Sturm: Morning After: Developments on the Offensive Line in Canton

WoodysGirl

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BOB STURM |
Published: Monday, August 05, 2013, 10:21am

I am always up for over-analyzing something that might not require over-analyzing, but I will attempt to slow my roll given that it is a preseason game that preceded all other preseason games by a full week.

In other words, it is really early, folks.

However, entering training camp, there are two departments on this team that needed to prove that they were better than they have been in the recent past. Safeties and offensive line. Player availability and opposition efforts preclude us from reading too much into the safety play - other than JJ Wilcox is an impressive physical presence and that Matt Johnson remains a durability concern (to say the very, very least). Other than that, I think we must wait a week or two before we talk much on the safeties based on preseason game work. However, you can already see that they need plenty of work getting the proper depth so they don't play too shallow and risk plays over the top, but also not too deep leaving very easy 20 yard gains on digs that are beyond the linebackers and in a huge gulf short of the too deep, 2 deep safeties.

But, offensive line? Well, that is where I spent most of my Sunday night and Monday morning on analyzing a few spots in particular.

First, some brief background - because if you need more than brief, I would encourage you to read the archives of this blog as I have spent somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 words documenting the issues of the offense in general and the offensive line in specific on why this unit on the team controls pretty much everything (regardless of what the NFL Network or ESPN try to put on the Quarterback).


Read the rest: http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/n...ents-on-the-Offens?blockID=926453&feedID=3799
 

Idgit

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Love Sturm's stuff, but that was a message-board-rant quality overview of the last three years' juggling of the o-line. And not a good one at that.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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I am leaning to the side that says Frederick at center and anyone else at guard is better than Costa at center and Frederick at guard. Definitely appears Frederick is better at center than guard.

So 4/5ths of the line may be set, with Free, Frederick, Leary and Smith.

Who's gonna claim that RG spot? Bernadeau, Costa, Arkin or someone else?
 

FiveRings

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I am leaning to the side that says Frederick at center and anyone else at guard is better than Costa at center and Frederick at guard. Definitely appears Frederick is better at center than guard.

So 4/5ths of the line may be set, with Free, Frederick, Leary and Smith.

Who's gonna claim that RG spot? Bernadeau, Costa, Arkin or someone else?

I think our week 1 line will be the same line that came out for the opening series last night
 

burmafrd

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Love Sturm's stuff, but that was a message-board-rant quality overview of the last three years' juggling of the o-line. And not a good one at that.

well for those that have been doing the see no evil, etc on the O line of course they do not want to be reminded how wrong they were.
very accurate as regards Costa in 2011. Once again the Costa lovers do not want to hear that.

He gave solid information- not his problem you did not like it
 

Staubacher

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Love Sturm's stuff, but that was a message-board-rant quality overview of the last three years' juggling of the o-line. And not a good one at that.

Sturm suggested you read his long theses on his blogs about the OL. He goes into great detail.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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I think our week 1 line will be the same line that came out for the opening series last night

If he gets healthy I think Bernadeau will replace Arkin. He was better than him last year and Arkin still has trouble anchoring. Maybe Bernadeau will do better with a good center next to him.
 

Idgit

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well for those that have been doing the see no evil, etc on the O line of course they do not want to be reminded how wrong they were.
very accurate as regards Costa in 2011. Once again the Costa lovers do not want to hear that.

He gave solid information- not his problem you did not like it

Thanks, burm. As usual, you're way off, both on what's being criticized in my post, and in what you're taking away from the Sturm article.

Sturm suggested you read his long theses on his blogs about the OL. He goes into great detail.

His detail is great. As I said, I love Stum's stuff. It's just his characterization of how the last three years transpired that was unfair. The transition from 2010 to 2011 with Nagy, Costa, and Holland (and Fiametta) wasn't an objective for what we were going to do with the OL. It was as season in which we replaced aging and expensive vets and tried to plug in some young players to see what we might find while we went along with the plan for devoting resources to a large personnel problem. We were trying out puzzle pieces, hoping to develop very young players (Costa and Nagy and Smith). It was clearly a transition season, and everybody knew it at the time. Calling it three drastically different OL ideas in three seasons makes it seem like we were flip-flopping, when the reality is it took the two offseasons to get most of the pieces and coaches together.
 

burmafrd

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Thanks, burm. As usual, you're way off, both on what's being criticized in my post, and in what you're taking away from the Sturm article.



His detail is great. As I said, I love Stum's stuff. It's just his characterization of how the last three years transpired that was unfair. The transition from 2010 to 2011 with Nagy, Costa, and Holland (and Fiametta) wasn't an objective for what we were going to do with the OL. It was as season in which we replaced aging and expensive vets and tried to plug in some young players to see what we might find while we went along with the plan for devoting resources to a large personnel problem. We were trying out puzzle pieces, hoping to develop very young players (Costa and Nagy and Smith). It was clearly a transition season, and everybody knew it at the time. Calling it three drastically different OL ideas in three seasons makes it seem like we were flip-flopping, when the reality is it took the two offseasons to get most of the pieces and coaches together.


excuses. always excuses for the staff. And there were drastically different things going on in all three seasons. Like I said, too bad you do not like what he said. That is on you not him.

Bottom line is that whoever thought Costa was ready to replace Gurode should have been fired by the end of the season. That was the biggest mistake made thinking he was starting quality or even in the same galaxy.

And you still will not admit that even.
 

MichaelWinicki

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excuses. always excuses for the staff. And there were drastically different things going on in all three seasons. Like I said, too bad you do not like what he said. That is on you not him.

Bottom line is that whoever thought Costa was ready to replace Gurode should have been fired by the end of the season. That was the biggest mistake made thinking he was starting quality or even in the same galaxy.

And you still will not admit that even.

I'm not how many times you need to hear that Gurode was no longer capable of playing center, but here it is again.

Gurode never took another starting snap in the NFL as a center.

What's that tell you? Or should I say what does that tell someone without an agenda who thinks rationally?
 

Wolfpack

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Something was wrong with-in the organization somewhere with the OL. They went from big road graders with a man scheme to what JG wanted which was smaller faster guys who could get the 2nd level. Then they go back to wanting bigger power guys in a zone blocking scheme. All in three years.

Add in some low level investment in talent and you have a very poor OL. Things are looking up so I hope they stay the course now.
 

Idgit

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excuses. always excuses for the staff. And there were drastically different things going on in all three seasons. Like I said, too bad you do not like what he said. That is on you not him.

Bottom line is that whoever thought Costa was ready to replace Gurode should have been fired by the end of the season. That was the biggest mistake made thinking he was starting quality or even in the same galaxy.

And you still will not admit that even.

It *is* on me that I didn't not like what Bob Sturm had to say there. Good point. And, no, I still don't 'admit' that cutting Gurode in favor of Phil Costa was a mistake, much less the biggest mistake Jason made in retooling his OL. I stand by what I've always said that it was a good cap value move, that Costa needed experience but still played at a higher level than Gurode in camp and deserved the job, that he had to learn on the fly in 2011 and ended the season having made significant progress. These are all pretty obvious facts.

I'm also happy to have Frederick on board, and have been since day one (well, day two). He looks to me to be an upgrade at C over Costa, and Costa was a significantly better C for us than Ryan Cook was last season, so we've done a really nice job of filling the position and providing a quality backup. That's what you're supposed to do when you spend premium resources on your OL.
 

Idgit

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Something was wrong with-in the organization somewhere with the OL. They went from big road graders with a man scheme to what JG wanted which was smaller faster guys who could get the 2nd level. Then they go back to wanting bigger power guys in a zone blocking scheme. All in three years.

Add in some low level investment in talent and you have a very poor OL. Things are looking up so I hope they stay the course now.

Honestly, I think Jason made a mistake with the Houck signing, and then had to backtrack. Callahan had a different philosophy, and we had to repurpose a couple picks and shifted direction last season a bit with the bigger VFA OGs who then got hurt and were limited last year. I also think phasing in the zone blocking was a two year plan, and that the bigger C was a preference for the scheme. Losing 3 of them in camp last year also probably slowed down considerably what we were trying to phase in.

Most of that's just speculation on my part, though. I don't know what really went on with Houck, and how much retiring was really his idea. I know Jason had a world of respect for him, regardless. I do think last years training camp was an abortion of most of what we were hoping to do in the short term from the get-go.
 

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Regardless of whether you agree with the background facts on the theory of why we got to this point ...isn't it pretty much irrelevant as to what sort of team we field this year?

The real meat and potatoes of this post is the analysis of the players we are fielding this year.I think he is spot on of his analysis of what we have seen so far. We have a question mark at one of the guard spots. Some here think Arkin is the answer based on his performance. I am still skeptical ... and Sturm echoes that thought process. That doesn't mean he (or I are) are valid in our doubts on Arkin.... but it doesn't mean we are wrong either.

I hope I am wrong on Arkin, but personally....I think if he is a starter that he will likely be the weakest link on this line ..... and a significant drop off in talent from the next weakest player on our OL.
 

arglebargle

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I'm not how many times you need to hear that Gurode was no longer capable of playing center, but here it is again.

Gurode never took another starting snap in the NFL as a center.

What's that tell you? Or should I say what does that tell someone without an agenda who thinks rationally?

Yeah I don't think that Gurode had another non-injury based start at any position, and was cut after one year by teams he's signed with. He was too slow at processing information, and had numerous issues with bad shotgun snaps, etc. Regardless of the wisdom of starting Costa, Gurode needed to go. He and Davis were a stunting defensive coordinator's dream.
 

burmafrd

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I'm not how many times you need to hear that Gurode was no longer capable of playing center, but here it is again.

Gurode never took another starting snap in the NFL as a center.

What's that tell you? Or should I say what does that tell someone without an agenda who thinks rationally?


as usual your reading comprehension is poor. I made the point that Costa was not ready or able to do the job. But of course you really want to avoid talking about Costa 2011, right?
 

MichaelWinicki

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as usual your reading comprehension is poor. I made the point that Costa was not ready or able to do the job. But of course you really want to avoid talking about Costa 2011, right?

It was only a bad Costa and Kowalski who could center for the Cowboys in 2011.

Gurode was incapable.
 

burmafrd

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It was only a bad Costa and Kowalski who could center for the Cowboys in 2011.

Gurode was incapable.

love how your idea of reality and 'facts' interact. Keep it going; I could use some more of your so called facts- I need a laugh.
 
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