T.O. isn't the only one to blame in Philly

[jman]

Yes, one more TO thread. I apologize in advance to those tiring of this whole mess, but what else is there to talk about during a bye week?

I'm not a TO fan. Not at all.

But to make Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb out to be heroes, and absolve them from this whole mess is quite ridiculous.

This situtation began to get out of control last year before the Super Bowl when McNabb said the Eagles could win without TO. Since that moment Owens has taken every possible opportunity to criticize the QB, and McNabb by his actions, has done nothing but encourage it.

McNabb could have taken the high road, or said the obvious "It'll be tough without TO, but we're still going to play the game." And after it was clear Owens was angered by the comments, justified or not, McNabb could have made a public peace offering, but he chose not to. Leader?

McNabb could also have taken himself completely out of the TO contract saga. "TO is a very valuable member of our offense and my best target. I don't write the checks, but we're a better team with him." But nothing like that came out of McNabb's mouth.

Andy Reid should have put himself right in the middle of this mess as soon as it happened but he let his team get as much out of control as Tice did the Vikings.

TO just did what he always does.

The Eagles organization are the ones that failed.

Now McNabb gets to go back to being the QB that everyone says "Wow, he doesn't even have any targets. How good could this guy be...."

He can get used to it because he'll never have another target like Owens, and it's as much his own fault as anyone's.

I'm so glad I'm not an Eagles fan this weekend.

Like TO, this post is full of it....

And like TO...it was ALL about TO, nobody else but TO, and it appears it will always be about TO.

I applaud the Eagles, their coach, their QB, and their front office for taking a stand and put TO in his place. All I could have ask more than that, is that Huge Douglas would have landed a punch and swollen that fat mouth shut.

 

[Jimz31]

All sides would have been better off to just ignore him and play ball.

T.O. would never allow that. He NEEDS people talking about him.

Just trying to ignore T.O. would make him talk louder.

Sometimes you have to nip it in the bud....they nicked his neck earlier in the season.....they should have severed it back then.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Okay. We just disagree on what leadership is and what makes a great team and keeps one together.

TO's a jerk. You knew that when you signed him. Now what are you going to do about it? Coddle him? Let him get away with whatever he wants?

Either of those are the path to failure. The Eagles chose option B.

Communication, tackling problems head on, responsibility... where were those things here?

It's too easy for me to just say TO's a bad apple and that's the only thing wrong here. Do you realize the financial commitment the Eagles made to this guy, and the mess their cap's going to be in? This was a colossal mistake.

But TO is a bad apple and we need to realize that. It's always easy to point the finger after the fact. Sometimes, it's no one's fault but the individual's. We need to stop looking for scapegoats.

And what makes you think they didn't communicate or tackle problems. You are just assuming they didn't but there is every indication they did. McNabb himself was the bigger man in this issue. He could have yelled back at TO or made similar disparaging comments in the media. Instead he spoke to TO and said he wanted to win.

It's about responsibility not leadership. I'm just not going to point the finger and look for a scapegoat when the issue ultimately came down to TO. He has to be held responsible for his problems.

 

[Jimz31]

It's too easy for me to just say TO's a bad apple and that's the only thing wrong here. Do you realize the financial commitment the Eagles made to this guy, and the mess their cap's going to be in? This was a colossal mistake.

Last that I heard, they structured the contract to avoid getting into a cap mess should he pull any of this stuff.

 

[Hostile]

Has anyone checked TO's website for his take on this?

He's a little too forthcoming on there sometimes. I wonder if he's posted?

 

[playit12]

How about we blame the NFL as a league?

Remember when his agent "forgot" to send the paperwork in? They allowed it in his case but not in another's case.

He got away with screaming at the OC in SF.....

Actually there was quite a bit of belief than an independent arbiter would have ruled in Owens favor. The story is always more complicated than the headlines. In this case, Owens had explicitly in his contract the date to which he could file the paperwork. The NFL changed that date, but as to whether that applied to already formalized contracts, or simply new contracts is a point of law and contention. Personally I don't think that the required steps were taken to actually change the rule in pre-existing contracts, and I think the arbiter would have agreed.

Before some people knee jerk with why he didn't just pick the earlier date... Had Owens signed the paperwork earlier (Before the team used it's franchise tag) they could have used the tag on him and thus prevented him from entering Free Agency. He and his agent instead waited till the last minute to force the 9ers to commit the tag to another player. That was the intent of the date to which they chose in the first place, and they were executing their rights in sticking with it.

Of course TO is evil and stupid and all things he does are wrong, so feel free to ignore this and continue your rant anyway if you so desire. Facts after all, only seem to cloud the issues.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

It that kind of like saying "if your star QB is so sensitive that he took offense to something as basic as saying you would have won with another QB"?

Philly and their fans are going to get the rest of the season that they deserve. The fans had to make TO the spotlight and Reid had to make him an example, and now neither the team or the fans will have their best receiver on the field for the rest of the year.

All sides would have been better off to just ignore him and play ball.

It's been done before. Marv Levy said the Bills could win without Jim Kelly at the helm. I didn't see Jim Kelly throw a fit and start a feud with Marv Levy and the Bills. That's ONE example. This happens every year. Some team is usually left without their star player and the team simply states they can without that player; that in no way is critical of the starting player and most players understand this. TO is such a narcisist that he made it about himself instead of understanding the bigger picture.

The national media has made TO the spotlight and they are continuing to do so. The fans in Philly had little to do with that. They took McNabb's side. The fans in Philly were very much against TO.

The truth is this would have happened to any team. TO is just spoiled child. He behaves when all is well but when the $hit hits the fan, look out. That would have happed with us or any other team in the NFL. TO is just TO. I'm not going to blame any organization for his behavior. He acted this way with the 49ers, the Eagles and he will do so with his next team too.

 

[Cbz40]

How about we blame the NFL as a league?

Remember when his agent "forgot" to send the paperwork in? They allowed it in his case but not in another's case.

He got away with screaming at the OC in SF.....

You keep letting a guy get away with stuff, they will think they deserve to get away with everything.

The NFL suits never should have waived the requirement that ultimately landed him with the Eagles.

I have MORE respect for the Eagles as an organization....(No, I can't believe that I just said that). But this is something that SHOULD have been done earlier. At least they finally pulled the trigger.

Excellent answer........

 

[playit12]

One thing that has always bothered me are how little these fines are. What's 200K to TO? I don't understand why the NFL, NBA etc. don't level fines in the million dollar range. Seriously, these fines are nothing more than a shot to someone's pride as opposed to his wallet. What's a 30K fine when you are making millions.

He isn't being fined 200k. He simply isn't being paid his normal base salary for the games he is suspended. There is no fine, as TO did not break any NFL rules. He can now appeal the decision to suspend him for the 4 games, and the team must prove that he violated the rules or must then pay him back the 800k that he would have earned.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

He isn't being fined 200k. He simply isn't being paid his normal base salary for the games he is suspended. There is no fine, as TO did not break any NFL rules. He can now appeal the decision to suspend him for the 4 games, and the team must prove that he violated the rules or must then pay him back the 800k that he would have earned.

I know he isn't being fined 200K but he is only losing 200K per game and after his 4 games, he will lose a little less than a million dollars but what is that to a mutlimillionaire like TO. It's chump change. If you want to hit him where it counts, the league needs to fine him or have some practice in which a dent is truly being put in his wallet.

 

[playit12]

The national media has made TO the spotlight and they are continuing to do so. The fans in Philly had little to do with that. They took McNabb's side. The fans in Philly were very much against TO.

The truth is this would have happened to any team. TO is just spoiled child. He behaves when all is well but when the $hit hits the fan, look out. That would have happed with us or any other team in the NFL. TO is just TO. I'm not going to blame any organization for his behavior. He acted this way with the 49ers, the Eagles and he will do so with his next team too.

I doubt Reid is ever pressured into personel decisions by the national audience. The philly administration takes it's cues from the Philly area fans in order to ensure their continued support. Otherwise I'm sure all of DC would be clamoring for Parcells to suspend that Bledsoe charecter for something.

Either way, he hasn't done anything that would force the NFL to suspend him. The choice to do so was entirely the decision of Reid. Had the fans, teamates, and McNabb not cared one way or the other, He'd probably still be playing and whinning.

 

[playit12]

I know he isn't being fined 200K but he is only losing 200K per game and after his 4 games, he will lose a little less than a million dollars but what is that to a mutlimillionaire like TO. It's chump change. If you want to hit him where it counts, the league needs to fine him or have some practice in which a dent is truly being put in his wallet.

The league isn't fining him because he has not broken any rules. I seriously doubt the league officials care one way or the other that he likes Farve better than McNabb. This is an internal squable.

 

[Jimz31]

Actually there was quite a bit of belief than an independent arbiter would have ruled in Owens favor. The story is always more complicated than the headlines. In this case, Owens had explicitly in his contract the date to which he could file the paperwork. The NFL changed that date, but as to whether that applied to already formalized contracts, or simply new contracts is a point of law and contention. Personally I don't think that the required steps were taken to actually change the rule in pre-existing contracts, and I think the arbiter would have agreed.

Before some people knee jerk with why he didn't just pick the earlier date... Had Owens signed the paperwork earlier (Before the team used it's franchise tag) they could have used the tag on him and thus prevented him from entering Free Agency. He and his agent instead waited till the last minute to force the 9ers to commit the tag to another player. That was the intent of the date to which they chose in the first place, and they were executing their rights in sticking with it.

Of course TO is evil and stupid and all things he does are wrong, so feel free to ignore this and continue your rant anyway if you so desire. Facts after all, only seem to cloud the issues.

We'll see about that now won't we.

The Eagles are trying to get $1.2 million in signing bonus back. The same person that will hear the grievance will also decide on the signing bonus as well.

Do you honestly think that the Eagles would do this WITHOUT plenty of evidence that he broke the clause in his contract that dealt with this?

It's an open & shut case for the Eagles.

 

[playit12]

We'll see about that now won't we.

The Eagles are trying to get $1.2 million in signing bonus back. The same person that will hear the grievance will also decide on the signing bonus as well.

Do you honestly think that the Eagles would do this WITHOUT plenty of evidence that he broke the clause in his contract that dealt with this?

It's an open & shut case for the Eagles.

It's an independent case. I'm sure if the arbiter isn't a complete hack, how he would have ruled on the earlier action is completely seperate to how he will rule now.

Either way, it's not hard to get some of the SB money back. All they have to do is say his conduct was detrimental. The same could be said for Key when he argues with Bledsoe on the sidelines.

 

[playit12]

Also if they do get the bonus back they have to release him from his current contract.

So there is relief for both parties.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I doubt Reid is ever pressured into personel decisions by the national audience. The philly administration takes it's cues from the Philly area fans in order to ensure their continued support. Otherwise I'm sure all of DC would be clamoring for Parcells to suspend that Bledsoe charecter for something.

Really, is that why they selected McNabb despite the city of Philly's open declaration to do whatever it takes to move up and draft Ricky Williams? Is that why the fans booed McNabb on draft day. Reid nor the organization aren't under pressure from Philly fans. If they were, they wouldn't have released fan favorites like Troy Vincent, and Bobby Taylor. They wouldn't have allowed Hugh Douglas and Jeremiah Trotter to initially leave .

Either way, he hasn't done anything that would force the NFL to suspend him. The choice to do so was entirely the decision of Reid. Had the fans, teamates, and McNabb not cared one way or the other, He'd probably still be playing and whinning.

You are 2/3 right. If the fans and McNabb didn't care, they would keep him but that's like saying a boy would continue to piss on a wasps' nest if the wasps didn't attack him.

 

[Jimz31]

It's an independent case. I'm sure if the arbiter isn't a complete hack, how he would have ruled on the earlier action is completely seperate to how he will rule now.

Either way, it's not hard to get some of the SB money back. All they have to do is say his conduct was detrimental. The same could be said for Key when he argues with Bledsoe on the sidelines.

I would HARDLY consider KJ's arguing with DB detrimentla for the team.

They aren't coming down on TO for arguing with McNabb. Are you thinking that is what this is about?

Name ONE time that KJ blasted the Cowboy organization.

Arguements happen ALL THE TIME between QB's and WR's.

TO has been talking bad about the organization for quite a while. Totally different.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

We'll see about that now won't we.

The Eagles are trying to get $1.2 million in signing bonus back. The same person that will hear the grievance will also decide on the signing bonus as well.

Do you honestly think that the Eagles would do this WITHOUT plenty of evidence that he broke the clause in his contract that dealt with this?

It's an open & shut case for the Eagles.

agreed

 

[Jimz31]

Really, is that why they selected McNabb despite the city of Philly's open declaration to do whatever it takes to move up and draft Ricky Williams? Is that why the fans booed McNabb on draft day. Reid nor the organization aren't under pressure from Philly fans. If they were, they wouldn't have released fan favorites like Troy Vincent, and Bobby Taylor. They wouldn't have allowed Hugh Douglas and Jeremiah Trotter to initially leave .



You are 2/3 right. If the fans and McNabb didn't care, they would keep him but that's like saying a boy would continue to piss on a wasps' nest if the wasps didn't attack him.

Exactly.....to say that the Eagles organization takes their cues from the fans is ludicrous.

The Philly fans have been yelling at the organization to get better with all of the Cap-room that they have had for the past 5 years.

Every year, it's the same thing....the fans saying "Why don't you spend X amount of money to bring in <insert player name here>."

Philly fans telling the Eagles org. what to do? Come on.

 

[Trip]

It's been done before. Marv Levy said the Bills could win without Jim Kelly at the helm. I didn't see Jim Kelly throw a fit and start a feud with Marv Levy and the Bills. That's ONE example. This happens every year. Some team is usually left without their star player and the team simply states they can without that player; that in no way is critical of the starting player and most players understand this. TO is such a narcisist that he made it about himself instead of understanding the bigger picture.

The national media has made TO the spotlight and they are continuing to do so. The fans in Philly had little to do with that. They took McNabb's side. The fans in Philly were very much against TO.

The truth is this would have happened to any team. TO is just spoiled child. He behaves when all is well but when the $hit hits the fan, look out. That would have happed with us or any other team in the NFL. TO is just TO. I'm not going to blame any organization for his behavior. He acted this way with the 49ers, the Eagles and he will do so with his next team too.

It wouldn't have happened with any team. The NFL is full of spoiled children. They need to be taught, disciplined and not allowed to run amuck.... It's not like he had crack party with hookers and got busted by the cops.