T.O. and Tom Brady working out

[Doomsday101]

He was top 10 in Rec TD's per game in 2010, and if he had played all 16 games would have very likely been top 5 for TD's on the season.

Yet in 2012

Here we go, yet again! Former NFL great Terrell Owens, who was considered a shoe-in for the NFL Hall of Fame, has been kicked to the curb by the Indoor Football League‘s (IFL) Allen Wranglers, according to Washington Post.


In a statement that was released by the team’s owner, Jon Frankel, Owens refused to play in two critical road games. He was also reportedly a no-show at a scheduled children’s hospital event. Owens’ reluctance to take part in his obligations resulted in not only his firing but also the loss of his ownership stake in the team.

I'm sure it was someone else fault, it has never been TO fault, just the 9ers, Eagles, Dallas, Balt, and the AFL.

 

[joseephuss]

He was top 10 in Rec TD's per game in 2010, and if he had played all 16 games would have very likely been top 5 for TD's on the season.

But he didn't. You can play the "if" game, but the fact is he got injured. Kenny Britt also got injured that season and missed more games than T.O.. If Britt didn't get injured he would have finished with more TDs. Doesn't work for him, either.

And again, that was back in 2010. Now he is 2 years older, has a severe knee injury on his resume and hasn't played in 2 seasons. That recipe doesn't make players better. If you told me Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson hadn't played since 2010 and had to deal with a major knee injury during that time I would have my doubts of them producing top tier numbers. And those guys are younger than T.O..

 

[muck4doo]

But he didn't. You can play the "if" game, but the fact is he got injured. Kenny Britt also got injured that season and missed more games than T.O.. If Britt didn't get injured he would have finished with more TDs. Doesn't work for him, either.

And again, that was back in 2010. Now he is 2 years older, has a severe knee injury on his resume and hasn't played in 2 seasons. That recipe doesn't make players better. If you told me Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson hadn't played since 2010 and had to deal with a major knee injury during that time I would have my doubts of them producing top tier numbers. And those guys are younger than T.O..

The fact is you are playing the "IF" game as well.

 

[joseephuss]

The fact is you are playing the "IF" game as well.

That is what you got out of my post?

 

[Verdict]

You might be young, and that's okay. Brief run down:

T.O. is a HOF caliber wide receiver who only has Jerry Rice ahead of him in numbers put up. The guy always kept himself in amazing shape, and I have no doubt he can still play. His problem is he always became a locker room cancer. He did that with the whiners, Iggles, and later on with the Cowboys, though he behaved for the most part. To his credit, he didn't cause any problems i know of on the Bills or Bengals. Ochocinco asked for him to be on the Bengals, and when the new coach came in they let both of them go. Many Cowboys fans hate him because he defiled the Star, and Teague defended it. Teague will always be a hero. Some could forgive him when he came to us, some couldn't. His last year he put up almost 1000 yards before he got injured on the Bengals. He is always an entertainer, and one of the most dynamic players of all time. I loved him when he was here. If the Pats can sign him to a non-guaranteed money contract, he will be well worth it. He won't be the all-star he used to be, but he can contribute. I also think his being out of work has humbled him, and he won't be the cancer he used to be.

He cannot beat press coverage anymore.

 

[muck4doo]

That is what you got out of my post?

Yes. "IF" is the whole entire thing here. Why not give the guy a chance IF he can sign for a non-guaranteed contract? IF he can make the team, he should be fine. What other top choices do the Pats have at this point? T.O. is better than them all. The guy deserves that chance. Yes, he may have been a jerk at times, but he was never criminal. He deserves another shot.

 

[muck4doo]

He cannot beat press coverage anymore.

Let him try it, and see if he can or not. Like I said earlier, many of you forget how strong and conditioned this guy is. There is a reason he is only second to Rice in stats. He can still do it. Were some of you not watching him when he was on our team?

 

[Rogah]

Yes. "IF" is the whole entire thing here. Why not give the guy a chance IF he can sign for a non-guaranteed contract?

Because you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you sign him, you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you have him on your team, and you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you cut him.

IF he can make the team, he should be fine. What other top choices do the Pats have at this point? T.O. is better than them all. The guy deserves that chance. Yes, he may have been a jerk at times, but he was never criminal. He deserves another shot.

I'm not making any moral judgements here, just saying that you don't bring a proven locker room cancer to your team.

 

[muck4doo]

Because you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you sign him, you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you have him on your team, and you create a major media spectacle and distraction when you cut him.
I'm not making any moral judgements here, just saying that you don't bring a proven locker room cancer to your team.

I didn't see him doing any cancering on the Bills or Bengals. Yes, he gave us problems at the end, but how many years ago was that? Is it that hard to believe maybe he has grown up? He deserves a shot. Pats should give him a non-guaranteed contract. If he makes the team, great. If he can't, cut him. Sorry, I just can't hate the guy.

 

[DejectedFan1996]

You can clearly see who's been following Owens his entire career including up until he was released by Seattle last year and who only followed him as a Cowboy.

His work ethic rivals Jerry Rice who's known to have the best work ethic in NFL history. T.O. is obviously a shell of his former self but again, based on his preseason games last season, he can clearly still play. T.O.'s problem came with not getting open/seperation, but with dropping every single ball that came his way. Being that he hadn't play in the NFL in nearly two seasons, that is to be expected. If he miraculously was signed to the Pats early prior to training camp, you can bet he'd put up numbers with BRady throwing the ball.

People factor age into this situation a little too much for a guy who has been quoted as having a work ethic that rivals Jerry Rice, who played (and produced for that matter) until he was 42.

T.O. ran a 4.45 40 last season. There were only a few people in last years rookie draft alone that ran a better time. In other words, T.O., at the age of 38/39, ran a better time than the majority of guys 24 years and younger.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I did consider all of those categories. It has been since 2008 that he was elite(top 10) in any single one of those categories. It has been longer since he was elite in multiple categories during the same season.

I don't like him. It isn't about that. It is about him no longer being an elite receiver. He isn't and hasn't been for a while now. I have no reason to expect him to suddenly become elite again at this point in his career.

..and i'll say again, your criteria does/does not make a receiver "elite" or "top tier". Its a completely subjective argument we're having.. which makes it pointless. You don't like him, and you don't acknowledge the numbers he still puts up.

Like I said though, his last year in the league, at 37 years of age, his production (yards gained plus points scored) was top ten in the league. If you look at both those stats combined, only 9 guys in the NFL were better than him. So yea.. you say he's not a top tier guy anymore, I say he was and will be if he comes back, especially with Tom Brady. Agree to disagree.

 

[joseephuss]

..and i'll say again, your criteria does/does not make a receiver "elite" or "top tier". Its a completely subjective argument we're having.. which makes it pointless. You don't like him, and you don't acknowledge the numbers he still puts up.

Like I said though, his last year in the league, at 37 years of age, his production (yards gained plus points scored) was top ten in the league. If you look at both those stats combined, only 9 guys in the NFL were better than him. So yea.. you say he's not a top tier guy anymore, I say he was and will be if he comes back, especially with Tom Brady. Agree to disagree.

How are you using the criteria of yards gained plus points scored? I looked at that combo of 983 yards and 54 points(6 pts for 9 TDs) for a total 1037. That ranked him 16th that year.

I looked at a few fantasy football sites and he was ranked around 12th to 20th. Respectable, but not top 10.

I will say it again, this isn't about me not liking him. It is about where he is at this point in his career. It happens to every player. They can't be top 10 players every single year.

I acknowledge he put up decent numbers his last year in the league, but that is essentially a lifetime ago and those numbers were not good enough to be in the top 10. Two missed years is a lot. I don't and can't discount he has put up 0 receptions, 0 yards and 0 TDs the last two years.


From 2010:
1514 Brandon Lloyd(1448 yds, 11 TDs)
1449 Roddy White(1389 yds, 10 TDs)
1391 Reggie Wayne(1355 yds, 6 TDs)
1337 Greg Jennings(1265 yds, 12 TDs)
1317 Mike Wallace(1257 yds, 10 TDs)
1264 Andre Johnson(1216 yds, 8 TDs)
1252 Dwayne Bowe(1162 yds, 15 TDs)
1192 Calvin Johnson(1192 yds, 12 TDs)
1173 Larry Fitzgerald(1137 yds, 6 TDs)
1151 Santana Moss(1115 yds, 6 TDs)
1133 Steve Johnson(1073 yds, 10 TDs)
1118 Hakeem Nicks(1052 yds, 11 TDs)
1092 DeSean Jackson(1056 yds, 6 TDs)
1083 Miles Austin(1041 yds, 7 TDs)
1065 Marques Colston(1083 yds, 7 TDs)
1037 Terrell Owens(983 yds, 9 TDs)

 

[joseephuss]

Yes. "IF" is the whole entire thing here. Why not give the guy a chance IF he can sign for a non-guaranteed contract? IF he can make the team, he should be fine. What other top choices do the Pats have at this point? T.O. is better than them all. The guy deserves that chance. Yes, he may have been a jerk at times, but he was never criminal. He deserves another shot.

That isn't the "if" game. That is just speculation that we are all taking part in about the future.

I was referring to the comment that "if" T.O. hadn't missed 2 games in 2010 he would have possibly gained more yards and scored more TDs that season and therefore been ranked higher in those categories.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I looked at a few fantasy football sites and he was ranked around 12th to 20th. Respectable, but not top 10.

Again, im not trying to say he's a top 10 wide receiver. That's a benchmark you randomly came up with. Im simply saying that even at age 37, his last year in the league, he was a top wideout who put up great production that was in line with the top wideouts in the league. Im also predicting that if he comes back and plays this season, especially with Tom Brady, he's going to continue to produce in line with the top receivers in the league.

You can say he's getting old all you want, but some guys are just physical freaks.. and Owens is a guy who keeps his body in top physical condition all the time, and a guy who at age 38, ran a faster 40 than 95 percent of players in the league or who were entering the league, still. He's not your average NFL player turning 40. He's a Jerry Rice, an exception to the normal rules.. and if he comes back this year, you'll see that too.

 

[Doomsday101]

I didn't see him doing any cancering on the Bills or Bengals. Yes, he gave us problems at the end, but how many years ago was that? Is it that hard to believe maybe he has grown up? He deserves a shot. Pats should give him a non-guaranteed contract. If he makes the team, great. If he can't, cut him. Sorry, I just can't hate the guy.

2012 he was cut from an AFL team he refused to play in 2 of the road games, that is not growing up. Hey if the Pats want him great that is their business but as far as TO being mature that is non sense, he proves over and over he has not

 

[Rogah]

I didn't see him doing any cancering on the Bills or Bengals. Yes, he gave us problems at the end, but how many years ago was that? Is it that hard to believe maybe he has grown up? He deserves a shot.

He doesn't deserve jack squat and the Patriots owe him absolutely nothing.

Pats should give him a non-guaranteed contract. If he makes the team, great. If he can't, cut him. Sorry, I just can't hate the guy.

I don't hate him either. I'm just saying he is the complete antithesis of what Belichick looks for in a player, not to mention he's about 10 years past his prime. I gave reasons why he isn't even worth kicking the tires.

 

[joseephuss]

Again, im not trying to say he's a top 10 wide receiver. That's a benchmark you randomly came up with. Im simply saying that even at age 37, his last year in the league, he was a top wideout who put up great production that was in line with the top wideouts in the league. Im also predicting that if he comes back and plays this season, especially with Tom Brady, he's going to continue to produce in line with the top receivers in the league.

You can say he's getting old all you want, but some guys are just physical freaks.. and Owens is a guy who keeps his body in top physical condition all the time, and a guy who at age 38, ran a faster 40 than 95 percent of players in the league or who were entering the league, still. He's not your average NFL player turning 40. He's a Jerry Rice, an exception to the normal rules.. and if he comes back this year, you'll see that too.

But you did say only 9 guys produced better than him in 2010. Do you mean to throw out factually incorrect information? Your opinion, I respect even if I disagree with, but false facts are another thing.

I think it is all moot anyway because I don't think the Pats have any intentions of signing him.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

But you did say only 9 guys produced better than him in 2010. Do you mean to throw out factually incorrect information? Your opinion, I respect even if I disagree with, but false facts are another thing.

I think it is all moot anyway because I don't think the Pats have any intentions of signing him.

Probably not, but he still could put up big numbers in this league, imo, if he came back. He's still in shape, he's still got a better size/strength/speed combo at age 40 than most any WR in the league right now, and he'd be playing with Tom Brady.

As for the stats from 2010, I didn't take the time to actually do the math for all the players I mentioned. I just looked at guys with 1000 yards or more and looked at how many TD's they had. A lot of them were at like 5 or 6, so I felt TO, with 1000 yards and 9 TD's was more valuable than a guy with say 150 more yards but only 5 or 6 TD's. Throw in the fact that he put up those numbers in 2 less games than most of the other players in contention and I think it shows he was clearly a top tier WR in 2010. What that means to each individual is certainly up for debate.

 

[zrinkill]

he's still got a better size/strength/speed combo at age 40 than most any WR in the league right now

I do not know if i believe that.

I understand what you are saying ....... but when your speed and quickness starts to go ...... it goes quickly.

I think if he was still the kind of athlete you think he still is ..... then he would have been on a team the last two years.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I do not know if i believe that.

I understand what you are saying ....... but when your speed and quickness starts to go ...... it goes quickly.

I think if he was still the kind of athlete you think he still is ..... then he would have been on a team the last two years.

He ran a 4.5 40 at age 38.. I think that's pretty telling. Plus the fact that we all know what kind of a physical freak he is as far as keeping his body in shape and being a workout fiend.

Do I know if he's slipping or why teams didn't take a chance on him last season? I do not.

But I haven't seen signs that he's slipping as far as his physical performance. Just had hands issues in his tryout with Seattle from what it looked like.