Stephen Jones podcast with Ed Werder, doesn't seem happy with JG

FuzzyLumpkins

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I'll agree to disagree now. We won't change each others minds.

You can ignore the preponderance of evidence if you like but its well established that passing correlates to points while running the ball doesn't.

The mechanics bear this out too as passing nets twice as much yardage per attempt than running the ball. That means more first downs and more scoring opportunities overall.

Running the ball is not a panacea. Martyball illustrated that quite clearly 30 years ago.
 

Aviano90

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You can ignore the preponderance of evidence if you like but its well established that passing correlates to points while running the ball doesn't.

The mechanics bear this out too as passing nets twice as much yardage per attempt than running the ball. That means more first downs and more scoring opportunities overall.

Running the ball is not a panacea. Martyball illustrated that quite clearly 30 years ago.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will continue wanting us to run the ball when it is advantageous to milk time at the end of the half and still score while significantly reducing chances of the opponent having time to score themselves before halftime. If that is ignoring the preponderance of evidence, then that is what I will do.

Thank you for your input.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will continue wanting us to run the ball when it is advantageous to milk time at the end of the half and still score while significantly reducing chances of the opponent having time to score themselves before halftime. If that is ignoring the preponderance of evidence, then that is what I will do.

Thank you for your input.

You said running the ball leads to more points than passing. That is what I was speaking to.
 

Aviano90

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No, I do not agree with that narrative. As I pointed out, we had to pass the ball to score points because of a historically bad defense.
That was in 2013. And you don't have to agree with it. I don't care to change your mind.

That does not explain the other clock management issues in the other years that continues to occur. Again, we can agree to disagree.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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That was in 2013. And you don't have to agree with it. I don't care to change your mind.

That does not explain the other clock management issues in the other years that continues to occur. Again, we can agree to disagree.

:laugh:You asked me if I agreed. Someone is getting pissy.

Now you are moving the goalposts.

I don't disagree that he iced his kicker and similar malfeasance 5 years ago. That has not been a problem the past few years though.
 

Aviano90

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You said running the ball leads to more points than passing. That is what I was speaking to.

Yes, I think running in those situations would be more advantageous to actually scoring touchdowns. I'll give you an example:

Philadelphia game 2016 (1st meeting)

We get 1st and goal from the 6 with like a 1:30 remaining in the first half in a tie ball game. Would be a perfect time to run the ball since we are in no hurry to score. The faster we score, the more time Philly has to answer before half. We drop back to pass, incomplete and stop the clock. No big deal, run on 2nd down and force Philly to use a timeout if we don't score. Get closer to goal line and then have option to run or pass on 3rd down. Nope, we pass on 2nd down and throw interception. It was a bad decision by Dak, but even if incomplete or is a TD, the clock stops and Philly has plenty of time to go score themselves. Even if the 2nd down play was incomplete and not intercepted, on 3rd down we would have almost certainly passed again. So, 3 plays from the 6 yard line would have resulted in only a few seconds ticking off the clock.

This happens too often. It occurred in the 1st half of the 2016 playoff game. Got 1st and 10 at the 15 yard line with 75 seconds left with timeouts to stop clock if need be. We threw 3 straight times taking only 15 seconds off clock and settled for field goal. This left 60 seconds for Rodgers to move down the field and match our field goal. Thankfully the defense held that time.

This happens too often. There are plenty of other examples. And yes, I think continuing to run in these situations increases our chances of scoring and it is important to keep running because the clock keeps moving. If running doesn't increase our chances of scoring then why get Zeke? Let's trade the dude and get better receivers or QB.
 

Aviano90

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:laugh:You asked me if I agreed. Someone is getting pissy.

Now you are moving the goalposts.

I don't disagree that he iced his kicker and similar malfeasance 5 years ago. That has not been a problem the past few years though.
I think the icing the kicker is moronic and something that should be 100% on Bailey, personally. But that is another conversation.

And I don't think I am moving the goal posts. We are discussing 2 separate issues and they are bleeding together. 1. clock management 2. running the ball.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Yes, I think running in those situations would be more advantageous to actually scoring touchdowns. I'll give you an example:

Philadelphia game 2016 (1st meeting)

We get 1st and goal from the 6 with like a 1:30 remaining in the first half in a tie ball game. Would be a perfect time to run the ball since we are in no hurry to score. The faster we score, the more time Philly has to answer before half. We drop back to pass, incomplete and stop the clock. No big deal, run on 2nd down and force Philly to use a timeout if we don't score. Get closer to goal line and then have option to run or pass on 3rd down. Nope, we pass on 2nd down and throw interception. It was a bad decision by Dak, but even if incomplete or is a TD, the clock stops and Philly has plenty of time to go score themselves. Even if the 2nd down play was incomplete and not intercepted, on 3rd down we would have almost certainly passed again. So, 3 plays from the 6 yard line would have resulted in only a few seconds ticking off the clock.

This happens too often. It occurred in the 1st half of the 2016 playoff game. Got 1st and 10 at the 15 yard line with 75 seconds left with timeouts to stop clock if need be. We threw 3 straight times taking only 15 seconds off clock and settled for field goal. This left 60 seconds for Rodgers to move down the field and match our field goal. Thankfully the defense held that time.

This happens too often. There are plenty of other examples. And yes, I think continuing to run in these situations increases our chances of scoring and it is important to keep running because the clock keeps moving. If running doesn't increase our chances of scoring then why get Zeke. Let's trade the dude and get better receivers or QB.

Dak threw a bad pass. Going back and cherry picking interceptions and saying we should have run the ball is asinine.

The 2016 playoff game was parsed with expected points and running the ball was not a better option as I pointed out before.

I get that you are not going to change your mind because you are ideological about running the ball but it does not stand up to analysis or reality.
 

Buzzbait

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Follow the context of the conversation, AV and I was talking 8-8, you stuck your foot in it and was out context.
I was not out of context. You broadened the subject when you threw in the "if's and's or but's" remark. Sounds like you can't even follow your own remarks. You were doing an end run and you got stopped in the backfield. LOL
 

Aviano90

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Dak threw a bad pass. Going back and cherry picking interceptions and saying we should have run the ball is asinine.

The 2016 playoff game was parsed with expected points and running the ball was not a better option as I pointed out before.

I get that you are not going to change your mind because you are ideological about running the ball but it does not stand up to analysis or reality.

It's not just about running the ball. It is about scoring AND killing the clock while trying to significantly reduce the chances the other team has of scoring themselves. If we score a TD and the other team scores a TD, then it is net 0. If we can score a TD or FG and the other team can't match it, we benefit by 7 or 3.

We didn't need to pass into the end zone against Philly right there. Period. Just simply dropping back to pass right there is a mistake. So, the interception doesn't upset me, those happen. I question why we are passing to begin with there, especially 2 times in a row. That's regardless of outcome...even if it resulted in a touchdown.

I don't use hindsight to complain. That game I agree with the onside kick even though it didn't work, and I disagreed with going for it on 4th down in overtime even though that was successful. I still think that was the wrong call even though it led to us winning the game.
 

Dre11

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I was not out of context. You broadened the subject when you threw in the "if's and's or but's" remark. Sounds like you can't even follow your own remarks. You were doing an end run and you got stopped in the backfield. LOL

Are you illiterate? The ifs and buts had nothing to do with it. You tried to interject the 4-12 season, which wasn’t apart of the conversation, again, you stuck your foot in your mouth.
 

Buzzbait

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Are you illiterate? The ifs and buts had nothing to do with it. You tried to interject the 4-12 season, which wasn’t apart of the conversation, again, you stuck your foot in your mouth.

Give it a rest dude, you're going in circles.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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It's not just about running the ball. It is about scoring AND killing the clock while trying to significantly reduce the chances the other team has of scoring themselves. If we score a TD and the other team scores a TD, then it is net 0. If we can score a TD or FG and the other team can't match it, we benefit by 7 or 3.

We didn't need to pass into the end zone against Philly right there. Period. Just simply dropping back to pass right there is a mistake. So, the interception doesn't upset me, those happen. I question why we are passing to begin with there, especially 2 times in a row. That's regardless of outcome...even if it resulted in a touchdown.

I don't use hindsight to complain. That game I agree with the onside kick even though it didn't work, and I disagreed with going for it on 4th down in overtime even though that was successful. I still think that was the wrong call even though it led to us winning the game.



Looks to me like the Eagles had 10 in the box and we were at the 7. It was a god awful read by Dak.
 

Aviano90

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Looks to me like the Eagles had 10 in the box and we were at the 7. It was a god awful read by Dak.


Yeah, so we run and then force the Eagles to burn a timeout or let the clock run down. We then move to 3rd down and still have a shot to score. We should have ran on 1st down too. We could have passed on 3rd down.

Also, sure would be nice to line up power running game on 1st and 2nd down instead of shotgun.
 
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