had no shot at strong DT's because they were top 10 picks is all hullaballoo. You've quite literally avoided drafting some of the greatest DT's of our generation, not to mention another half dozen guys who would easily start in Dallas's current roster. Dallas has had every opportunity to not just fix the position, but to have the strongest interior Dline in the entire NFL.

Again, the most you've invested in the position in the last 10 years was reaching for Trysten Hill in the 2nd round. No trades, no major free agent acquisitions, no big contract extensions for DT's who surpassed expectations... because there weren't any. You get out of it what you put into it. The Jones's have indirectly acknowledged against building the DT position because that does not fit their model for winning Super Bowls.
 
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atlantacowboy

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That is where my quesion comes from, because i'm not entire sure the Cowboys havent dedicated resources to the position. It's are they just terrible at evaluating talent at the position, or is finding quality DTs much more difficult than we tend to think?

FAs have mostly been the role player variety or bargain bin variety, I agree. Urban, Watkins, even a Donteri Poe I would throw in there with where he was in his career when they signed him. The last 3 drafts they have 3 DTs selected within the top 100. Feels like that should be better than worst unit in the NFL, especially with rotational/role players signed through FA.

Its going to take awhile to overhaul the marinelli in the front office. Rob was perfectly fine reshaping veteran rejects from other teams and he was good at making them better. I think the FO still has some of that philosophy in them.

Quinn had really good DTs in Atlanta and I can't beleive he's not going to push the Jones boys to take a DT with the first or second pick.
 

atlantacowboy

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So why did Donteri Poe fail so hard? 6'3" 340lbs+

These giant DTs have short shelf lives. Not all of them are dedicated to football and keeping their weight down. Poe had no work ethic. Once he got fat and slow, he stayed that way.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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These giant DTs have short shelf lives. Not all of them are dedicated to football and keeping their weight down. Poe had no work ethic. Once he got fat and slow, he stayed that way.

Remember Pat Williams? That dude was enormous and an every day starter until he was 39.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillPa20.htm

For the people that remember the Williams wall in Minnesota, he didnt even join the team until his mid-30's. They dont make em like that anymore
 
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kskboys

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Micah was drafted to be the Mike and if you checked out Seahawks & Falcons rosters when Quinn was there you wouldn't find that high pick fat guy NT they talk about. Mebane was a 300 3T (3rd rnd pick) that Quinn moved to 1T and the Falcons used Tyeler Davison 316 pounds who was drafted by Saints in the 5th round and signed as a FA. Grady Jarrett is mentioned sometimes but he is their 300 pound 3T taken in the 5th round. Davison by the way was released last week by the Falcons.
Sure, but Mebane had that NT build at 6-1/311. He was a playmaking NT who plugged the middle.
 

Risen Star

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The next time you take a crap, before you wipe and flush stand up, turn around and look at it.

That's the state of our DT position.
 

kskboys

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kskboys

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In 2012, Dallas was picking 14th. They then moved up to 6th to take CB Morris Claiborne. Dontari Poe was taken 11th. Fletcher Cox was taken 12th, not a top 10 pick. Michael Brockers was ironically selected in Dallas's original pick at 14.

In 2013, with their 2nd round selection, Dallas took TE Galvin Escobar. 2 picks later, NYG took longtime NFL stalwart Jonathan Hankins at DT.

In the 2014 Draft, Aaron Donald went 13th overall. Also not a top 10 pick. Dallas picked 18th, approximate value of that move up is a third + fourth rounder.

In 2015 Dallas drafted way back at 27th. 5 picks later, NE took their defensive lynchpin DT Malcolm Brown. Brown has 2 SB rings in 3 visits, and signed a giant contract with miami last offseason. He is awesome.

In 2016, you drafted Ezekiel Elliot 4th overall. Deforest Buckner went 3 picks after. He is currently Indianapolis's DT after they traded a first rounder for him and gave him the largest Dline contract in team history. He was All-Pro in 2020 and has 45 sacks in 6 years despite playing the 3-tech. In the second round, Dallas selected Jaylon Smith. 3 picks later, a player named Chris Jones was selected. Despite also playing the 3-tech, 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT position, Chris Jones has 50 sacks in only 6 years, and is on pace to go to the hall of fame.

In 2018 in the first round, Dallas drafted LVE 19th overall. Vita Vea went 12th overall, also not a top 10 pick. That would have cost approximately a 2nd round pick to move up. If not willing to move up for Vea, Dallas could have selected 1st round pick Taven Bryan. Bryan has been quiet because he was drafted in Jacksonville, but Cleveland just signed him this offseason to be their starting DT.

In 2019, Dallas traded their first round pick for WR Amari Cooper, whom they they traded away for a 5th round pick 3 years and 50m$ later. That pick was #27, LAC took a DT with the very next pick, Jerry Tillery. Tillery has played in 47 of a possible 48 games for the Chargers in his 3 year career, and will be starting in 2022 opposite Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack. You will know his name very shortly. in the 2nd round, Dallas reached for malcontent Trysten Hill. The very next DT drafted was 3-tech Dre'Mont Jones to Denver. Dre'Mont already has 15.5 sacks in his 3 year career, despite not being an every day starter. He is projected to be in 2022, and that number should balloon.



To say you had no shot at strong DT's because they were top 10 picks is all hullaballoo. You've quite literally avoided drafting some of the greatest DT's of our generation, not to mention another half dozen guys who would easily start in Dallas's current roster. Dallas has had every opportunity to not just fix the position, but to have the strongest interior Dline in the entire NFL.

Again, the most you've invested in the position in the last 10 years was reaching for Trysten Hill in the 2nd round. No trades, no major free agent acquisitions, no big contract extensions for DT's who surpassed expectations... because there weren't any. You get out of it what you put into it. The Jones's have indirectly acknowledged against building the DT position because that does not fit their model for winning Super Bowls.
Now that is well done!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've been passing up great DT prospects for a long time. Mostly for flash.

Reader was a 6th round pick.

Kenny Clark was also taken in 2016 after we took Zeke. BTW, many of us wanted to trade back in that draft. Clark went 27th and might be the best NT in football. We also took Jaylon over Jarran Reed in that draft.

Since Jerry doesn't care about the DT position, most of our drafting of them is an afterthought.
 

fivetwos

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The beauty of letting Rod Marinelli have heavy influence in picking players.

He's a reason why Hill is here and why we took Charlton when we should have taken Watt.
Ya know what I didn't realize......

Garrett gone yet the offense is still predictable.

Marinelli is gone yet the same philosophy remains.

Parcells is gone but "the devil you know" lesson is how this franchise is run at its core.

It's like a never ending quest to get the best tasting groceries you can find, throw them all in a pot and figuring it ought to taste great.....as opposed to following a proven recipe.
 
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