T.O. and the Ring Of Honor...

[DallasEast]

I love T.O. but no ring of honor for him.

You belong to an elite minority.

 

[5Stars]

Well, I don't want to say that T.O. in the Ring Of Honor is a stupid question, but, that's a damn stupid question!!

Never, ever will that happen...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Troy Aikman. Played 12 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Tony Dorsett. Played 12 seasons. All but one with the Cowboys.
Cliff Harris. Played 10 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Bob Hayes. Played 11 seasons. All but one with the Cowboys.
Chuck Howley. Played 15 seasons. All but two with the Cowboys.
Michael Irvin. Played 12 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Lee Roy Jordan. Played 14 seasons. All with the Cowboys.

Tom Landry. Not debatable.

Bob Lilly. Played 14 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Don Meredith. Played 9 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Don Perkins. Played 8 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Mel Renfro. Played 14 seasons. All with the Cowboys.

Tex Schramm. see Tom Landry.

Emmitt Smith. Played 15 seasons. All but two with the Cowboys.
Roger Staubach. Played 11 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Randy White. Played 14 seasons. All with the Cowboys.
Rayfield Wright. Played 13 seasons. All with the Cowboys.

***

2006: Terrell Owens. Played 11 seasons. All but one with San Francisco or Philadelphia.
2007: Terrell Owens. Played 12 seasons. All but two with San Francisco or Philadelphia.
2008: Terrell Owens. Will have played 13 seasons. All but three with San Francisco or Philadelphia.
2009?: Terrell Owens. Will have played 14 seasons. All but four with San Francisco or Philadelphia.
2010?: Terrell Owens. Will have played 15 seasons. All but five with San Francisco or Philadelphia.
2011?: Terrell Owens. Will have played 16 seasons. All but six with San Francisco or Philadelphia.

***


It ain’t happening. Yet, if it SHOULD happen, somebody better get Lance Alworth, Herb Adderley and Mike Ditka in the Ring of Honor AHEAD of him.

Yeah I kinda figured that it would something like that... he doesnt/wont have enough years to even qualify. The only unrealistic possibility based on the above would be if he played for us for 10 years and passed Jerry Rice's all time TD receptions of 197? He would have to have the bulk of his success with us for a decade or so.... Or... if we win 5 SB's in a row

 

[AmishCowboy]

A Great player, but not enough Years as a Cowboy, otherwise we would have to consider Deion as well.

 

[Undisputed]

Really depends I guess. I mean if he was a dominant force in getting us multiple Superbowls then of course I would have to wonder. And of course there are other things to consider. I mean, how much of a Cowboy does it "feel" that TO is by the end of his career? After winning those SBs would he still feel like a simple hired gun? Has he has indeed "turned over a new leaf" and become a real team player?

Oh and BTW, Tony Romo is a lock! I have officially annointed him.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I guess the biggest question here is in the age of free agency, will we ever change our standards on getting into the ROH. From a player standpoint, would you rather play for another team for more money and better position for yourself, or stay with the Boys to get in the ROH. Think the choice is rather obvious.

Larry Allen will get in and will probably have the most years not being a Cowboy from the above table of past ROHers. I figure this trend will increase as time goes on. When we start inducting players cause they were here for forever, instead of the better players, we will be in a sad situation. This ain't the 1960s, good players will leave, and I feel that the Cowboys will have to adjust to this situation.

As for TO, nah, he won't get in. But in the future, this situation will have to be talked about more in depth and addressed. As we start taking great players that left and played 4 or 5 years somewhere else into the ROH (very naive to think that this won't happen in today's age), there will be some players who will be caught in the middle of the change of freedom for players to do what is best for them.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Really depends I guess. I mean if he was a dominant force in getting us multiple Superbowls then of course I would have to wonder. And of course there are other things to consider. I mean, how much of a Cowboy does it "feel" that TO is by the end of his career? After winning those SBs would he still feel like a simple hired gun? Has he has indeed "turned over a new leaf" and become a real team player?

Oh and BTW, Tony Romo is a lock! I have officially annointed him.

You want to crown him... go ahead... CROWN HIM! :laugh2:

 

[DallasEast]

I guess the biggest question here is in the age of free agency, will we ever change our standards on getting into the ROH. From a player standpoint, would you rather play for another team for more money and better position for yourself, or stay with the Boys to get in the ROH. Think the choice is rather obvious.

Larry Allen will get in and will probably have the most years not being a Cowboy from the above table of past ROHers. I figure this trend will increase as time goes on. When we start inducting players cause they were here for forever, instead of the better players, we will be in a sad situation. This ain't the 1960s, good players will leave, and I feel that the Cowboys will have to adjust to this situation.

As for TO, nah, he won't get in. But in the future, this situation will have to be talked about more in depth and addressed. As we start taking great players that left and played 4 or 5 years somewhere else into the ROH (very naive to think that this won't happen in today's age), there will be some players who will be caught in the middle of the change of freedom for players to do what is best for them.

Okay.

Larry Allen's 35. He's entering his 2nd season with the 49ers, which will only be his second season of being a non-Cowboy after 12 seasons in Dallas.

Let's say that Allen plays until he's 40. Let's also say that he stays in San Francisco for the next five seasons. That would give him six or seven full seasons played outside of Dallas. IMO, that will not diminish the fact that he established himself as a highly successful Cowboy for over a decade before he left Dallas. Even if he switches teams before retiring, he will have made the biggest impact as a Cowboy during his career first--not secondly.

Player movement will effect Ring of Honor consideration in the future, but I think that it will follow a set pattern:

1. The player will begin his career in Dallas OR he will come to Dallas shortly after being drafted into the league (see Chuck Howley).

2. The player will have the majority of his success in a Cowboys uniform before he enjoys very good or great success outside of Dallas.

3. The (overwhelming) bulk of the player's career years with Dallas will be at the beginning of his career and not at the middle or end of his career.

JMO.

 

[Big Dakota]

Don't EVER use T.O and R.O.H. in the same sentence!:bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Okay.

Larry Allen's 35. He's entering his 2nd season with the 49ers, which will only be his second season of being a non-Cowboy after 12 seasons in Dallas.

Let's say that Allen plays until he's 40. Let's also say that he stays in San Francisco for the next five seasons. That would give him six or seven full seasons played outside of Dallas. IMO, that will not diminish the fact that he established himself as a highly successful Cowboy for over a decade before he left Dallas. Even if he switches teams before retiring, he will have made the biggest impact as a Cowboy during his career first--not secondly.

Player movement will effect Ring of Honor consideration in the future, but I think that it will follow a set pattern:

1. The player will begin his career in Dallas OR he will come to Dallas shortly after being drafted into the league (see Chuck Howley).

2. The player will have the majority of his success in a Cowboys uniform before he enjoys very good or great success outside of Dallas.

3. The (overwhelming) bulk of the player's career years with Dallas will be at the beginning of his career and not at the middle or end of his career.

JMO.

True. My only point is that it is more complicated right now than it was in the past. Free agency and the salary cap will have a huge effect on lifetime Cowboy players. The effect was seen with Emmitt, and will be seen even more with Larry Allen and some future ones that can't be seen without a crystal ball, lol.

I will say though, alot of players will conflict with your #2 and #3. Alot will have most of their success towards the middle or end of their career, for our sakes, hopefully in a Cowboy uniform. I think too much is put into Cowboy from birth players in the state of the game today.

Roy Williams will get in. Was he anywhere near the player that Deion was at his position. Nope. Not saying Deion should be in, just saying, just cause you wore a star you whole career doesn't make you the most deserving of the honor, espeically when you consider the impact of certain players who were "hired guns".

 

[DallasEast]

True. My only point is that it is more complicated right now than it was in the past. Free agency and the salary cap will have a huge effect on lifetime Cowboy players. The effect was seen with Emmitt, and will be seen even more with Larry Allen and some future ones that can't be seen without a crystal ball, lol.

I will say though, alot of players will conflict with your #2 and #3. Alot will have most of their success towards the middle or end of their career, for our sakes, hopefully in a Cowboy uniform. I think too much is put into Cowboy from birth players in the state of the game today.

Roy Williams will get in. Was he anywhere near the player that Deion was at his position. Nope. Not saying Deion should be in, just saying, just cause you wore a star you whole career doesn't make you the most deserving of the honor, espeically when you consider the impact of certain players who were "hired guns".

I doubt the bold part. If the player is great at the beginning of their careers on another team, for example: a Peyton Manning, a Shaun Alexander, a Ray Lewis, etc., a team will not let that player escape via free agency at that stage of their career. Free agency dollars are being adjusted annually by the ever expanding salary cap. Teams will continue to keep a core of star players on their roster.

If a player hasn't had the opportunity to be great on another team BEFORE coming to the Cowboys, for example Brett Favre (Atlanta-to-Green Bay), then I can see your point, but those players are few and far inbetween. Let's take Owens for example. If he had started his career with San Francisco this year and had similar success in a 49er uniform over the first three or four years, I doubt that San Francisco would've allowed him to leave at age 25 or so via free agency and simply paid the man what he demanded.

No, I just don't see it happening for the truly great players.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I doubt the bold part. If the player is great at the beginning of their careers on another team, for example: a Peyton Manning, a Shaun Alexander, a Ray Lewis, etc., a team will not let that player escape via free agency at that stage of their career. Free agency dollars are being adjusted annually by the ever expanding salary cap. Teams will continue to keep a core of star players on their roster.

If a player hasn't had the opportunity to be great on another team BEFORE coming to the Cowboys, for example Brett Favre (Atlanta-to-Green Bay), then I can see your point, but those players are few and far inbetween. Let's take Owens for example. If he had started his career with San Francisco this year and had similar success in a 49er uniform over the first three or four years, I doubt that San Francisco would've allowed him to leave at age 25 or so via free agency and simply paid the man what he demanded.

No, I just don't see it happening for the truly great players.

Well, we aren't really talking about the truly great cornerstone players of a franchise. We are talking about the marginal ones that are boardline in and boardline out of the ROH. Of course Peyton Manning isn't going anywhere, but what about Reggie Wayne, does he get in if he has the numbers but goes somewhere else?? Oh, and great players do leave, ask Reggie White (if you could), where does he belong (btw, I think he is in with both the Packers and Eagles).

I just do see it happening in the future, more and more than it did in the past. The league is now driven by players more than teams. Players will do what is best for them instead of what's best for the franchise, cause if the situation is reversed, it has been seen many times that the franchise will look out for themselves when all cards on the the table. The players have the right to do the same.

Now some would say if that player is looking out for himself, he shouldn't be part of a team's ROH. But if he made a valuable contribution to that team while there, he is every bit as worthy as some guy whose best accomplishment is he stayed in that uniform.

 

[DallasEast]

Well, we aren't really talking about the truly great cornerstone players of a franchise. We are talking about the marginal ones that are boardline in and boardline out of the ROH. Of course Peyton Manning isn't going anywhere, but what about Reggie Wayne, does he get in if he has the numbers but goes somewhere else?? Oh, and great players do leave, ask Reggie White (if you could), where does he belong.

I just do see it happening in the future, more and more than it did in the past. The league is now driven by players more than teams. Players will do what is best for them instead of what's best for the franchise, cause if the situation is reversed, it has been seen many times that the franchise will look out for themselves when all cards on the the table. The players have the right to do the same.

Now some would say if that player is looking out for himself, he shouldn't be part of a team's ROH. But if he made a valuable contribution to that team while there, he is every bit as worthy as some guy who best accomplishment is he stayed in that uniform.

Borderline players? We're talking about borderline players? I didn't know we were talking about borderline players because 'borderline players' aren't going to EVER get into the Ring of Honor.

There aren't any 'borderline players' in the Ring of Honor. Why would it open up to borderline players in the future? If that's the case, entry into the Ring of Honor will slow to a complete crawl.

Reggie Wayne's entering his seventh season with the Colts. If he were to come to Dallas next season and enjoyed great success over the next ten or fifteen seasons, I would agree with you. If not, I don't believe so.

Reggie White left the Eagles after EIGHT seasons. He spent almost an equal number of season in Green Bay (6). If White had began his career in Dallas as he did with the Eagles and then left for Green Baby, I would probably agree with you. If he came to Dallas after playing for Philadelphia, I would probably disagree with you.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Borderline players? We're talking about borderline players? I didn't know we were talking about borderline players because 'borderline players' aren't going to EVER get into the Ring of Honor.

There aren't any 'borderline players' in the Ring of Honor. Why would it open up to borderline players in the future? If that's the case, entry into the Ring of Honor will slow to a complete crawl.

Reggie Wayne's entering his seventh season with the Colts. If he were to come to Dallas next season and enjoyed great success over the next ten or fifteen seasons, I would agree with you. If not, I don't believe so.

Reggie White left the Eagles after EIGHT seasons. He spent almost an equal number of season in Green Bay (6). If White had began his career in Dallas as he did with the Eagles and then left for Green Baby, I would probably agree with you. If he came to Dallas after playing for Philadelphia, I would probably disagree with you.

In another thread, you talk of Drew Pearson, I would consider him boardline, and the Cowboys do to or else he would be in. Now I know there are other issues between him and Jerrah, but that doesn't change that he is boardline.

As for the Reggie White, if he came to Dallas and got a ring like he did in GB, I see no reason why we wouldnt do it for him. After all, GB did, why wouldn't Dallas. Just cause he started somewhere else doesn't mean he shouldn't get consideration.

And the other Reggie, lol, if Wayne came here and played a similar number of years here with a ring, don't think we should be against him going there either.

I understand what you are saying and I know you are still caught up in how long they are here. What I'm saying is times have changed somewhat, and that shouldn't be the only determinor anymore. While Wayne would be questionable, I totally disagree with you on Reggie White. The quality of the player has something to do with the equation also, and the Packers and Eagles seem to agree with me.

 

[DallasEast]

In another thread, you talk of Drew Pearson, I would consider him boardline, and the Cowboys do to or else he would be in. Now I know there are other issues between him and Jerrah, but that doesn't change that he is boardline.

I'm just speechless.

As for the Reggie White, if he came to Dallas and got a ring like he did in GB, I see no reason why we wouldnt do it for him. After all, GB did, why wouldn't Dallas. Just cause he started somewhere else doesn't mean he shouldn't get consideration.

Are we talking about Green Bay's Ring of Honor (or whatever they call it) or Dallas'? It's doubtful that Dallas will ever get away from the current format--regardless of fan opinion. Still, like I've stated before, if a player has had great success elsewhere, comes to Dallas afterwards and enjoys some level of success, then make room in the Cowboys Ring of Honor for Alworth, Adderley and Ditka. It hasn't happened for a reason, right?

And the other Reggie, lol, if Wayne came here and played a similar number of years here with a ring, don't think we should be against him going there either.

It's funny. Wayne has played 10 more games, enjoyed about 15 more touchdowns in a pass happy offense, only about 750 more receiving yards... than Drew Pearson did in his first six seasons... but Wayne's a surefire Ring of Honor inductee and Pearson's a borderline player.

Who woulda ever thunk it?

I understand what you are saying and I know you are still caught up in how long they are here. What I'm saying is times have changed somewhat, and that shouldn't be the only determinor anymore. While Wayne would be questionable, I totally disagree with you on Reggie White. The quality of the player also has something to do with the equation also, and the Packers and Eagles seem to agree with me.

Cool. That's your equation and it's doubtful that it will be adopted by the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I'm just speechless.

Are we talking about Green Bay's Ring of Honor (or whatever they call it) or Dallas'? It's doubtful that Dallas will ever get away from the current format--regardless of fan opinion. Still, like I've stated before, if a player has had great success elsewhere, comes to Dallas afterwards and enjoys some level of success, then make room in the Cowboys Ring of Honor for Alworth, Adderley and Ditka. It hasn't happened for a reason, right?

It's funny. Wayne has played 10 more games, enjoyed about 15 more touchdowns in a pass happy offense, only about 750 more receiving yards... than Drew Pearson did in his first six seasons... but Wayne's a surefire Ring of Honor inductee and Pearson's a borderline player.

Who woulda ever thunk it?

Cool. That's your equation and it's doubtful that it will be adopted by the Dallas Cowboys.

Don't know why you mention being speechless, he isn't in, that is just a fact. I mentioned Wayne as a name I just threw up against the wall, not saying he should or shouldn't be in, just bringing up a boardline player. I don't think he will make it unless it is as a Colt. Never said he was a surefire ROH inductee, you said that.

As for the Packers, they have there own Hall of Fame and the Eagles have the Honor Roll. Reggie White is in both. It isn't my equation, it is the equation of 2 different NFL franchises. The point is, your equation might not be the same as the Cowboys, and if it is, it should be changed to suit the current conditions of the NFL.

 

[DallasEast]

Don't know why you mention being speechless, he isn't in, that is just a fact. I mentioned Wayne as a name I just threw up against the wall, not saying he should or shouldn't be in, just bringing up a boardline player. I don't think he will make it unless it is as a Colt. Never said he was a surefire ROH inductee, you said that.

As for the Packers, they have there own Hall of Fame and the Eagles are the Honor Roll. Reggie White is in both. It isn't my equation, it is the equation of 2 different NFL franchises. The point is, your equation might not be the same as the Cowboys, and if it is, it should be changed to suit the current conditions of the NFL.

Might not be the same? What makes you think that it's not? It more correlates to how ex-players have been inducted into the Ring of Honor than your own. It is also your opinion that it should be changed which is fine, but I doubt that Jerry Jones feels the same.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Might not be the same? What makes you think that it's not? It more correlates to how ex-players have been inducted into the Ring of Honor than your own. It is also your opinion that it should be changed which is fine, but I doubt that Jerry Jones feels the same.

What I'm saying is you are looking at the past, and I'm looking at the future. In the past, you are correct, in the future, with the salary cap and free agency taking effect more and more in the last 2 decades, the rules should be changed.

Now inducting Allen will go more towards what I'm saying, and it will happen. If Reggie White did come here instead of GB and lead us to a Superbowl while (at the time) having the most recorded sacks in history, I believe that JJ would have to put him in also. Of course, I'm not the guy that will pray at the feet of JJ, he like any other guy can be wrong, what he did to Landry was and still is wrong. Just cause he owns the team doesn't make him the almighty god and always right.

This isn't the 60s and great players won't always stay with the same team. A players contribution to the frachise should be looked at also, not just the percentage of years he spent with a franchise.

 

[DallasEast]

What I'm saying is you are looking at the past, and I'm looking at the future. In the past, you are correct, in the future, with the salary cap and free agency taking effect more and more in the last 2 decades, the rules should be changed.

You can look at the future. It is the owner, Jerry Jones, who must also share your vision for your opinion to come to fruition. It's possible, but doubtful, imo.

Now inducting Allen will go more towards what I'm saying, and it will happen. If Reggie White did come here instead of GB and lead us to a Superbowl while (at the time) having the most recorded sacks in history, I believe that JJ would have to put him in also. Of course, I'm not the guy that will pray at the feet of JJ, he like any other guy can be wrong, what he did to Landry was and still is wrong. Just cause he owns the team doesn't make him the almighty god and always right.

Allen's situation correlates with what has happened in the past. He had a long, successful career with Dallas first before leaving for San Francisco. That is what will land him in the Ring of Honor. And who the hell is praying at the feet of Jerry Jones? Is he or isn't he the owner of the team? I'm only pointing out what he has done in the past. While he might not continue doing what he has ALREADY done, he hasn't demonstrated anything to support your vision. That's just reality.

This isn't the 60s and great players won't always stay with the same team. A players contribution to the frachise should be looked at also, not just the percentage of years he spent with a franchise.

Again. This is your outlook on who will get into the Ring of Honor. Let's face it. The Ring of Honor is probably going to become more and more exclusive as players change teams more frequently. Cowboy legends sit in the Ring of Honor, not hired guns.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

You can look at the future. It is the owner, Jerry Jones, who must also share your vision for your opinion to come to fruition. It's possible, but doubtful, imo.

Allen's situation correlates with what has happened in the past. He had a long, successful career with Dallas first before leaving for San Francisco. That is what will land him in the Ring of Honor. And who the hell is praying at the feet of Jerry Jones? Is he or isn't he the owner of the team? I'm only pointing out what he has done in the past. While he might not continue doing what he has ALREADY done, he hasn't demonstrated anything to support your vision. That's just reality.

Again. This is your outlook on who will get into the Ring of Honor. Let's face it. The Ring of Honor is probably going to become more and more exclusive as players change teams more frequently. Cowboy legends sit in the Ring of Honor, not hired guns.

Yes, it is my opinion, after all this is a message board, lol. Don't care if my opinion agrees with Jerry, I'm just saying the way I think it should be right now.

According to the chart you posted, Larry would have spent the most years out of Dallas than any other member of the ROH, so his situation doesn't exactly correlate to what has happened in the past.

If the rules do remain strict, I agree with you that their will be few new inductees. I guess my problem is I hope we don't put some players in the ROH that don't deserve it because of the absence of good candidates just cause they played for the Cowboys for most of their careers.