Stephen Jones is a terrible negotiator

[daveferr33]

Dallas
2(34) Demarcus Lawrence DE Boise St.

Washington
2(47) Trent Murphy OLB Stanford
3(78) Spencer Long G Nebraska

Now I don't think this is the way you evaluate a trade because had the Cowboys retained those picks they wouldn't have picked the players the Commanders did, but I don't fear what the Commanders got with those picks. Murphy was a decent 3 and Long should have been drafted today at some point. Probably in the 5th round area.

They stole Morgan Moses but that had nothing to do with this trade.

Here is what was available at those spots:

Available at 47:

DE Trent Murphy 2(47)
DE Jeremiah Attaochu 2(50)
DE Kony Ealy 2(60)
DE Scott Crichton 3(72)

Available at 78:

FS Terrence Brooks Florida State 3(79)
OG Gabe Jackson Mississippi St 3 (81)
DT Will Sutton Arizona State 3(82)
DE Kareem Martin North Carolina 3(84)
WR Donte Moncrief Ole Miss 3(90)
OG Trai Turner LSU 3(93)

So the question then is do you like any combination of the players above over Lawrence?

If before this draft you told me we were going to come away with:

Zach Martin
Ealy or Crichton
Brooks, Kareem Martin, or Trai Turner

I would have been happy with that

 

[MikeT22]

For instance we wanted to trade down yesterday but couldn't.

There were probably deals to be made but we considered them to be bad. People act like we take anything offered. It's dumb.

Cool. But I was referring to actual trades that have been made. We almost always tend to come up short on the value side of it. I attribute it to Jerry wanting something to the point he's willing to overpay. Sometimes it comes down to panicking. Either way it's generally not wise to overpay.

As for this particular situation, I do like D Lawrence so we'll just have to hope he becomes a solid longterm starter that makes it worthwhile.

 

[Eddie]

Here is what was available at those spots:

Available at 47:

DE Trent Murphy 2(47)
DE Jeremiah Attaochu 2(50)
DE Kony Ealy 2(60)
DE Scott Crichton 3(72)

Available at 78:

FS Terrence Brooks Florida State 3(79)
OG Gabe Jackson Mississippi St 3 (81)
DT Will Sutton Arizona State 3(82)
DE Kareem Martin North Carolina 3(84)
WR Donte Moncrief Ole Miss 3(90)
OG Trai Turner LSU 3(93)

So the question then is do you like any combination of the players above over Lawrence?

Ealy + Brooks >>> Lawrence

No question about it. Both Ealy and Brooks would be starting/contributing. Lawrence is a good player, but he can't play two positions at once.

Sorry ... this just proves my point about getting fleeced.

 

[Risen Star]

Here is what was available at those spots:

Available at 47:

DE Trent Murphy 2(47)
DE Jeremiah Attaochu 2(50)
DE Kony Ealy 2(60)
DE Scott Crichton 3(72)

Available at 78:

FS Terrence Brooks Florida State 3(79)
OG Gabe Jackson Mississippi St 3 (81)
DT Will Sutton Arizona State 3(82)
DE Kareem Martin North Carolina 3(84)
WR Donte Moncrief Ole Miss 3(90)
OG Trai Turner LSU 3(93)

So the question then is do you like any combination of the players above over Lawrence?

I'd probably take Attaochu and Jackson over Lawrence.

But somebody will come in here and tell me Jackson is a poor fit for our blocking scheme.

Strength in numbers. If Lawrence busts, your 2nd and 3rd round picks bust.

 

[Eddie]

I'd probably take Attaochu and Jackson over Lawrence.

But somebody will come in here and tell me Jackson is a poor fit for our blocking scheme.

Strength in numbers. If Lawrence busts, your 2nd and 3rd round picks bust.

Attaochu would have been a great fit also. Absolutely unnecessary to give up that pick. We could have gotten a comparable player and kept our 3rd rounder.

We already lost a premium pick by giving it away for Claiborne. Now we're down another.

 

[CowboyChris]

move back 13 picks in the 1st round last year and only got back a 3rd from San Fran.

move forward 13 picks in the 2nd round this year and get bamboozled for a 3rd from Wash.

nobody has any issue with this??????

yes we all have an issue with this, but dont forget it was us who wanted trade down, and it was us who wanted to move up. theres a difference.

 

[Eddie]

Regardless of how far they traded either time, isn't the goal to get players who can help you? We needed an RDE. One that we had rated much higher was there. So we did what we had to do to get him. Isn't it really just that simple ultimately?

Probably not. There is always some convoluted conspiracy theory.

Ok, we needed a WDE. I agree.

We also need a DT, FS, OLB, MLB ... should we trade multiple picks for these positions too?

 

[DFWJC]

Because the values change from year to year and from team to team based on who is available to be drafted. If you and another team do not have more than 20 players graded as first rounders it's going to cost a lot less to move up from say 40 to 24 than in a year when 30 players are graded as first rounders.

I agree. You're right about those charts being flexible to the real world.
But they were WAY off yesterday. Stephen even said they overpaid in the paper today by even their charts. But they only had a few guys they thought could play 4-3 DE rush end, and he was one of them. They had him rated as 1 st round talent as a rusher and 2nd round talent overall.
I get it, but it is frustration to give up that 3rd. All is well if Lawrence delivers.

 

[btcutter]

Supply and demand....Atlanta was also wanting Lawrence so a little bidding war ensued...we won

I'm still waiting for someone from Atlanta to confirm they lost out in the trade. All we got is someone said this......Otherwise everyone is just speculating and making themselves feel better about overpaying.

 

[btcutter]

Ok, we needed a WDE. I agree.

We also need a DT, FS, OLB, MLB ... should we trade multiple picks for these positions too?

We have to realistic. This team is not one WDE away from SB. Therefore, it is crucial that we do not give up picks that builds toward the future. This is a BPA draft for us to fill out the roster with MANY gaping holes. If I'm unable to get an ideal WDE this year but able to fill many other holes then so be it.

 

[Hostile]

Ok, we needed a WDE. I agree.

We also need a DT, FS, OLB, MLB ... should we trade multiple picks for these positions too?

I have a better idea, how about we use the next 8 picks we have in a deep draft for them. Whatcha think?

 

[jobberone]

Here is what was available at those spots:

Available at 47:

DE Trent Murphy 2(47)
DE Jeremiah Attaochu 2(50)
DE Kony Ealy 2(60)
DE Scott Crichton 3(72)

Available at 78:

FS Terrence Brooks Florida State 3(79)
OG Gabe Jackson Mississippi St 3 (81)
DT Will Sutton Arizona State 3(82)
DE Kareem Martin North Carolina 3(84)
WR Donte Moncrief Ole Miss 3(90)
OG Trai Turner LSU 3(93)

So the question then is do you like any combination of the players above over Lawrence?

If before this draft you told me we were going to come away with:

Zach Martin
Ealy or Crichton
Brooks, Kareem Martin, or Trai Turner

I would have been happy with that

I do bemoan Brooks and possibly Martin some. C'est la vie. You pays your dollar you gets your chance. The entire draft is littered with busts although you do minimize some risk the higher the pick. Again go back and look at the post about snaps and the graph I posted on draft picks. A 3rd round pick is valuable but it's a myth they are starters out of the box. Obviously some are due to their talent or a lack of talent on the team that drafted them. You should see some significant snaps by year 3 by a third round pick. I forget the % who start. Google it.

It doesn't make sense to get this worked up over using a third to move up to pick 34 from 47. Squirrel nuts if the player works out for you esp if he's a vital cog. We HAD to have another pass rusher and a WDE. Otherwise we are going to be average at best....again. If he doesn't work out then let your cries be heard on the wind. Otherwise it might be wiser to wait and see what the heck happens.

 

[cowboy_ron]

I'm still waiting for someone from Atlanta to confirm they lost out in the trade. All we got is someone said this......Otherwise everyone is just speculating and making themselves feel better about overpaying.

Then you might find that on the Falcons site..no one is going to do your legwork for you

 

[jobberone]

Ealy + Brooks >>> Lawrence

No question about it. Both Ealy and Brooks would be starting/contributing. Lawrence is a good player, but he can't play two positions at once.

Sorry ... this just proves my point about getting fleeced.

I don't agree. Ealy is a different player than Lawrence. We have some players that probably approach Ealy or exceed whatever your opinion is. We don't have a quick, fast, bend DE like Lawrence. He went to Denver. Brooks would have been very nice IMO. I regret not being allowed to pick him. We'll have to see how Lawrence turns out. If he's HOF or even 'just' All Pro or yuck Pro Bowl then rejoice. If he sucks then you can throw rotten tomatoes at Jerry.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'd probably take Attaochu and Jackson over Lawrence.

But somebody will come in here and tell me Jackson is a poor fit for our blocking scheme.

Strength in numbers. If Lawrence busts, your 2nd and 3rd round picks bust.

You could change Jackson to Trai Turner as we know they liked Turner.

 

[Risen Star]

You could change Jackson to Trai Turner as we know they liked Turner.

Would you take Attaochu and Turner over Lawrence?

 

[GiveDezdaBall88]

I'm not surprised we got hosed, we have more draft needs on defense than any team so we give up a 3rd rounder. Smh

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I like both players but since I do think Lawrence is much better and I already got a good OG in the first round. However I would be more thank OK with those two.

 

[SportsGuru80]

When Da-Law has 8 or 9 sacks this year people will forget all about this thread....

 

[GiveDezdaBall88]

Wish we could kidnap Seattles GM and have him draft for us. Richard Sherman, kam, Byron maxwell, Bruce Irvin.