Sturm - Morning After Commanders

[CATCH17]

I'm a big fan of Elliott, but even I can't see taking him at #4 overall.

If Goff is exiled to Cleveland purgatory, I'd have to quickly rethink where I wanted to go.

Elliot just doesn't look special enough to me to take in the first round.


I like Alex Collins and I wouldn't be surprised if he is the best rookie RB.

 

[jterrell]

Nonsense, why is Jerry investing all that money into the Frisco facility. I hear he is
developing a first class hotel, with restaurants, shops, etc. This is all about money,
power and the art of the deal. Jerry is taking lessons from Trump my friend. He uses
the Cowboys brand to bring him lots of money. Surely you don't think he would ever
sell the goose that lays golden eggs do you???

Jerry basically built Frisco, Texas.
It was a nothing 1 school suburb country town 15 years ago when Jerry started up Starwood.

Jerry Jones IS A BRAND goof. He doesn't need to make any money. He does so because he can.

His deal in Frisco is tremendous FOR FRISCO and the Cowboys.
They have FC Dallas, the Rangers AA club and the Mavs Development team; plus a Star Center.
Now their high schoolers will play at the Cowboys practice facility.
No more borrowing Coppell HS or SLC HS indoor facilities for the Cowboys and Frisco gets an indoor facility that is the nicest in the state.

I know ... they are in our district for one final year and they can't possibly expand fast enough.
They are the fastest growing city in the entire country.
They will have 10 5A High Schools next year.
No surrounding city has more than 5.

 

[tyke1doe]

No if you have been following my posts I have been saying we need to find his backup. All this doom and gloom on the team is so exaggerated due to Romo and Dez not being there.

Actually, injuries reveal the strength and depth of your team. If your team can't overcome injuries, how good is your team, really?

The Houston Texans got to the playoffs with our backup quarterback. Let that sink in a bit.

The Houston Texans made the playoffs with our backup quarterback, who couldn't win a game for us.

The Kansas City Chiefs lost their all-world tailback, won 10 consecutive games and were a Phillip River-interception away from winning the division.

The Seahawks played without Marshawn Lynch for much of the season and STILL made the playoffs!

The Steelers lost LeVeon Bell for the season and Big Ben for a few games and STILL made the playoffs.

And I won't even mention the Patriots, whose entire receiving corp. resembles a M*A*S*H unit.

How is it that every other team can lose a significant player and make the playoffs, but we can't in a watered down NFC East that was ripe for the picking?

This team is dependent on its stars. But that basically says we really don't have a winning system in place nor do we have depth to be able to sustain us through rough times.

 

[gmoney112]

Actually, injuries reveal the strength and depth of your team. If your team can't overcome injuries, how good is your team, really?

The Houston Texans got to the playoffs with our backup quarterback. Let that sink in a bit.

The Houston Texans made the playoffs with our backup quarterback, who couldn't win a game for us.

The Kansas City Chiefs lost their all-world tailback, won 10 consecutive games and were a Phillip River-interception away from winning the division.

The Seahawks played without Marshawn Lynch for much of the season and STILL made the playoffs!

The Steelers lost LeVeon Bell for the season and Big Ben for a few games and STILL made the playoffs.

And I won't even mention the Patriots, whose entire receiving corp. resembles a M*A*S*H unit.

How is it that every other team can lose a significant player and make the playoffs, but we can't in a watered down NFC East that was ripe for the picking?

This team is dependent on its stars. But that basically says we really don't have a winning system in place nor do we have depth to be able to sustain us through rough times.

To be honest, that list was more indicative that RB's are, by and large, completely overrated and also that defense alone can carry your team even in an "offense oriented" league.

What's most impressive is the Chiefs winning 10 straight with Alex Smith at QB. The same Alex Smith that I'm pretty sure didn't have a TD pass to a WR in an entire season a few years ago. Andy Reid may be a complete goof who will mismanage his way to a completely mediocre postseason record, but that feat alone is impressive to me.

 

[tyke1doe]

To be honest, that list was more indicative that RB's are, by and large, completely overrated and also that defense alone can carry your team even in an "offense oriented" league.

What's most impressive is the Chiefs winning 10 straight with Alex Smith at QB. The same Alex Smith that I'm pretty sure didn't have a TD pass to a WR in an entire season a few years ago. Andy Reid may be a complete goof who will mismanage his way to a completely mediocre postseason record, but that feat alone is impressive to me.

True, Seattle, Kansas City and Houston all have defenses ranked in the top 10. But the Cowboys defense (17th) is ranked higher than the Steelers' (21st).
Be that as it may, we still don't have an excuse in not being able to win the division because we didn't have Romo and Dez. Even without them, we had six games we loss by a margin of seven points or less. All of those are winnable games that if we have the roster depth, we're in the playoffs.
To me, that's inexcusable.

 

[tyke1doe]

Garrett is not as good as it appeared last year nor is he as bad as people pretend now.
He is your basic mid-level manager type.
He is a "process" guy.
Dallas can almost certainly do better but they've also done worse.

That 4 wins is the best thing we could have gotten. Had we won 7 I'd have been insanely frustrated.
I wish the Eagles to go 1 game below the playoffs every year of their existence.
That is literally purgatory.

We never bottomed out under Campo and it was foolish.
We did bottom out under Tom/Jimmy. Both those guys had seasons below 4 wins.
Funny how that is never part of this recent narrative.

What?

Tom Landry was fired after his 3-13 season. It IS a part of the narrative. In fact, it's a part of the HISTORY of the Cowboys.
Jimmy Johnson's 1-15 season had a purpose. Jimmy was trying to find out who the players were, who he was going to keep. But he had a plan, which resulted in keeping guys he thought were players and could contribute to the team (Irvin, Jeffcoat, Bates), bringing guys in whom he thought would be better than what the Cowboys had then (Washington, Everett, Casillas) and trading Herschel Walker to rebuild the Cowboys through the draft.

Those seasons ARE a part of the narrative. I don't understand what you mean. Sorry.

 

[MRV52]

Actually, injuries reveal the strength and depth of your team. If your team can't overcome injuries, how good is your team, really?

The Houston Texans got to the playoffs with our backup quarterback. Let that sink in a bit.

The Houston Texans made the playoffs with our backup quarterback, who couldn't win a game for us.

The Kansas City Chiefs lost their all-world tailback, won 10 consecutive games and were a Phillip River-interception away from winning the division.

The Seahawks played without Marshawn Lynch for much of the season and STILL made the playoffs!

The Steelers lost LeVeon Bell for the season and Big Ben for a few games and STILL made the playoffs.

And I won't even mention the Patriots, whose entire receiving corp. resembles a M*A*S*H unit.

How is it that every other team can lose a significant player and make the playoffs, but we can't in a watered down NFC East that was ripe for the picking?

This team is dependent on its stars. But that basically says we really don't have a winning system in place nor do we have depth to be able to sustain us through rough times.

I agree injuries are an excuse and shouldn't be used. The depth of this team is their true downfall and this is where we must improve. As you were saying other teams keep plugging in players when an injury occurs and they don't miss a beat. Look how far New England got this year with all their injuries. We have to become like these teams if we ever want to think about winning a Superbowl.

 

[DandyDon1722]

I look at it like this.
There are 5 potential young, franchise QBs available.
Manziel, RG3, Goff, Lynch, Wentz.
Now some of that is/will be fool's gold for sure.
But I believe those 5 will be solutions for someone.

Dallas almost certainly gets 1 of them.
As you note Goff seems the best bet and the one Dallas will not have a shot at because he is insanely likely to go 1#.
Lynch may also go because CLE is taking a QB.

But what if Dallas got Manziel for a late conditional pick and also took Wentz in r2?
That would be a lot of bet hedging but also a pretty good chance for immediate help at #4.

J - I'm right with you on all of that. I never really considered the draft AND and free agency as a combined option but it makes perfect sense and allows for the possibility of one of them to emerge and gets us the impact player at #4.

For now on this is going to be my position in the offseason. You nailed it.

 

[jterrell]

What?

Tom Landry was fired after his 3-13 season. It IS a part of the narrative. In fact, it's a part of the HISTORY of the Cowboys.
Jimmy Johnson's 1-15 season had a purpose. Jimmy was trying to find out who the players were, who he was going to keep. But he had a plan, which resulted in keeping guys he thought were players and could contribute to the team (Irvin, Jeffcoat, Bates), bringing guys in whom he thought would be better than what the Cowboys had then (Washington, Everett, Casillas) and trading Herschel Walker to rebuild the Cowboys through the draft.

Those seasons ARE a part of the narrative. I don't understand what you mean. Sorry.

Not part of the narrative blasting Garrett for this deplorable season as if no good coach ever lost games.

BTW, not sure Garrett is a good coach... but he is definitely better than some credit.
The fact they are ignoring Cowboys HISTORY is exactly WHY it is narrative.

BTW, this 4 win season served a purpose too. Getting a top draft pick while Romo and Dez were injured.
The 1-15 season served to show Jimmy he needed to find a real offensive coordinator.

 

[tyke1doe]

Not part of the narrative blasting Garrett for this deplorable season as if no good coach ever lost games.

BTW, not sure Garrett is a good coach... but he is definitely better than some credit.
The fact they are ignoring Cowboys HISTORY is exactly WHY it is narrative.

BTW, this 4 win season served a purpose too. Getting a top draft pick while Romo and Dez were injured.
The 1-15 season served to show Jimmy he needed to find a real offensive coordinator.

But it's not just that Garrett has lost games, it's how and why he has lost those games.

1. Garrett is a former quarterback, and backup quarterback at that. He went in for an injured Aikman and led the Cowboys to a Thanksgiving Day victory. He, of all people, should know the importance of a competent backup. And yet he brings in two guys who couldn't deliver the goods.

2. Garrett has one of the best quarterbacks in the game and apart from a 12-4 record, he has been average at best with three consecutive 8-8 seasons.

3. Please stop comparing Garrett's record to Landry's and Johnson's. Landry was on his way out. Johnson inherited a pitiful Cowboys team and was merely tinkering with the roster. There was a method to his madness.

4. Unlike Jimmy's "served a purpose" - which was deliberate - Garrett's "served a purpose" was unintentional. Garrett, unlike Jimmy, did not plan for Romo and Dez to get hurt. With all due respect, I'm kind of disappointed that you tried to make such a comparison. You're better than that.

5. Please explain to me how Jason Garrett is better than some give him credit? During a full season, he's 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 4-12. Are we supposed to applaud him for one good season compared to four average and one horrible season? What does Garrett do that we should give him credit for? What difference has he or is he making on this team that can't be attributed to having Tony Romo as his quarterback?

I'm seriously asking this question.

 

[Dodger12]

Not part of the narrative blasting Garrett for this deplorable season as if no good coach ever lost games.

BTW, not sure Garrett is a good coach... but he is definitely better than some credit.
The fact they are ignoring Cowboys HISTORY is exactly WHY it is narrative.

BTW, this 4 win season served a purpose too. Getting a top draft pick while Romo and Dez were injured.
The 1-15 season served to show Jimmy he needed to find a real offensive coordinator.

The problem that folks like you can't reconcile or explain is after years of "building" something, he couldn't muster but one win without Romo. This team this season and during Garrett's tenure has been historically bad. He's broken all the team records for futility.

And the 1 and 15 season showed that Jimmy had to acquire young and fast talent. He saw it in training camp. Guys were old and slow.

 

[Dodger12]

5. Please explain to me how Jason Garrett is better than some give him credit? During a full season, he's 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 4-12. Are we supposed to applaud him for one good season compared to four average and one horrible season? What does Garrett do that we should give him credit for? What difference has he or is he making on this team that can't be attributed to having Tony Romo as his quarterback?

I'm seriously asking this question.

Of course it's a serious question and one that folks can not explain without undermining one of their previous excuses. It just flies in the face of everything we've heard about Garrett, building the line, building the RKG team that is set up to win long term, etc. If anything, this team is worse off today than they were 5 years ago. The only exception may be the OL.

 

[jterrell]

But it's not just that Garrett has lost games, it's how and why he has lost those games.

1. Garrett is a former quarterback, and backup quarterback at that. He went in for an injured Aikman and led the Cowboys to a Thanksgiving Day victory. He, of all people, should know the importance of a competent backup. And yet he brings in two guys who couldn't deliver the goods.

2. Garrett has one of the best quarterbacks in the game and apart from a 12-4 record, he has been average at best with three consecutive 8-8 seasons.

3. Please stop comparing Garrett's record to Landry's and Johnson's. Landry was on his way out. Johnson inherited a pitiful Cowboys team and was merely tinkering with the roster. There was a method to his madness.

4. Unlike Jimmy's "served a purpose" - which was deliberate - Garrett's "served a purpose" was unintentional. Garrett, unlike Jimmy, did not plan for Romo and Dez to get hurt. With all due respect, I'm kind of disappointed that you tried to make such a comparison. You're better than that.

5. Please explain to me how Jason Garrett is better than some give him credit? During a full season, he's 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 4-12. Are we supposed to applaud him for one good season compared to four average and one horrible season? What does Garrett do that we should give him credit for? What difference has he or is he making on this team that can't be attributed to having Tony Romo as his quarterback?

I'm seriously asking this question.

This is not hard man.
Garrett is .500 in FULL seasons. In case you are lost there that is 100% middle of the road.
Last year we were picked to go 4-12 and we go 12-4.
This year the reverse. One doesn't more than the other.
Garrett is completely average. He's been below .500 once in his career. Over .500 twice now and .500 even 3 times.

Bad seasons happen to ALL coaches that last long enough in the business.

Garrett was completely lost and helpless this year as losses piled up. But Jimmy was EVEN MORE LOST in that 1 win season. He was the guy believing in Steve Walsh.

 

[tyke1doe]

This is not hard man.
Garrett is .500 in FULL seasons. In case you are lost there that is 100% middle of the road.
Last year we were picked to go 4-12 and we go 12-4.
This year the reverse. One doesn't more than the other.
Garrett is completely average. He's been below .500 once in his career. Over .500 twice now and .500 even 3 times.

Bad seasons happen to ALL coaches that last long enough in the business.

Garrett was completely lost and helpless this year as losses piled up. But Jimmy was EVEN MORE LOST in that 1 win season. He was the guy believing in Steve Walsh.

So? He also believed enough in Aikman to take him No. 1 overall in a draft that featured Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders.

Second, I think the disconnect here is that you're judging Jimmy on one bad season 1-15), and I'm judging him (and Garrett) based on several seasons.

We don't judge coaches based on one season. We judge them based on several seasons.

A 1-15, 7-9, 11-5, 13-3 (Super Bowl champions) record suggest that a coach is a very good coach. (Johnson)
A 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 4-12 record suggests a coach is very average. (Garrett)

Comparing a 1-15 record with a 8-8 record and criticizing the coach who had the 1-15 record and saying he did worse than the coach with the 4-12 record is like harshly judging a mechanic who completely tears down a vehicle versus one who partially dismantles a car.

You can't properly judge them until you see the results of what they're building.

Jimmy Johnson dismantled a team to rebuild it into a Super Bowl champion. Jason Garrett dismantled a team to rebuild it into a mediocre squad.

I guess my questions to you are ... "When does average stop being average and becomes bad?" "At point should Jerry Jones pull the plug on average?

 

[CCBoy]

The problem that folks like you can't reconcile or explain is after years of "building" something, he couldn't muster but one win without Romo. This team this season and during Garrett's tenure has been historically bad. He's broken all the team records for futility.

And the 1 and 15 season showed that Jimmy had to acquire young and fast talent. He saw it in training camp. Guys were old and slow.

So, what would have turned this Tony Romo and Dez Bryant team around? Another coach or a really quality 2nd wide receiver and a very elite defensive player do the trick? I say that a top 4 pick will provide an elite player in the up coming draft. Now, does that need to be quarterback, defensive end/tackle, or wide receiver? But with a valid improvement in depth and player quality, what would that then say about Jason Garrett. If the example of Jimmy Johnson is left on the table for a comparison...

 

[Dodger12]

So, what would have turned this Tony Romo and Dez Bryant team around? Another coach or a really quality 2nd wide receiver and a very elite defensive player do the trick? I say that a top 4 pick will provide an elite player in the up coming draft. Now, does that need to be quarterback, defensive end/tackle, or wide receiver? But with a valid improvement in depth and player quality, what would that then say about Jason Garrett. If the example of Jimmy Johnson is left on the table for a comparison...

We've spent a high draft pick on a #2 WR and a #2 TE. We moved up for Lawrence and picked Randy Gregory in the second. We moved up for Claiborne and we signed Hardy in FA. We've already done what you are suggesting. Garrett has been rebuilding and improving depth for 5 years now and you've defended that "rebuilding" excuse for years. I've never heard of a HC getting so many excuses year after year. The issues Garrett has faced is nothing unique to the NFL but I've had enough of epic and record breaking futility.

 

[tyke1doe]

We've spent a high draft pick on a #2 WR and a #2 TE. We moved up for Lawrence and picked Randy Gregory in the second. We moved up for Claiborne and we signed Hardy in FA. We've already done what you are suggesting. Garrett has been rebuilding and improving depth for 5 years now and you've defended that "rebuilding" excuse for years. I've never heard of a HC getting so many excuses year after year. The issues Garrett has faced is nothing unique to the NFL but I've had enough of epic and record breaking futility.

That's the point. Jimmy was able to rebuild a squad in a year (if measured by the 1-15 to 7-9 jump) and then in four years had a Super Bowl-winning roster. And in the prime of that team's life cycle, we had Steve Beuerlein and Bernie Kosar as back ups, both of whom were able to win games for us, including playoff games. Oh, and we also had Jason Garrett, who was able to win a game for us.

Moreover, a team should really start showing progress by year three. We were a year late, true. But we reverted back to abysmal this year. I think what this says about the Cowboys is that they do pretty good with their top picks, but that this staff still doesn't have an eye for developing depth.

We're probably more "star" dependent than any of the other franchises expected to be good. That doesn't speak well of our coaching or our scouting department.

 

[DandyDon52]

The Cowboys are the most valuable sports francise in the world and they have Jason Garrett, one of the worst 5 coaches in the nfl, as a head coach. That is insane!

lol ..... but they have the jones boys !!
They can "fix" anything !
They fixed the RB situation, and the Dez situation.
In other fixes they got rid of all the guys that were getting turnovers last year.......oops !

They will be fixing the 2015 team starting now.

 

[Dodger12]

That's the point. Jimmy was able to rebuild a squad in a year (if measured by the 1-15 to 7-9 jump) and then in four years had a Super Bowl-winning roster. And in the prime of that team's life cycle, we had Steve Beuerlein and Bernie Kosar as back ups, both of whom were able to win games for us, including playoff games. Oh, and we also had Jason Garrett, who was able to win a game for us.

Moreover, a team should really start showing progress by year three. We were a year late, true. But we reverted back to abysmal this year. I think what this says about the Cowboys is that they do pretty good with their top picks, but that this staff still doesn't have an eye for developing depth.

We're probably more "star" dependent than any of the other franchises expected to be good. That doesn't speak well of our coaching or our scouting department.

I agree. I just mentioned in another thread that after all these years of rebuilding and dumping high priced underachievers (or so we've been told), it's amazing how many major holes we have to fill.

We've been really poor at identifying and/or developing draft picks after round 1 which is where the depth should come into play. It's very disturbing to say the least.

 

[Coy]

True, Seattle, Kansas City and Houston all have defenses ranked in the top 10. But the Cowboys defense (17th) is ranked higher than the Steelers' (21st).
Be that as it may, we still don't have an excuse in not being able to win the division because we didn't have Romo and Dez. Even without them, we had six games we loss by a margin of seven points or less. All of those are winnable games that if we have the roster depth, we're in the playoffs.
To me, that's inexcusable.

Or GOOD coaching.