Sturm: Morning After: Developments on the Offensive Line in Canton

[TheRat]

Arkin reminds me of Kosier when he first came here.

 

[Idgit]

You said a lot without saying anything.

Phil Costa is a stiff. The fact that Jerry and Stephen Jones extended him means nothing as to what kind of player he is. They could write a series of books on their bad personnel decisions. Save that kind of stuff for the Ozzie Newsomes and Ron Wolfs of the league.

I could play that same game and say the twins went out and used their 1st round pick on his replacement. Showing what kind of player he isn't. But who cares? Nobody with any sense would use one of their decisions to validate a player's ability. Watch the play on the field. He can't play and won't ever be able to play.

Got it. I didn't realize you'd seen him play and decided the opposite.

And it does speak volumes that they drafted Frederick in the first. Clearly, they like him better there and don't want to risk being handicapped at the C position this season. But they also extended Costa, with the input of the coaching staff and the pro scouting department. Your evaluation of the player is just flat wrong.

 

[mschmidt64]

Got it. I didn't realize you'd seen him play and decided the opposite.

And it does speak volumes that they drafted Frederick in the first. Clearly, they like him better there and don't want to risk being handicapped at the C position this season. But they also extended Costa, with the input of the coaching staff and the pro scouting department. Your evaluation of the player is just flat wrong.

:lol

 

[bayeslife]

:lol

Yikes.

Hopefully with Fred at center we can actually net positive runs on the ground this year.

 

[percyhoward]

From 2008-2010, no team drafted fewer offensive linemen than the Cowboys.

And in 2010, the Cowboys had the oldest offensive line in the NFL.

 

[Ultimategamer5567]

From 2008-2010, no team drafted fewer offensive linemen than the Cowboys.

And in 2010, the Cowboys had the oldest offensive line in the NFL.

Big difference three years can make.

 

[jterrell]

Big difference three years can make.

The (5 or 6) years preceding 2008 Dallas had used a HIGH number of reasonably HIGH picks on OL and simply missed on them. Al Johnson, Peterman, Rogers, Marten et al.
So they bought high priced free agents.
Combine your own former draft picks that were hits (see andre gurode) age and bringing in guys like leonard davis, kyler kosier and you get old fast.

In 2010 they drafted 3 OL. They were trying to get younger and better but outside smith they KNEW those rookies would need work.

Regardless of what anyone thinks teams don't re-tool over night and fix every hole.

As to the Sturm take it's good anaylsis but yes the 3 year whine is silly and misplaced. A good OL wouldn't have saved this team from a crumbling defense with atrocious CB and Safety play.
It wouldn't have made Miles hammy any better. Or kept Murray or Lee healthy.
Improving ANY area of this team would have helped but 8-8 teams tend to have lots of holes and this one has.
And the fact is bad OLs like in such hard for Sturm to be aware of places as Green Bay won lots of and lots of games....
So easy for anyone to claim ownership over some major magic fix for a team finishing middle of the pack... but you give me two plus safeties and I'll argue you make the playoffs all the past 3 seasons.
See how easy that is to do? Aren't we all GMs now?

FWIW I think it is clear Leary has starting ability. He may not be ready this year and he may not be a long-term starter but he's clearly a solid member of the OL.
Frederick is more than ready to start. He'll be a plus player IMHO.
Not sure what Sturm saw of Frederick that was bad at OG. I didn't see that and watched the game 3 times now.
Free looks to have bounced back to at least a bad starting RT.
Hey, that's far better than worst OT in football which he was working hard to cement first 10 or so games last year.

What was most clear in the HOF game is OL was NOT an issue.
If those back up QBs could have hit wide open guys in the end zone the team scores 30+.

 

[Idgit]

:lol

Yeah. This gets trotted out in every Costa debate. This game was in his sixth game as a starter as a second year player where the exploited his tendency to not get set quickly enough. This was the primary adjustment he made later in the season when his level of play improved.

Nobody, as far as I know, claims the second year starter who shocked everybody and beat Gurode out in camp was going to step in without growing pains. He got owned in this game, and I think everybody saw it.

 

[Risen Star]

Got it. I didn't realize you'd seen him play and decided the opposite.

And it does speak volumes that they drafted Frederick in the first. Clearly, they like him better there and don't want to risk being handicapped at the C position this season. But they also extended Costa, with the input of the coaching staff and the pro scouting department. Your evaluation of the player is just flat wrong.

Yes. It's wrong. I've been way off on Costa. Meanwhile the folks that have loved him have been right. He's clearly heading for stardom riding our bench before eventually moving on.

The team thought so much of his scary talent that they burned a 1st round pick on a C they felt they had to have. They felt they had to have him because their current C is an NFL Europe-like prospect who has no future in the NFL.

Phil Costa will never be a productive player. He is Torrin Tucker. He is Rob Petitti. Mark it down. Forget all about it when I'm right. Again.

 

[Risen Star]

:lol

Absolutely embarrassing.

Sometimes your team employs stiffs. It's best to just admit it and move on. The guy can not play and you can't fix why. He'll always be overwhelmed by power because he'll never win the leverage game with his frame.

 

[Risen Star]

Yeah. This gets trotted out in every Costa debate. This game was in his sixth game as a starter as a second year player where the exploited his tendency to not get set quickly enough. This was the primary adjustment he made later in the season when his level of play improved.

Nobody, as far as I know, claims the second year starter who shocked everybody and beat Gurode out in camp was going to step in without growing pains. He got owned in this game, and I think everybody saw it.

Doesn't matter when it was. It shows a glaring lack of NFL ability. He doesn't belong in the league.

Travis Frederick played his first game Sunday. He did not get manhandled like that. Because he has NFL talent. Costa doesn't.

 

[Risen Star]

The only reason why you can't put together another long lowlight reel of Costa from last year is because he didn't play.

This has worked out well for him. Disappear now and you can claim injuries got you. Half our fan base will believe him. The other half knows what's going on.

 

[Idgit]

Yes. It's wrong. I've been way off on Costa. Meanwhile the folks that have loved him have been right. He's clearly heading for stardom riding our bench before eventually moving on...

Stardom? Who said anything about stardom? You're the one who said he was the worst player you remember seeing in recent memory and that he had no place on an NFL roster. Don't move the goalposts just because it's apparent you put them in the wrong place, Risen.

 

[Risen Star]

Stardom? Who said anything about stardom? You're the one who said he was the worst player you remember seeing in recent memory and that he had no place on an NFL roster. Don't move the goalposts just because it's apparent you put them in the wrong place, Risen.

He's the worst penciled in starter I've ever seen on the team. I've never seen a guy so physically out matched to play the game at this level as he is. It's like a fan has run out on the field and played C for us.

Forget stardom. He will never be a productive NFL player. We are wasting time with him.

 

[Risen Star]

BTW, I said that three years ago. He's done nothing since to prove me wrong.

That's the one plus to this offseason. They absolutely had to get Costa off the field and they did.

 

[5Stars]

BTW, I said that three years ago. He's done nothing since to prove me wrong.

That's the one plus to this offseason. They absolutely had to get Costa off the field and they did.

So I take it that you liked the Frederick pick?

 

[5Stars]

So I take it that you liked the Frederick pick?

lmao

I guess the Risen Star has me on ignore. Oh, well, join the crowd.

 

[xwalker]

In the 1st half, Fred was fine in the snaps that he took at Guard and Costa was fine at Center. I have not evaluated the 2nd half yet.

 

[Risen Star]

Arkin reminds me of Kosier when he first came here.

Really? Kyle Kosier was an established veteran player when he came to Dallas. Nothing like the work in progress that is Arkin.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I always face the brutal truth

and you play Tom Cruise very well


meanwhile I have things to do. Have fun

OK, what's the truth? OK, say Free isn't the best OL in camp so far (even though arguably it could be said that he has been) he's had a very good camp. If you wan

Really? Kyle Kosier was an established veteran player when he came to Dallas. Nothing like the work in progress that is Arkin.

True.

Arkin would need to up his game to get to Kosier level.