Talib admits he smoked pot and Manningham drops

[iceberg]

Tilting at windmills again, ice?

Please go back through this thread and point out where I 1) addressed you, 2) made anything personal against anybody here, or 3) criticized "anyone" who smokes pot.

My issue is with these athletes who smoke when they clearly know they aren't supposed to. Much more talk than that about the general evils or non-evils of pot use are IMO more for the political folder, which is a quagmire I have no interest in entering.

windmills are cool! there's a bunch of 'em in western oklahoma now off I40 that just look bad to the bone!

where did i say you addressed me in that last post? the one before i said i had no idea if you were talking to me. the other i just found interesting and replied.

you said you don't know why people take it personally when you critisize carter - how do you know it's personal? i used the same word you did by mistake i suppose.

 

[lspain1]

i think highly self-descrtructive people will in the end, be highly self-desctructive. if you take away weed, they'll go get alochol. is that better? we both know better. are we so worried about the minority we punish the majority that has no problem with it?

9 people can handle it fine, 1 can't. so instead of worrying about the 1, we say all 10 can't or shouldn't.

like i said - i knew one man who was high 24x7 and held a very professional job and made 6 figures easy. took very good care of his family.

and i've known those who get high and whine their job at wal mart blows chunk monkies but they do nothing to improve themselves. yes weed doesn't help you there, not at all. if you're a lazy bum you'll be a lazy stoned bum.

i think people look to drugs as the cause of personal issues and i see they compound them, but the cause is their own behavior and inability to deal with it.

but good response and i respect where you're coming from on that. thank you.

I think this subject matter is tough in a free society because, in this area, we criminalize behavior that isn't necessarily destructive (a debatable point in itself). We could go on for a long time about what it means when we criminalize, as opposed to regulate, behavior. There are a lot of emotional overtones, so it becomes easy to get offended when someone's opinion differs in this area. That being said, this is an off topic discussion, so I won't get in the way of those who are busy either trashing another poster or being offended.

 

[iceberg]

I think this subject matter is tough in a free society because, in this area, we criminalize behavior that isn't necessarily destructive (a debatable point in itself). We could go on for a long time about what it means when we criminalize, as opposed to regulate, behavior. There are a lot of emotional overtones, so it becomes easy to get offended when someone's opinion differs in this area. That being said, this is an off topic discussion, so I won't get in the way of those who are busy either trashing another poster or being offended.

yea, i'm out too. just not an emotional issue for me but people seem tor read a lot of emotion into it.

if you like it, smoke it. if you don't, don't. but if you want to make millions and the rules say "don't", then don't. to do otherwise is just ricky williams stupid.

 

[TNCowboy]

Regardless of anyone's personal opinions, it's:

1) illegal; and
2) tested for by the NFL.

Talib knew he could be tested in college, and that he would be by the NFL. The fact he did it anyway points to a huge problem with the kid's judgment. No way I'd touch him with an early round pick.

 

[Hostile]

Here's an idea: substitute the word "alcohol" for "pot". Similar physiological and lifestyle consequences to one's person, but one's legal and one isn't. Love the hypocrisy....

I don't drink either.

 

[Hostile]

as far as i know no one ever said it was supposed to solve anything.

Really?

http://home.gci.net/~t.johnson/images/smoke1.jpg

and

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2029025&postcount=114

Maybe I'm blind, but I see the word "solved."

 

[Kilyin]

in jersey im pretty sure thats a felony getting caught with 2 oz and you would have the intent to distrupt and you would have possesion in a school each state has different laws remember that.

So you are in college, meaning for all intents and purposes you are currently at least partially college educated. Are you a foreign exchange student?

 

[iceberg]

Really?

http://home.gci.net/~t.johnson/images/smoke1.jpg

and

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2029025&postcount=114

Maybe I'm blind, but I see the word "solved."

sorry, i didn't take him seriously - more joking around. now if he really thought that would "solve" something then yea, oops. my bad and overstep.

 

[Kilyin]

It's not often a thread is relevant enough to post this pic.

 

[Hostile]

sorry, i didn't take him seriously - more joking around. now if he really thought that would "solve" something then yea, oops. my bad and overstep.

No sweat, but his two posts were exactly what I was responding to.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd still take him

the fact that he was upfront and honest means he's put it behind him

didn't Calvin Johnson admit to drug use too?

 

[jobberone]

Here's an idea: substitute the word "alcohol" for "pot". Similar physiological and lifestyle consequences to one's person, but one's legal and one isn't. Love the hypocrisy....

While I understand why you think it is hypocritical that is not the issue. The issue is do you want an impaired player on your team. No athlete is so good he can afford to play impaired. Some do but they and their team pays a price.

You can substitute any illegal drug where you use pot. We're not talking about the legality or morality of the issue. Do you want an impaired athlete on the field and do you want to waste a draft pick on someone who will lose time if they have a positive drug test. And anyone who has had multiple positive tests is obviously addicted to their drug(s) of choice and is at high risk to do it again.

There are differences between Pacman and this. Pacman would have a contract that protects both the club and the NFL if he messes up. A new draftee gets more than one chance but these guys who use pot more than recreationally are at high risk to repeat it. And this guy is addicted. Also he would cost a much higher draft risk than Pacman will.

You can't risk draft picks on players at much higher risk than the rest of the guys.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'd still take him

the fact that he was upfront and honest means he's put it behind him

didn't Calvin Johnson admit to drug use too?

Yes, he did. As Mark Stepnoski pointed out, it's far safer than taking pain killers and arguably less addictive, yet it relieves some types of pain (i.e. cystic fibrosis, cancer, etc) better than some pain killing treatments.

I can't blame teams for frowning upon marijuana use because it is a violation of league rules, but I also can't blame football players for using it.






YAKUZA

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes, he did. As Mark Stepnoski pointed out, it's far safer than taking pain killers and arguably less addictive, yet it relieves some types of pain (i.e. cystic fibrosis, cancer, etc) better than some pain killing treatments.

I can't blame teams for frowning upon marijuana use because it is a violation of league rules, but I also can't blame football players for using it.






YAKUZA

hmm, I didn't think about it that way, but it makes an interesting point

and I agree, can't blame both sides

 

[juck]

It's not often a thread is relevant enough to post this pic.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Deep apathy, psychomotor retardation (look it up), short term memory loss as well as long term impairment of short and long term memory, depression, yada yada are the problems associated with pot. It is not the type of drug you want a professional athlete on.

Thats fair and you can also include anxiety onto that list but on the other hand what kind of side effects are associated with diazepam, opoids and skeletal muscle relaxants given to athletes regularly or for alcohol for that matter?

 

[Dodger]

All I have to say is that this little revelation kinda pisses me off. Talib was one of the corners that I was hoping the Cowboys were interested in. I mean, I really like his size and instincts, his ability to make plays, his tendancy to play aggressively, and that he's confident in his abilities. Not that his game doesn't have some holes.....even so, I think the Cowboys could've used a guy like him.

But after this...and after seeing how the Cowboys organization deals with players who smoke pot...I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Cowboys are one of the teams that have taken him off the board.

What a waste...

 

[Primetime0201]

How does this news effect the draft?



The Way We Hear It — draft edition
Character concerns drop Talib, Manningham from multiple draft boards

By Nolan Nawrocki
April 8, 2008




Two potential first-round, early-entry juniors — Kansas CB Aqib Talib and Michigan WR Mario Manningham — have been removed from the draft boards of multiple NFL teams because of character concerns.



Specifically, Talib admitted at the Combine to testing positive for marijuana three times while at the University of Kansas, according to several league sources. While teams appreciated Talib’s honesty, it bothered one team that Talib dismissed the first positive test because he said he had told Kansas head coach Mark Mangino that he was going to test positive.
Manningham, unlike Talib, denied testing positive at any time throughout college when the question was posed at the Combine about his past marijuana use. He also worked out poorly at the Combine after having waited to sign an agent and showing up unprepared to the annual event.
After hiring an agent, however, Manningham showed up in better physical condition at his pro day and ran considerably faster. He also distributed a letter to NFL team officials admitting that he "wasn't straightforward" during team interviews at the Combine, had failed two drug tests while at the University of Michigan and apologized for any confusion he caused as a result of being “nervous and scared.”
“I don’t use marijuana anymore — and I have passed tests since,” Manningham wrote in the letter. “I know what is at stake for me, and my career. I am learning what it is going to take to be a professional. I am writing this letter because I just want a fair evaluation, and I want to be accountable for my actions. I am willing to be re-interviewed, re-tested, and to undergo any evaluation any team wants me to undergo.”
The way we hear it, Manningham, despite handling the situation poorly at the Combine with little guidance, is viewed as less of a character risk than Talib, who has been removed from more draft boards than Manningham, based on conversations PFW has had with nine NFL teams.
“There is no way I’d touch (Talib),” one team told PFW. “He’s gotten into a lot of trouble, and he still does not get it.”
“He’s got a laundry list of issues,” another team executive said of Talib's off-the-field behavior. “He’s not a one-time offender. Give a guy like him money, and it never gets better. It only gets worse.”
Talib was suspended for two games in 2006 for disciplinary reasons and has numerous non-drug-related issues that concern teams, although he has told teams that he has changed his ways since his daughter was born on June 22, 2007.
Manningham has drawn more sympathy than Talib from teams who have interviewed the pair.
“(Manningham) does not have a strong support network; he just had his grandfather. He needs a lot of guidance," a club official told PFW. "He is embarrassed by his past. He’s really reserved and quiet. Lloyd Carr vouches for him, and they have not always seen eye to eye.”
Manningham was also suspended for the Eastern Michigan game last season "due to Coach Carr's determination that I was lacking in focus," Manningham wrote in his letter.
Both players could still wind up being drafted in the first round, because they possess great football playing instincts and elite athletic ability. However, they could easily slide a round because too many teams have removed them from draft consideration.

 

[5mics]

The Way We Hear It — draft edition
Character concerns drop Talib, Manningham from multiple draft boards

By Nolan Nawrocki
April 8, 2008

Kansas CB Aqib Talib (left) and​

Michigan WR Mario Manningham​

Specifically, Talib admitted at the Combine to testing positive for marijuana three times while at the University of Kansas, according to several league sources. While teams appreciated Talib’s honesty, it bothered one team that Talib dismissed the first positive test because he said he had told Kansas head coach Mark Mangino that he was going to test positive.
Manningham, unlike Talib, denied testing positive at any time throughout college when the question was posed at the Combine about his past marijuana use. He also worked out poorly at the Combine after having waited to sign an agent and showing up unprepared to the annual event.
After hiring an agent, however, Manningham showed up in better physical condition at his pro day and ran considerably faster. He also distributed a letter to NFL team officials admitting that he "wasn't straightforward" during team interviews at the Combine, had failed two drug tests while at the University of Michigan and apologized for any confusion he caused as a result of being “nervous and scared.”
“I don’t use marijuana anymore — and I have passed tests since,” Manningham wrote in the letter. “I know what is at stake for me, and my career. I am learning what it is going to take to be a professional. I am writing this letter because I just want a fair evaluation, and I want to be accountable for my actions. I am willing to be re-interviewed, re-tested, and to undergo any evaluation any team wants me to undergo.”
The way we hear it, Manningham, despite handling the situation poorly at the Combine with little guidance, is viewed as less of a character risk than Talib, who has been removed from more draft boards than Manningham, based on conversations PFW has had with nine NFL teams.
“There is no way I’d touch (Talib),” one team told PFW. “He’s gotten into a lot of trouble, and he still does not get it.”
“He’s got a laundry list of issues,” another team executive said of Talib's off-the-field behavior. “He’s not a one-time offender. Give a guy like him money, and it never gets better. It only gets worse.”
Talib was suspended for two games in 2006 for disciplinary reasons and has numerous non-drug-related issues that concern teams, although he has told teams that he has changed his ways since his daughter was born on June 22, 2007.
Manningham has drawn more sympathy than Talib from teams who have interviewed the pair.
“(Manningham) does not have a strong support network; he just had his grandfather. He needs a lot of guidance," a club official told PFW. "He is embarrassed by his past. He’s really reserved and quiet. Lloyd Carr vouches for him, and they have not always seen eye to eye.”
Manningham was also suspended for the Eastern Michigan game last season "due to Coach Carr's determination that I was lacking in focus," Manningham wrote in his letter.
Both players could still wind up being drafted in the first round, because they possess great football playing instincts and elite athletic ability. However, they could easily slide a round because too many teams have removed them from draft consideration.

Ok, we can pick-up Talib w/ our 2nd rounder now.....

 

[dallasfaniac]

This thread has quickly gone from discussing the risks regarding drafting a player that has been caught on multiple occasions having committed illegal activities, to trying to justify such behavior by comparing the effects to other legal substances.

I don't even know how that could be brought into this discussion. How does the effects on the body by alchohol, prescription medication etc. have anything to do with illegal activity?

It's one thing to discuss whether a player should be drafted because they have been busted 3 times for drinking and driving and another to try to justify someone's repeated illegal behavior which can get them booted out of the league by saying 'Well, alchohol is more addictive and impairs your judgement.' I'm sorry, these guys have no judegement to impair if they can be busted on multiple occasions knowing it could cost them a career. What's to prevent them from continuing once they already have that huge signing bonus in pocket with plenty of friends ready to move in?