State of the DT position

kskboys

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Ya know what I didn't realize......

Garrett gone yet the offense is still predictable.

Marinelli is gone yet the same philosophy remains.

Parcells is gone but "the devil you know" lesson is how this franchise is run at its core.

It's like a never ending quest to get the best tasting groceries you can find, throw them all in a pot and figuring it ought to taste great.....as opposed to following a proven recipe.
The Osa and Gholston picks were admittedly a different philosophy.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Now that is well done!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've been passing up great DT prospects for a long time. Mostly for flash.

Reader was a 6th round pick.

Kenny Clark was also taken in 2016 after we took Zeke. BTW, many of us wanted to trade back in that draft. Clark went 27th and might be the best NT in football. We also took Jaylon over Jarran Reed in that draft.

Since Jerry doesn't care about the DT position, most of our drafting of them is an afterthought.

Wow, I've Admittingly never even heard of Jarran Reed, but his resumé is amazing. Should have added him
 

quickccc

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This, remember when they had Ratliff playing the 1 and we were screaming way back then to get a run stuffer.

Ratliff was playing the NT role in a 3-4 scheme at around 295 lbs.
It had been reported that Cowboys coaching staff wanted Ratliff to move him to DE but he was very reluctant (refused) to make that move.
 

jazzcat22

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Interesting thought, but why do the cowboys continue to struggle against the run then? Hill, Watson, gallimore, bohanna, urban all are over or very close to 6’4” 300lbs. Only true undersized DT is OSA.

If Urban returns, it will be the same DT group from last season. So results mostly likely the same, unless a few of these players lights come on and they vastly improve.
I like the players for the TC competition. But they still need a top DT in the draft, such as Davis.

If I am not mistaken though, seems the run defense got even worse after Urban was injured. Not sure why he is not back yet, as Quinn made it known he wanted him back. Maybe injury was worse than they thought.
 

fivetwos

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The Osa and Gholston picks were admittedly a different philosophy.
Maybe. Difficult for me to say.

As far as those two.....I really don't understand how fans want to throw away high picks as non factors in year two, first whole offseason.

I realize they didn't show much, but people seem to be more hopeful that the upcoming draft will be more of a miracle and savior somehow.

When you're draft only for impact starters, and you fail repeatedly after the second round, it's going to add up to a very flawed roster.

Sorry to veer off topic but it happens lol.
 

jterrell

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I just realized that Malik Collins signed this offseason for $8.5MM per year.

Now I've been about as frustrated as anyone at the lack of production out of our DT unit, but given someone like Collins can sign for that much on a multi-year deal really makes me wonder how truly rare it is to find a top DT in this league, and how valuable it is when you find an Aaron Donald, Chris Jones, etc. And if so how is this position not prioritized more in the draft by all teams as a premium position?

Maybe I'm off on my evaluation of Collins, but it feels he is slightly above JAG level, no? Is the state of the DT position league wide that bad with the exception of top tier players? Does it take a freak athlete or elite talent to play the position in todays game? It almost feels like either you have a top guy or you might as well just cycle through mid round picks like the Cowboys have done, and move on after their rookie deals.
DT is the hardest position to fill in college.
Elite DT are more rare than elite QBs are so teams try to play 4 of them and keep guys fresh.

It is a tough deal.
But yea cycling through good value stop gaps isn't an awful plan unless you can hit on a monster.

Aaron Donald was badly wanted by Cowboys fans for what he did at Pitt but he also played college DT at 260 pounds thus he didn't go top 5.
His ability to add size and not lose any quickness or speed is literally insane.
You couldn't build a better DT in a lab.
 

MarkP88

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The next time you take a crap, before you wipe and flush stand up, turn around and look at it.

That's the state of our DT position.
To make the analogy even more accurate, don't flush. Just leave it there for a very long time, like it's not even a problem.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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You could make a case for Spears. A 5T is basically a DT

Yeah I could see that, but I think the intent is the point. They drafted him to be an edge rusher, as opposed to an interior player. When Dallas moved back to a 4-3, he stayed at DE. I would compare him to JustinTuck or Brandon Graham in that regard; 4-3 DE's who can slide into DT on passing downs.
 

Sydla

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Ya know what I didn't realize......

Garrett gone yet the offense is still predictable.

Marinelli is gone yet the same philosophy remains.

Parcells is gone but "the devil you know" lesson is how this franchise is run at its core.

It's like a never ending quest to get the best tasting groceries you can find, throw them all in a pot and figuring it ought to taste great.....as opposed to following a proven recipe.

I think this is a bit much in the sense that I don't think the offense was as predictable as people want to claim, especially not like Garrett's tenure. And I think the Jones were heavily influenced by the Kiffin/Marinelli philosophy and adopted it. Stephen is always looking to pinch a penny and my guess is he believes he has to skim on certain positions - safety and DT are two of those positions.

But we invest in RB. Stupid is as stupid does.
 

quickccc

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Micah was drafted to be the Mike
and if you checked out Seahawks & Falcons rosters when Quinn was there you wouldn't find that high pick fat guy NT they talk about. Mebane was a 300 3T (3rd rnd pick) that Quinn moved to 1T and the Falcons used Tyeler Davison 316 pounds who was drafted by Saints in the 5th round and signed as a FA. Grady Jarrett is mentioned sometimes but he is their 300 pound 3T taken in the 5th round. Davison by the way was released last week by the Falcons.

Wasn't 340 lb Dontari Poe on Quinn's defensive team in ATL in 2017 ?
 

darthseinfeld

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Yeah I could see that, but I think the intent is the point. They drafted him to be an edge rusher, as opposed to an interior player. When Dallas moved back to a 4-3, he stayed at DE. I would compare him to JustinTuck or Brandon Graham in that regard; 4-3 DE's who can slide into DT on passing downs.
He got released because we were moving a 4-3. He didnt play for us after we converted
 

fivetwos

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I think this is a bit much in the sense that I don't think the offense was as predictable as people want to claim, especially not like Garrett's tenure. And I think the Jones were heavily influenced by the Kiffin/Marinelli philosophy and adopted it. Stephen is always looking to pinch a penny and my guess is he believes he has to skim on certain positions - safety and DT are two of those positions.

But we invest in RB. Stupid is as stupid does.
I've gotta disagree with the first part.

I suspected in early December about some sort of 'tell' going on within the offense.

SF players about confirmed it afterward.

Edit....I should mention the Marinelli comment is as spot on as it gets, and is a very underrated problem.
 

quickccc

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He got released because we were moving a 4-3. He didnt play for us after we converted

Plus didn't DC Rob Ryan consider Jason Hatcher as a far superior, interior force than Spears ?
Whereas Wade Phillips kept Hatcher as a reserve specialist only, Ryan promoted Hatcher as a starter over Spears.in Ryans 3-4 scheme?
 

Sydla

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I've gotta disagree with the first part.

I suspected in early December about some sort of 'tell' going on within the offense.

SF players about confirmed it afterward.

Edit....I should mention the Marinelli comment is as spot on as it gets, and is a very underrated problem.

I think the offense was more an issue with the OL, Zeke being useless and Dak being off more so than being predictable. Elliott was missing holes, Dak was missing WRs, et .
 

Plankton

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fivetwos

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I think the offense was more an issue with the OL, Zeke being useless and Dak being off more so than being predictable. Elliott was missing holes, Dak was missing WRs, et .
That could be yeah....it just seemed like the defense knew what was coming.

I really thought we were done with our opponents telling the media how predictable we are.... and responding by doing nothing about it.
 

Creeper

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The Cowboys are not going to sign a top tier DT. They are not going to draft a DT in the first round. I do not think there is any chance Jordan Davis falls to 24. In fact, if he falls to the Eagles they will take him as the future replacement for Fletcher Cox. They have 3 picks so you can bet he would be one of them. My advice to the Cowboys to to leak false reports about who they are interested in because the Eagles will certainly snatch the Cowboys target if they find out who it is.

If the Cowboys are going to improve on the DL it will be because Odighizuwa, Gallimore, Hill and Bohanna improved. The Cowboys lack of interest in the DT position is befuddling.
 
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