Switching to 4-3

[LatinMind]

either way, im ecited for this next game. i been waiting 2 yrs for this day that they switch back to a 4-3. they're really built for it better. they were never really a 3-4, they're players werent aggresive enough to play it.

they actually played down the skills of ware, ferguson, ratliff, sears and roy with that 3-4.

ware, while he's a decent cover lb'er the guyis just awsome rushing the passer. rushing him 100% of the time? who wouldnt love that. i can see why he didnt last yr he wasnt big enough, this yr u can tell he's bigger, i say he's close to 265. i think ware is going to eat that lions Ol alive.

ferguson while he's a monster in that middle 3-4, imagine him with more beef next to him. i want to see ratliff and ferguson together inside. IMO ratliff needs to be on the field starting. he makes plays.

spears while i dont like him as a DE, he's better suited for a 4-3 because he's not as strong as u would like him to be. i think u could see a sack or 2 from him.

actually im hoping to see something out of carpenter sunday in this 4-3. move akin to the strong side james in the middle and let carp go wild on the weakside. if he's what he and parcells think he is let him prove it. and on obvious passing downs, bring in burnett, and take out james

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Our pass rush was slightly better with Ellis, but it wasn't in the "good" category. Teams weren't throwing with such great success on passes out on the flats and Zimmer can't figure that out. Also, earlier in the year we were still awful at disguising blitzes. We turned things around a bit in the disguise for a few games...right after the second Washington game...but now the blitz disguise is as bad as ever.

I could live going with the 4-3 if we had Shanle (a guy we deeply miss because even though he's weak against the run, he's a good cover guy and blitzes well). But w/o Shanle we really don't have the personnel for the 4-3 and we'd be taking Ware out of his most effective position and Spears and James would be *worse off*.


YAKUZA

All good points. I just think that trying it out for 10 or so plays per half to mix things up is worth a look at this stage. If it doesn't work, it will surely be because of the reasons you state. If it does work, great.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Somewhere Nors head just exploded.

You know I was thinking the same thing.

First Bledsoe and now his beloved "3-4". :laugh2:

 

[dmq]

Does all this mean that Jerry is gonna fire Bill since he only wants a coach that runs a 3-4 defense?

 

[Cbz40]

You know I was thinking the same thing.

First Bledsoe and now his beloved "3-4". :laugh2:

I bet he (Nors) is...... & :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I bet he (Nors) is...... & :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

Morning Pops!

 

[Cbz40]

Morning Pops!

And a Good Morning to you Michael...Have a great day.

 

[Doomsday]

How does this help the fact our Safeties can't cover?

We ran the 4-3 the last time in the playoffs.....remember, when Steve Smith and Carolina exposed our secondary in the playoffs?

If they can get to the QB in less then the usual 20 seconds maybe the secondary can stay with their man.

I think this move makes some sense because other then Ware all the best pass rushers are backup linemen, none of the LBs have gotten to the QB with any type of regularity. They have to try something.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

All I can say is that I'm big on the 4-3. We're getting chewed up on 1st down passes because:

1. Canty and Spears can't rush the passer.
2. Our second best pass-rusher is on the bench (Hatcher).

Let Canty/Spears/Ferguson share the DT position.

Let Ware/Hatcher/Ratliff share the DE position.

 

[WoodysGirl]

All I can say is that I'm big on the 4-3. We're getting chewed up on 1st down passes because:

1. Canty and Spears can't rush the passer.
2. Our second best pass-rusher is on the bench (Hatcher).

Let Canty/Spears/Ferguson share the DT position.

Let Ware/Hatcher/Ratliff share the DE position.

I think we'll see more Hatcher on the field. The problem with Rat is he hasn't practiced all week. So if he doesn't get on the field today, he won't play on Sun.

Whatever is done, I'm glad that Parcells is attempting to do something about it, just sad it took 17 weeks to get him motivated. I don't see a wholesale switch to 4-3 though. Prolly some player movement. And one thing he mentioned in the PC was activating Parrish for more pass rush. Wonder how that would work with him in the game.

Could be while there aren't any "obvious" injuries, the D is pretty beat up and not as effective as they were earlier in the season.

 

[Cliff]

Put De-Nightmare94 at middle-LB and bench bradie james!!!!

Amen, brother!

 

[Cliff]

Oh, YES, the 4-3 is BACK!.... 'nuff with that nyg 3 man front crap.... old-school it - TOM LANDRY STYLE!!!! - ya'll know... tell me ya'll know who the creator of the famed 4-3 front is, right?

 

[dboyz]

I love the people that think the 4-3 is the answer. Ware is better rushing the passer standing up, it's pretty clear and evident that he is. And the last year we had the 4-3 was in 2004, and it was the worst defense we've had in probably the last 15-20 years. Plus going to the 4-3 would put guys even in a worse position, especially since we have nobody for the WILL Backer spot and James would be even more out of position since he would be required to play more coverage. Oh yeah, that puts Spears out of position as well.

I don't think we'd be a great pass rushing team in the 3-4 with Ellis out. But the main issue isn't the scheme as much as it is Zimmer...his inability to get his players to disguise a defense and his unwillingness to stunt on occasion. Some blame Parcells, but Belichick disguised blitzes and stunted under Parcells and for a conservative type of coach, Parcells doesn't have any problems being creative and aggressive on offense.



YAKUZA

I respect your opinions Rich, but I disagree. First the 4-3 is no panacea, and I don't think anyone's suggesting that. IF they are, that's wrong. I'm sure we won't scrap the 3-4 altogether. In fact I'm guessing that will still be our primary defense, but we'll be able to show some 4-3 looks.

As far as the 2004 defense our personnel has significantly improved. In the 4-3 Ferguson was a pretty good player with the Jets. He could even collapse the pocket a bit. I'm guessing whoever is next to him will have a single man to beat.

Ware may be better standing up, but I also like to see him attacking the quarterback which he will have more opportunities to do in the 4-3.

I don't see how it puts Spears out of position. He played DE before in a 4-3 and was effective in college.

 

[Bleu Star]

Put De-Nightmare94 at middle-LB and bench bradie james!!!!

WOW! I totally missed this post. I must have been feverishly at work trying to defend that dude with all 8 of my tentacles.

This is a brilliant idea! Just plain brilliant. Put you difference maker in the middle where he can cover the field sideline to sideline. Awesome idea man. Bradie James has been very underwhelming this year for the most part.

 

[dbair1967]

I respect your opinions Rich, but I disagree. First the 4-3 is no panacea, and I don't think anyone's suggesting that. IF they are, that's wrong. I'm sure we won't scrap the 3-4 altogether. In fact I'm guessing that will still be our primary defense, but we'll be able to show some 4-3 looks.

As far as the 2004 defense our personnel has significantly improved. In the 4-3 Ferguson was a pretty good player with the Jets. He could even collapse the pocket a bit. I'm guessing whoever is next to him will have a single man to beat.

Ware may be better standing up, but I also like to see him attacking the quarterback which he will have more opportunities to do in the 4-3.

I don't see how it puts Spears out of position. He played DE before in a 4-3 and was effective in college.

I agree

I cant believe anyone thinks that BECAUSE we were a 4-3 defense in 2004, it was bad...that team had alot of issues, including no healthy CB's and no pass rusher save Ellis

Parcells changed to the 3-4 because he said it was easier to find pressure players that fit that scheme...he said it would be less predictiable and tougher for offenses to figure out...that may be true with teams like new England or San Diego, but not with his version of it

honestly the players we have all fit the 4-3 defense better IMO anyway, the only one who might not be better off is Canty...even Jason Ferguson says he prefers playing DT in the 4-3

David

 

[MarkBrunell]

Akin Ayodele played WLB in Jacksonville. Bradie James was a MLB in LSU and Bobby Carpenter took a lot of snaps at SLB for the Bucks.

btw the 4-3 is one of the worst formations for pass rushing unless you have a monster DE and a monster DT.

 

[lspain1]

I have no idea if this approach, if that is indeed what we are doing, will solve anything at all. Our front seven will still be the front seven with perhaps one or two face changes. However, things have been bad enough that I can't see how it can get much worse and just maybe things will get better.

 

[Concord]

Bring back the 4-3. The 3-4 sucks...I hate it and it has nothing to do with Parcells or Zimmer.

 

[burmafrd]

Does not matter whether its the 3-4 or 4-3; if you do not have good pass rushers you are toast.

 

[dogberry]

Did the Patriots use a 2-5-4 against the Eagles in the Super Bowl?