Staying Away from Speed WRs

[DaBoys4Life]

While that's sound logic; What I don't get is why people always want to compare a guy to one of the best that ever did it. Everytime a RB comes into the combine and doesn't run well in the 40 but looked good in college, here comes people to compare him to Emmit like there are 100 Emmit Smiths in the league.

Everytime a WR doesn't run well, they want to compare him to Jerry.

You can make guys miss? Well you're like Barry Sanders.

It doesn't make any sense. How many Jerry Rice's has this league seen?

man this is the best post i have ever seen on the internet period. to add 2 it you can shot a fadaway jump shot you must be the next MJ

 

[TellerMorrow34]

IMO most of those guys stats are not bad, at all, for a #2 WR whose used to be the speed guy. Which is what you'd want with a pure speed guy is for him to likely be the #2. If you can get a blazing fast guy who can also be a one that's a bonus. (See Steve Smith for Carolina)

The problem for quite a few of those guys who at least have had productive careers is that teams want them to be the #1 and they're simply not #1's.

 

[masomenos]

IMO most of those guys stats are not bad, at all, for a #2 WR whose used to be the speed guy. Which is what you'd want with a pure speed guy is for him to likely be the #2. If you can get a blazing fast guy who can also be a one that's a bonus. (See Steve Smith for Carolina)

The problem for quite a few of those guys who at least have had productive careers is that teams want them to be the #1 and they're simply not #1's.

You're right, they aren't bad for #2 WRs at all. The thing is, when a guy is picked #13 in the 1st round, like Stallworth, you need him to be more than a #2 guy. Walker was picked up by Green Bay, with the 20th pick, to be a #1 and Denver traded a first round pick for him to be a #1 as well. Chambers was picked to be the #1 guy in Miami and never was able to have that kind of production, although he may end up panning out in San Diego. Only Santonio Holmes was drafted with the expectations of him being a #2 guy and he's actually fallen into that role quite nicely.

I suppose I should have clarified that when looking for a #1 WR being blazingly fast seems to not bode well for the player. I certainly won't argue the point that most of those players would be good #2s though.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You're right, they aren't bad for #2 WRs at all. The thing is, when a guy is picked #13 in the 1st round, like Stallworth, you need him to be more than a #2 guy. Walker was picked up by Green Bay, with the 20th pick, to be a #1 and Denver traded a first round pick for him to be a #1 as well. Chambers was picked to be the #1 guy in Miami and never was able to have that kind of production, although he may end up panning out in San Diego. Only Santonio Holmes was drafted with the expectations of him being a #2 guy and he's actually fallen into that role quite nicely.

I suppose I should have clarified that when looking for a #1 WR being blazingly fast seems to not bode well for the player. I certainly won't argue the point that most of those players would be good #2s though.

I disagree with Chambers whole heartedly. He was a very productive number one for a Miami team that has not been real good for a few years now and where he was the only target on the whole team to throw too. He had no other WR to help, they have no TE worth anything, and he's played with horribly inconsistent and terrible QB play.

Chambers did all he could have possibly done on that team and will continue to do more for the Chargers.

 

[masomenos]

For what it's worth this was written going into the 2007 season by K.C. Joyner:

Chris Chambers
"Chambers isn’t considered a great receiver, but his metrics indicate he wasn’t even a good receiver last year. Chambers had the lowest YPA (5.1) and success percentage (44.8) of any wide receiver in the NFL in 2006. He ranked no higher than 49th in YPA at any depth level, so he lacked production across the board.


Chambers was hampered by bad quarterback play, but 14 of his 24 missed pass plays last year were drops. Even if some of those other 10 passes had been completed, though, it still wouldn’t have brought his overall metrics back up to a respectable level."

Like I said, Chambers may end up being a really good pickup for the Chargers but he wasn't one of the NFLs elite while in Miami. Not to say he was a bum or anything, but you can't blame just the QB situation. Eli had an awful regular season this year but Plaxico had a great year. Same goes for Torry Holt and Dwayne Bowe.

 

[Muhast]

Most of the real burners were more track guys then football players. And in the NFL that makes a big difference. Bob Hayes is still the ONLY world class track guy that ever made it to the pro bowl.

H.Walker was pretty close, he almost made the olympic team. Pretty sure it was a 10.22 100m.

 

[THUMPER]

Most of the real burners were more track guys then football players. And in the NFL that makes a big difference. Bob Hayes is still the ONLY world class track guy that ever made it to the pro bowl.

Not true. Ron Brown was a pro-bowler and all-pro in 1985. He was part of the gold medal winning 4x100 relay team in 1984 that set the world record for the event. Of course, that was mostly as a return man than as a WR but he was still a WR who went to the pro-bowl.

Just sayin zall...

I played with him in a couple of pickup games after he retired. The guy was amazingly fast!

 

[TheHerd]

In general I'm always leery of guys who make their name only at the combine. I guess I'm a show me guy. I'm a lot more interested in performance on the field under game pressure and exhaustion than I am in how a guy performs in a dome in shorts and a t-shirt.

 

[THUMPER]

In general I'm always leery of guys who make their name only at the combine. I guess I'm a show me guy. I'm a lot more interested in performance on the field under game pressure and exhaustion than I am in how a guy performs in a dome in shorts and a t-shirt.

I always thought they should time WRs in full pads with a CB to get past. Run 5 40-yard routes and average the time. Oh yeah, and he has to catch the ball at the end of his route.

Running 40 yards in shorts is no indication of how a guy will play in an actual game. Why teams/scouts continue to put any stock in this number is beyond me as it has proven over the years to be nearly useless in determining a player's ability to play the game.

 

[conner01]

being fast does'nt make you a football player
being a football player who is fast makes you a pain in the tail to cover.
some of those guys were never much of a football player

 

[burmafrd]

Ron Brown was not a starting WR. H Walker was not world class= 10.22 was not even good enough to make it to the semi finals of the US trials. If you cannot beat 10.10 you will never make it to the finals or even semi finals of the olympics or world championships. Willie Gault was probably the closest to making it to the Pro Bowl= he was pretty good.

 

[FLcowboy]

Perhaps another day lol. I see what you're saying though. I think something that would be useful would be to look at the top 15 WRs over the past 3 years or so and see what they have in common in terms of combine performance and (if I can find it) college production.

You're right. You did a great job of presenting facts against theory, and I think we should all heed the numbers, and not attack the presenter. The point is, speedy receivers in college and the combine don't necessarily translate into NFL quality receivers.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't ever recall most of those guys being considered very good receivers.

But I think there's an advantage to being "slower" as a receiver because you have to work harder on your routes because you know you can't blow past guys.

Speed receivers are so use to blowing past guys in high school and college that, sometimes, they don't develop the route-running skills needed to challenge at the pro level.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Your record is insufficient.

Donte Stallworth is a decent WR and he ran something sub 4.3 in 2001.

Andre Johnson had some burning sub 4.4 times.

Reggie Wayne has 4.4 or better.

And I'm pretty sure Randy Moss did, as well.


____________

I think the obvious point is don't draft a guy who otherwise has nothing going for him except for a fast 40 time.

To say that one should stay away from an otherwise quality WR because he ran a fast 40 time is completely wrong.

And Marvin Harrison, and Steve Smith, and Chad Johnson, etc.

The list he gave wasn't very extensive.

Teams look at speed for a reason, it's very difficult to be a great receiver if you can't get seperation and generally speed helps get seperation.




YAKUZA

 

[masomenos]

And Marvin Harrison, and Steve Smith, and Chad Johnson, etc.

The list he gave wasn't very extensive.

Teams look at speed for a reason, it's very difficult to be a great receiver if you can't get seperation and generally speed helps get seperation.




YAKUZA

Harrison was drafted in 1996, like I said, I only have information going back to the 1999 draft. Chad Johnson ran a 4.57 at the combine, Steve Smith ran a 4.41. I didn't include them because they didn't fit the requirements. Yeah Johnson slipped a bit when he ran his 40 at the combine, he ran again for scouts a few weeks later at a Los Angeles high school, he ran a 4.44 there.

And 40 time isn't an indicator of a players ability to get separation for the majority of routes. On a streak sure, but for a lot of other routes it means jack.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Speed has nothing to do with it...

 

[SuspectCorner]

Straightline speed is ridiculously overrated when applied to NFL receivers. Bob Hayes is STILL the best receiver among the "blazer" crop - and it's only been like, what... 40 years since the Bullet? It almost seems a rule of football nature that speed detracts from hands.

The best receivers will always be the ones who can gain separation via superior route-running and outpositioning the DB for the ball.

 

[THUMPER]

Ron Brown was not a starting WR.

Actually he was a starter for 3 seasons with the Rams (started 32 games). He wasn't a great WR but he was a starter and he was a gold medalist and he did make both the pro-bowl and all-pro.

Face it, you were WRONG!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowRo01.htm

You are right though in the spirit of what you are saying though in that world class sprinters don't usually make it in the NFL. That's what makes Bob Hayes so special and yet another reason why he should be in the HoF.

 

[Biggems]

ok so let's draft a couple of WRs who run in the 4.9 range.......no sense in taking those overrated burners....let's get a few guys who can't get separation in an elderly ward.....


BTW....I want Donnie Avery and Paul Hubbard

 

[THUMPER]

Straightline speed is ridiculously overrated when applied to NFL receivers. Bob Hayes is STILL the best receiver among the "blazer" crop - and it's only been like, what... 40 years since the Bullet? It almost seems a rule of football nature that speed detracts from hands.

The best receivers will always be the ones who can gain separation via superior route-running and outpositioning the DB for the ball.

Exactly right. I am amazed at how professional scouts are STILL enamored with 40 times rather than whether or not the guy can actually run the right route and come down with the ball at the end of it.

Stupid scouts! :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: