Twitter: Sturm on Zeke contract

[DuncanIso]

If this team can't win a single game without Zeke, then it isn't a contender in the first place, so your point is moot. Paying a RB 15M a year is idiotic regardless of who the player is.

You don’t remember when Emmitt held out?

1993 anyone?

It’s happened before.

Again, we pay Zeke now. Or he holds out and we start 0-2. And then we pay him.

 

[Doomsday101]

Zeke has already started to slow down...ala Earl Campbell. If we were smart...we would trade him right now..and draft this kid in the 2nd.

Miles Sanders RB Penn St.

I don't think he has slowed down at all. I get it many here would dump him on the trash heap tomorrow if you could. Fact is he has not dealt with injury and the whole BS of all RB slow down if they carry x number of times is stupid. Those they point at all were heavly impacted by injury not their carries. If choose to believe otherwise well that is fine I don't buy it. Zeke total yards last season was his highest total and 4.7 a carry is still an impressive number at RB.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I don't think he has slowed down at all. I get it many here would dump him on the trash heap tomorrow if you could. Fact is he has not dealt with injury and the whole BS of all RB slow down if they carry x number of times is stupid. Those they point at all were heavly impacted by injury not their carries. If choose to believe otherwise well that is fine I don't buy it. Zeke total yards last season was his highest total and 4.7 a carry is still an impressive number at RB.

Look it up, there's data for it. Just a few names from the last decade that came to me off my head:

Shaun Alexander blew out his knee after about 1700 carries, and was out of the league after 2100 carries.
Edgerrin James was released after about 2200 carries with the Colts, and he never went over 4 YPC again.
LaDanian Tomlinson had about 2300 carries before he started rushing for under 4 YPC.
Steven Jackson made it to 2300 carries before he left St. Louis, and was completely washed when he went to Atlanta.
Burner Turner made it to 1700 career carries and was totally done by the end of it, although in fairness the Falcons gave him multiple 350+ carry seasons that are known to drastically shorten a running back's "lifespan".
Maurice Jones-Drew broke down around 1700 and was out of the league with 1800.
San Francisco let Frank Gore walk after 2400 carries, although he's still going with an astonishing 3,384 career carries.

So on the whole, 2100 carries plus or minus a season is a good historical barometer for an RB's peak shelf life. None of those guys were injury prone; I left out guys like Brian Westbrook and Arian Foster who were pretty much just injuries waiting to happen. Aside from Alexander's knee, they all kind of just wore out. Except for Gore; Gore's got that Favre / Emmitt gene where he just ain't fully human.

There's nothing magical about the 2100 figure, it's mostly just tied to age and workload, but for a 300-350 carry a year kind of feature back I think it makes a decent estimate.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I don't think he has slowed down at all. I get it many here would dump him on the trash heap tomorrow if you could. Fact is he has not dealt with injury and the whole BS of all RB slow down if they carry x number of times is stupid. Those they point at all were heavly impacted by injury not their carries. If choose to believe otherwise well that is fine I don't buy it. Zeke total yards last season was his highest total and 4.7 a carry is still an impressive number at RB.

Zeke was a volume rusher last year. On a per snap basis his efficiency was not what you'd like and he left a lot of... Ahem... Meat on the bone.

His long speed is gone. And we're already baying him during the practice week.

We're about to set this franchise back when we give Zeke and Dak big deals.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Wonder how long he can hunker down with no pay.

I think his suspension unguaranteed his rookie contract. Any other impact from his suspension on a holdout?

If they want to play hardball, can't Jerry claw back prorated signing bonus for the suspension and holdouts?

 

[nightrain]

I think his suspension unguaranteed his rookie contract. Any other impact from his suspension on a holdout?

If they want to play hardball, can't Jerry claw back prorated signing bonus for the suspension and holdouts?

Good questions. Would love to see the language.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Look it up, there's data for it. Just a few names from the last decade that came to me off my head:

Shaun Alexander blew out his knee after about 1700 carries, and was out of the league after 2100 carries.
Edgerrin James was released after about 2200 carries with the Colts, and he never went over 4 YPC again.
LaDanian Tomlinson had about 2300 carries before he started rushing for under 4 YPC.
Steven Jackson made it to 2300 carries before he left St. Louis, and was completely washed when he went to Atlanta.
Burner Turner made it to 1700 career carries and was totally done by the end of it, although in fairness the Falcons gave him multiple 350+ carry seasons that are known to drastically shorten a running back's "lifespan".
Maurice Jones-Drew broke down around 1700 and was out of the league with 1800.
San Francisco let Frank Gore walk after 2400 carries, although he's still going with an astonishing 3,384 career carries.

So on the whole, 2100 carries plus or minus a season is a good historical barometer for an RB's peak shelf life. None of those guys were injury prone; I left out guys like Brian Westbrook and Arian Foster who were pretty much just injuries waiting to happen. Aside from Alexander's knee, they all kind of just wore out. Except for Gore; Gore's got that Favre / Emmitt gene where he just ain't fully human.

There's nothing magical about the 2100 figure, it's mostly just tied to age and workload, but for a 300-350 carry a year kind of feature back I think it makes a decent estimate.

Anyone factor in receptions? Relative to 2016 (full season) Zeke's receptions went up 45 while rushing attempts dropped 18. I'd guess that receptions are less punishment than running through the dline, but I've never seen analysis.

Looks like you can get 6 or 7 good seasons out of a bell cow. Given Zeke's style, I think he'd be shy of that. 5 or 6. He's more physical, avoids contact less, and is made to run a lot of short yardage. 3 years down already. We're on the back half of his productive years. This year should be a good year with the oline solidified and deep.

Sanders was one freaky dude. His 10th year was a little down, but his 9th was over 6 yards a carry and 128 yards a game. I bet he had a few more high quality seasons in him.

 

[DuncanIso]

Pay Zeke.

He's earned a pay raise.

 

[Rockport]

Pay Zeke.

He's earned a pay raise.

And pay him now. The way he runs the ball will limit his career.

 

[Doomsday101]

Zeke was a volume rusher last year. On a per snap basis his efficiency was not what you'd like and he left a lot of... Ahem... Meat on the bone.

His long speed is gone. And we're already baying him during the practice week.

We're about to set this franchise back when we give Zeke and Dak big deals.

and that is your view your entitled to it. I think Zeke has a lot left and I think a better passing attack will help him out a lot but right now he is the prime focus of every team the Cowboys face and still putting up very good numbers. I don't see Zeke or Dak holding this team back they have been a main reason this team has won the east 2 of the 3 years they have been part of this team.

 

[Doomsday101]

Look it up, there's data for it. Just a few names from the last decade that came to me off my head:

Shaun Alexander blew out his knee after about 1700 carries, and was out of the league after 2100 carries.
Edgerrin James was released after about 2200 carries with the Colts, and he never went over 4 YPC again.
LaDanian Tomlinson had about 2300 carries before he started rushing for under 4 YPC.
Steven Jackson made it to 2300 carries before he left St. Louis, and was completely washed when he went to Atlanta.
Burner Turner made it to 1700 career carries and was totally done by the end of it, although in fairness the Falcons gave him multiple 350+ carry seasons that are known to drastically shorten a running back's "lifespan".
Maurice Jones-Drew broke down around 1700 and was out of the league with 1800.
San Francisco let Frank Gore walk after 2400 carries, although he's still going with an astonishing 3,384 career carries.

So on the whole, 2100 carries plus or minus a season is a good historical barometer for an RB's peak shelf life. None of those guys were injury prone; I left out guys like Brian Westbrook and Arian Foster who were pretty much just injuries waiting to happen. Aside from Alexander's knee, they all kind of just wore out. Except for Gore; Gore's got that Favre / Emmitt gene where he just ain't fully human.

There's nothing magical about the 2100 figure, it's mostly just tied to age and workload, but for a 300-350 carry a year kind of feature back I think it makes a decent estimate.

I have and every one dealt with major injuries or off the field issue or both.

Edgerrin James tore his ACL in 2001
LaDanian Tomlinson Knee and ankle injuries that
Steven Jackson has several injuries including a knee injury coming out of college.

Why did Emmitt produce as he did? He did not deal with many injuries

 

[blueblood70]

No way you pay Zeke more than Gurleys contract. This team will be in terrible shape if they do that. Might as well draft a RB this year.

true and im glad bell didnt get fully what he was looking for and the Cowboys would be smart to use that contract as the new structure as Bell and Zeke on the same level, Gurleys was mistake, the Rams know this now and no way RBs should get that kind of money as they dont, lie QBs play into their mid 30s to 40s..they have short term careers and get beat up..Bells Contract is fair for a Elite RB..Gurleys was a Huge mistake and not the norm..thats not the market..

 

[blueblood70]

Look it up, there's data for it. Just a few names from the last decade that came to me off my head:

Shaun Alexander blew out his knee after about 1700 carries, and was out of the league after 2100 carries.
Edgerrin James was released after about 2200 carries with the Colts, and he never went over 4 YPC again.
LaDanian Tomlinson had about 2300 carries before he started rushing for under 4 YPC.
Steven Jackson made it to 2300 carries before he left St. Louis, and was completely washed when he went to Atlanta.
Burner Turner made it to 1700 career carries and was totally done by the end of it, although in fairness the Falcons gave him multiple 350+ carry seasons that are known to drastically shorten a running back's "lifespan".
Maurice Jones-Drew broke down around 1700 and was out of the league with 1800.
San Francisco let Frank Gore walk after 2400 carries, although he's still going with an astonishing 3,384 career carries.

So on the whole, 2100 carries plus or minus a season is a good historical barometer for an RB's peak shelf life. None of those guys were injury prone; I left out guys like Brian Westbrook and Arian Foster who were pretty much just injuries waiting to happen. Aside from Alexander's knee, they all kind of just wore out. Except for Gore; Gore's got that Favre / Emmitt gene where he just ain't fully human.

There's nothing magical about the 2100 figure, it's mostly just tied to age and workload, but for a 300-350 carry a year kind of feature back I think it makes a decent estimate.

how many carrys is AP at AFTER his blown Knee and looked what he did to us?AP has 2825 carries and counting and he had major knee injury and still going pretty well.. I realize theres a line for most but Zeke could be in the pass the line guy..no one knows..he does have to STOP the Hurdling..!! its th eonly thing thats bruised him up ..

 

[Toruk_Makto]

and that is your view your entitled to it. I think Zeke has a lot left and I think a better passing attack will help him out a lot but right now he is the prime focus of every team the Cowboys face and still putting up very good numbers. I don't see Zeke or Dak holding this team back they have been a main reason this team has won the east 2 of the 3 years they have been part of this team.

We keep saying Zeke is prime focus of opposing teams and yet he doesn't face stacked boxes more than other rushers on average.

Also, it can be true that Zeke was principally involved in past success and that we shouldn't sign him going forward. You know that right?

 

[Doomsday101]

We keep saying Zeke is prime focus of opposing teams and yet he doesn't face stacked boxes more than other rushers on average.

Also, it can be true that Zeke was principally involved in past success and that we shouldn't sign him going forward. You know that right?

Zeke is 23 years old 2 time leading rusher in the NFL and put up more all-purpose yards this past season than he did the 1st 2 season he has played. Injuries he has not sustained any outside the normal bumps and bruises all get in this game. You have your view and I have mine.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Anyone factor in receptions? Relative to 2016 (full season) Zeke's receptions went up 45 while rushing attempts dropped 18. I'd guess that receptions are less punishment than running through the dline, but I've never seen analysis.

Looks like you can get 6 or 7 good seasons out of a bell cow. Given Zeke's style, I think he'd be shy of that. 5 or 6. He's more physical, avoids contact less, and is made to run a lot of short yardage. 3 years down already. We're on the back half of his productive years. This year should be a good year with the oline solidified and deep.

Sanders was one freaky dude. His 10th year was a little down, but his 9th was over 6 yards a carry and 128 yards a game. I bet he had a few more high quality seasons in him.

Interestingly enough, they had another article called The Curse of 370 (how many carries can you feed an RB in a season before you literally break him), and they found there was no real correlation to an RB's health and the number of receptions he had. Got googling for the 2100 article and couldn't find it, but I did run across the 370 paper.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2007/370-carries-revisited

Let's examine each question in turn. The first issue is whether "touches" are a better measure of workload than carries, with touches equaling the total of each back's carries and receptions for a given year. From 1978 through 2004, 60 running backs had seasons of at least 340 carries. Comparing the number of carries for each running back with the number of yards he gained the following year gives us a correlation coefficient of -.24. In other words, as players carry the ball more, they are less likely to run for as many yards the following year, due to a mixture of lost effectiveness and injury. If we want to measure only effectiveness (yards per carry) or playing time (total carries) the correlations are similar.

If we take the same 60 running backs and compare touches to yards the following year, the correlations are roughly half as large. This suggests that carries are a better indicator of workload than touches. Compare just receptions to rushing yards the following year, not even considering carries, and it is clear why: the correlation between receptions and yards the following year is actually positive, albeit tiny. If more receptions indicate anything, it is that a player will gain more yards the following year, in particular more yards per carry.

 

[beware_d-ware]

how many carrys is AP at AFTER his blown Knee and looked what he did to us?AP has 2825 carries and counting and he had major knee injury and still going pretty well.. I realize theres a line for most but Zeke could be in the pass the line guy..no one knows..he does have to STOP the Hurdling..!! its th eonly thing thats bruised him up ..

AP just finished cranking out a 1000 yard season at 33, which is pretty freaky in its own right, but would you pay $15 million a year for what he gives you right now? That's what we're trying to determine with Zeke here - how long is he likely to be worth top dollar.

The exact length of a player's career is more or less down to luck, but if you want to talk about the time when they go from Stud to Not A Stud, it looks fairy predictable.

 

[Floatyworm]

I don't think he has slowed down at all. I get it many here would dump him on the trash heap tomorrow if you could. Fact is he has not dealt with injury and the whole BS of all RB slow down if they carry x number of times is stupid. Those they point at all were heavly impacted by injury not their carries. If choose to believe otherwise well that is fine I don't buy it. Zeke total yards last season was his highest total and 4.7 a carry is still an impressive number at RB.

Did I mention the guy is a bonehead...and the league has already suspended him? He's already got a strike against him..and is a target to be a repeat offender. Just cut bait now while he still has some value.

 

[Doomsday101]

Did I mention the guy is a bonehead...and the league has already suspended him? He's already got a strike against him..and is a target to be a repeat offender. Just cut bait now while he still has some value.

I think Zeke got the raw end of the deal when the NFL lead investigator said she saw no reason for any suspension yet Goodell did so anyways.

NFL lead investigator Kia Roberts testified this week that she recommended that Elliott not be suspended for his alleged domestic violence incidence.

Not only did Roberts play a key role in the Elliott case, but she was the only NFL employee who spoke to Elliott's accuser, Tiffany Thompson, during the 13-month investigation.

Using findings from Roberts' investigation, the NFL decided to give Elliott a six-game suspension. In the league's final report on the Elliott investigation, which was released on August 11, the NFL justified Elliott's suspension by mentioning that he had caused injuries to Thompson on at least three occasions.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...tt-case-reportedly-recommended-no-suspension/

What the hell? how can any person defend themselves and you want to put in on Zeke for something that there was no evidence to support?

 

[dogunwo]

Probably, but I wouldn’t say he’s not stupid. How did that work out for Bell?

I'd say it worked out well. He preserved a year on his body, earned very good money, and did not reward the team that jerked around with him with services. There's a lot of smoke going on with the Steelers that indicates that problems go way beyond pay. But you're a player hater unless they act like a robot and bend over for the team at every turn. This is professional sports, not the military.