Tank... am I the only one appalled at the double-standard?

[theogt]

This is what I was going to say. "Cleaning up the team"... if that's indeed what Jerr said... isn't only done by signing guys with questionable character issues. IMO taking those guys and teaching them to be responsible and stand up human beings would be included in "cleaning up the Cowboys."

In the past few years we have taken on guys with questionable characters, and few of them have been in trouble with the law. Keith Davis is about the only person who has been suspected of something in the past few years --- unless you count Terry Glenn pissing on a dumpster.

It doesn't really matter how you explain it.

If bbgun thinks he's found a way to criticize the team, Jerry, or a player, he'll beat it to death, regardless of whether he's proven wrong or made to look silly doing so.

 

[Established1971]

I just read through this entire thread this morning, which I seldom do, especially one this long.

But this one was so good I couldn't stop.

We all think we are so important, and that our opinion actually matters.

thats ridiculous, most people dont think they are important, you cant generalize like that. Its just people expressing opinions, hence the actual reason for the existence of the very board on which you post.

 

[zrinkill]

If bbgun thinks he's found a way to criticize the team, Jerry, or a player, he'll beat it to death, regardless of whether he's proven wrong or made to look silly doing so.

A truer statement has never been said on this forum.

 

[WV Cowboy]

thats ridiculous, most people dont think they are important, you cant generalize like that. Its just people expressing opinions, hence the actual reason for the existence of the very board on which you post.

If you haven't noticed that many posters on this board think they are important, and that their opinion actually matters, then you haven't been paying attention.

Especially in this thread.

 

[zeromaster]

I'm appalled that although we Dallas fans think our team is the premier franchise and class of the NFL, we fail to show that same class on this and other Cowboy message boards with frightening regularity.

 

[peplaw06]

I'm appalled that although we Dallas fans think our team is the premier franchise and class of the NFL, we fail to show that same class on this and other Cowboy message boards with frightening regularity.

 

[aikemirv]

We sign Terrell Owens... this board is in meltdown mode.

Half the fan-base is vehemently against the move, half are for it. Sure, he hasn't committed any actual "crimes"... but he has a big ego and an even bigger mouth. That makes him worse than guys like Ahman Green, who beat his wife. Makes him worse than Jamal Lewis, who was involved in dope slangin'. Makes him worse than Ray Lewis, Mr. Double Murder.

If we brought in any of the above men, it would not be objected by the fan-base with 1/1000th the furor that the T.O. signing was objected to.

We have fans claiming that they are turning in their Cowboys Fan cards. We have fans who say they won't cheer for us until "Team Obliterater" is off the team.

"We have gone too far", they say.

Even if we win, it will be an empty win since it took bringing in a human being of HIS caliber.

Jerry is selling his soul to the DEVIL!


Fast-forward 18 months... it appears that a Mr. Terry "Tank" Johnson is on the way.

This man hasn't called his ex-teammate gay... but he did verbally threaten a cop and needed to be maced in order to be subdued and arrested.

He never danced with pom-poms or pulled out a Sharpie to sign a football... but he did violate his probation by having 6 guns in his house, 2 of which were assault rifles. Some of the guns were loaded, and yes... there were children present in the house.

What's the fan-base's reaction? The same people strongly opposed to the T.O. signing?

"Hell yeah, bring him in! We lost Ferguson for the year, and this guy will help us win! Woohoo Tank!!!"


Let me add that I was strongly in favor of the T.O. signing. I knew there was a chance he could be a problem, but the potential reward outweighed the risks for me. Besides, we were not a Super Bowl contender with Keyshawn and Terry Glenn... perhaps T.O. could help elevate us to that level.

And I am also in favor of the Tank signing. I don't think the "risk" factor will be very high, and it makes very little difference to me if our players are choir boys off the field or not. Michael Irvin was anything but that... and he's one of my all-time favorite athletes.

It's just annoying to me that so many people who got their panties in a bunch over the T.O. signing seem to be in favor of bringing in a REAL thug, a REAL criminal, a REAL detriment to society.

Although a few have explained the difference to you in this thread, you have continued to ignore the response. The issue against TO was not a moral one but the fact that so far in his career he had been the antithesis of "team" . A loud mouth, show off attention *****. We have seen very little of that here and I am glad for that but I still would have rather given a third for Javon Walker rather than have gotten TO.

As far as Tank goes, if all the players on your favorite team had to have the same morals as the individual fan I guess there would not be near as many fans these days. How many NFL players do you think have gang related activity in their background - I would think it is quite a few when you consider where a lot of thsese guys have been through growing up.

 

[Hostile]

This thread gave me gas.

On a serious note.

I get BBgun's general point of view, just think he did a poor job conveying it.

Why is it the threads I am having the most fun in always give you gas?



Look, I understand what bbgun is trying to say as well, and let's be honest here, every single one of us who was a fan from the Landry days felt a shift in this franchise when Landry was gone. Some of us do miss that, and some of us moved on when the franchise started winning.

I think it's naive however to think that there weren't problems during the Landry years as well. Harvey Martin had drug problems. Bob Hayes did too. There were always rumors about Tony Dorsett, though nothing concrete ever surfaced. Tony himself once said he was shocked when there were rumors of scandals that did not involve him.

Read North Dallas Forty.

Yes, guys like Hollywood Henderson, Rafael Septien, and Lance Rentzel were waived after incidents that embarrassed the team. Yes, Duane Thomas and Clint Longley were traded after they became too impossible to handle.

I don't see where that has changed in the Jerry years. Antonio Bryant, traded. Dwayne Goodrich, waived. That's just 2 examples. There are dozens more.

Parcells was cleaning everything up? Then explain Marcus Coleman, Leonardo Carson, Jermaine Brooks, Abram Elam, and I'm sure others we may not know about.

There was stuff in between Landry and Parcells as well. Nicky Salua, Michael Irvin, Mark Tuinei, Larry Allen, Erik Williams, just to name a few. At one time or another every NFL franchise is going to have negative image problems. Anyone who denies this has their head in the sand and their fingers in their ears. You cannot name me one pristine, perfect NFL franchise. It cannot be done.

I do not understand the chest thumping "i'm better than you because I want a perfect world for the Dallas Cowboys" mentality. I never have. I never will. It doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else because I don't want Tank Johnson. It doesn't make me a worse fan either. That stuff is just elementary school silly.

Terrell Owens was hated long before he came here. Why? Because of the star incident and all the prima donna ways he tore his teams apart. Many of us did not want that. I was among them.

I will openly admit that TO has been good for this team. That doesn't mean I like him. It also doesn't mean I hate him. I never have denied his talent, I just don't like the drama queen crap.

So now we come to Tank Johnson. I didn't want Tank Johnson. It is a combination of 2 things. The off field stuff and the fact he has never been a NT in a 3-4. He's a 2 technique DT like La'Roi Glover, whom I still wish we had kept.

So let's talk about the off the field stuff first. He paid his debt to society. He's paying his debt to the NFL. From that point of recognition forward I can understand him getting a chance. I'm surprised it is a chance here. Not because of the off the field stuff. Strictly because I don't see the fit. Maybe I will be wrong. I'm not making a huge deal out of this for one reason, and one reason only, and it is the exact same reason why I didn't make a big deal out of TO once he was signed. There's enough of it going on without me joining the fray.

When we signed TO, I defended the people who were excited about it. In a sense I am now defending those who like the Tank signing. We're all Cowboys fans, and to me that is a brotherhood. When I see fellow Cowboys fans being labeled as lesser fans over something this trivial I will speak up. Even if that means supporting a stance I personally do not agree with.

Overall it was a great discussion and Nav22 should be very proud of the thought generated. I started out by joking with him a bit about craving more outrage. I for one appreciate lively threads as long as people can look past differing opinions and not hate their fellow Cowboys fans. We've got Eagles, Giants, and Commanders fans to hate. Focus energies in the right direction.

 

[dogunwo]

We sign Terrell Owens... this board is in meltdown mode.

We have fans who say they won't cheer for us until "Team Obliterater" is off the team.

"

Don't ever use a Skip Bayless line on this board again. He is not welcome here.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why is it the threads I am having the most fun in always give you gas?



Look, I understand what bbgun is trying to say as well, and let's be honest here, every single one of us who was a fan from the Landry days felt a shift in this franchise when Landry was gone. Some of us do miss that, and some of us moved on when the franchise started winning.

I think it's naive however to think that there weren't problems during the Landry years as well. Harvey Martin had drug problems. Bob Hayes did too. There were always rumors about Tony Dorsett, though nothing concrete ever surfaced. Tony himself once said he was shocked when there were rumors of scandals that did not involve him.

Read North Dallas Forty.

Yes, guys like Hollywood Henderson, Rafael Septien, and Lance Rentzel were waived after incidents that embarrassed the team. Yes, Duane Thomas and Clint Longley were traded after they became too impossible to handle.

I don't see where that has changed in the Jerry years. Antonio Bryant, traded. Dwayne Goodrich, waived. That's just 2 examples. There are dozens more.

Parcells was cleaning everything up? Then explain Marcus Coleman, Leonardo Carson, Jermaine Brooks, Abram Elam, and I'm sure others we may not know about.

There was stuff in between Landry and Parcells as well. Nicky Salua, Michael Irvin, Mark Tuinei, Larry Allen, Erik Williams, just to name a few. At one time or another every NFL franchise is going to have negative image problems. Anyone who denies this has their head in the sand and their fingers in their ears. You cannot name me one pristine, perfect NFL franchise. It cannot be done.

I do not understand the chest thumping "i'm better than you because I want a perfect world for the Dallas Cowboys" mentality. I never have. I never will. It doesn't make me a better fan than anyone else because I don't want Tank Johnson. It doesn't make me a worse fan either. That stuff is just elementary school silly.

Terrell Owens was hated long before he came here. Why? Because of the star incident and all the prima donna ways he tore his teams apart. Many of us did not want that. I was among them.

I will openly admit that TO has been good for this team. That doesn't mean I like him. It also doesn't mean I hate him. I never have denied his talent, I just don't like the drama queen crap.

So now we come to Tank Johnson. I didn't want Tank Johnson. It is a combination of 2 things. The off field stuff and the fact he has never been a NT in a 3-4. He's a 2 technique DT like La'Roi Glover, whom I still wish we had kept.

So let's talk about the off the field stuff first. He paid his debt to society. He's paying his debt to the NFL. From that point of recognition forward I can understand him getting a chance. I'm surprised it is a chance here. Not because of the off the field stuff. Strictly because I don't see the fit. Maybe I will be wrong. I'm not making a huge deal out of this for one reason, and one reason only, and it is the exact same reason why I didn't make a big deal out of TO once he was signed. There's enough of it going on without me joining the fray.

When we signed TO, I defended the people who were excited about it. In a sense I am now defending those who like the Tank signing. We're all Cowboys fans, and to me that is a brotherhood. When I see fellow Cowboys fans being labeled as lesser fans over something this trivial I will speak up. Even if that means supporting a stance I personally do not agree with.

Overall it was a great discussion and Nav22 should be very proud of the thought generated. I started out by joking with him a bit about craving more outrage. I for one appreciate lively threads as long as people can look past differing opinions and not hate their fellow Cowboys fans. We've got Eagles, Giants, and Commanders fans to hate. Focus energies in the right direction.

When I already have gas, what makes you think I need more from an old mean windbag? :

To me it boils down to BBgun's delivery and people ready to jump on him for his always negative stance on these topics. I would not mind it too much if BBGun would occasionally give a little credit where it is due but that is not his style I guess. For the most part I am close to his blaming of Jerry Jones and have been for some time. I am just not as negative about it as he is and I am also more willing to talk about the positives.

Plus this is just one of those argument/debate threads that I just could not get into at this time. Some catch my interest and draw me in, this one just seemed like it just turned into another peeing for urinal cakes type of contest where people exaggerate other people's stances and put words in their mouths in doing so. People should not be putting anything into other people's mouths when in the middle of a peeing contest.:

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When I already have gas, what makes you think I need more from an old mean windbag? :

To me it boils down to BBgun's delivery and people ready to jump on him for his always negative stance on these topics. I would not mind it too much if BBGun would occasionally give a little credit where it is due but that is not his style I guess. For the most part I am close to his blaming of Jerry Jones and have been for some time. I am just not as negative about it as he is and I am also more willing to talk about the positives.

Plus this is just one of those argument/debate threads that I just could not get into at this time. Some catch my interest and draw me in, this one just seemed like it just turned into another peeing for urinal cakes type of contest where people exaggerate other people's stances and put words in their mouths in doing so. People should not be putting anything into other people's mouths when in the middle of a peeing contest.:

For me the issue with bb isnt that he either wants to bash the organization or it playes or he wants to get into pissing contests with posters over minor issues, but rather that when someone approaches him with a moderate tone he just ignores it and goes back to the hate and ego contest.

 

[Hostile]

When I already have gas, what makes you think I need more from an old mean windbag? :

To me it boils down to BBgun's delivery and people ready to jump on him for his always negative stance on these topics. I would not mind it too much if BBGun would occasionally give a little credit where it is due but that is not his style I guess. For the most part I am close to his blaming of Jerry Jones and have been for some time. I am just not as negative about it as he is and I am also more willing to talk about the positives.

Plus this is just one of those argument/debate threads that I just could not get into at this time. Some catch my interest and draw me in, this one just seemed like it just turned into another peeing for urinal cakes type of contest where people exaggerate other people's stances and put words in their mouths in doing so. People should not be putting anything into other people's mouths when in the middle of a peeing contest.:

People jump on agendas. It doesn't matter if they are positive or negative. I can site multiple examples to prove this, but will refrain unless someone disagrees.

bbgun has an anti-Jerry Jones agenda. He's going to find ways to blame Jerry for things. It's going to get jumped on. He must know that. I'm pretty sure he does. Even if he denies he has this agenda.

Any time someone becomes a broken record people will pounce on it. That's a fact of life we all better get used to. I have agendas (we all do) and people pounce on them all the time. I can either roll with it or act like a spoiled little brat. I prefer to roll with it.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Read My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys by Peter Golenbock ... it's a history of the Dallas franchise. The entire book is composed of stories right out of the players mouths. If you think the Cowboys franchise had more "good guys" back in the old days, you're seriously deluded. Seriously, you think players are bad now, think when they worked "real jobs" in the offseason on oil fields or as farm hands. NFL players were just a shade above fair carnys in those days. Bob Merrideth smoked as much weed as Quincy Carter ever did (per Pete Gent), there just wasn't drug testing in those days. There are stories of drunken hunting expeditions gone awry by Bob Lilly and LeRoy Jordan, illegal actions, coverups.


The only thing that has changed is the scrutiny by the players and the fans, and the interest on what goes on in their personal lives. Babe Ruth had more prostitutes than homeruns. Mickey Mantle was an absolute mess. None of that stuff was ever made available to the public, even when the media and beat writers knew all about it (of course, they didn't have to fill a 24 hour news cycle in those days either). It's suddenly become a media story as to what players do in their personal lives. It's especially become a huge issue since Goodell made it league mandate. Even in the last year, it's become more and more of a media sensation. I don't believe Tank Johnson is any worse than Leo Carson, but his signing seems to be getting 10X the press.

 

[CowboyJeff]

When I already have gas, what makes you think I need more from an old mean windbag? :

To me it boils down to BBgun's delivery and people ready to jump on him for his always negative stance on these topics. I would not mind it too much if BBGun would occasionally give a little credit where it is due but that is not his style I guess. For the most part I am close to his blaming of Jerry Jones and have been for some time. I am just not as negative about it as he is and I am also more willing to talk about the positives.

Plus this is just one of those argument/debate threads that I just could not get into at this time. Some catch my interest and draw me in, this one just seemed like it just turned into another peeing for urinal cakes type of contest where people exaggerate other people's stances and put words in their mouths in doing so. People should not be putting anything into other people's mouths when in the middle of a peeing contest.:

that's why God invented pissjugs. ee:

 

[dogunwo]

You did nothing wrong. You rightly pointed out Jerry's hypocrisy about building a team with character, and the usual sheep, shills and lackeys pounced. Pretty standard fare for the Zone, which is becoming Ranch-like by the day.

Jerry lied, integrity died.

You are so freakin dramatic. Its comedic gold.

 

[Hostile]

Read My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys by Peter Golenbock ... it's a history of the Dallas franchise. The entire book is composed of stories right out of the players mouths. If you think the Cowboys franchise had more "good guys" back in the old days, you're seriously deluded. Seriously, you think players are bad now, think when they worked "real jobs" in the offseason on oil fields or as farm hands. NFL players were just a shade above fair carnys in those days. Bob Merrideth smoking weed, there just wasn't drug testing in those days. There are stories of drunken hunting expeditions gone awry by Bob Lilly and LeRoy Jordan, illegal actions, coverups.


The only thing that has changed is the scrutiny by the players and the fans (Can you imagine the stories journalists must have had on Babe Ruth's crazy days that they didn't even think of publishing). It's suddenly become a media story as to what players do in their personal lives. It's especially become a huge issue since Goodell made it league mandate. Even in the last year, it's become more and more of a media sensation. I don't believe Tank Johnson is any worse than Leo Carson.

Good post.

One edit though Cowboys Have Always Been My Heroes. Slight change from the song title, and I agree. That book is pretty in depth. Much of the time the franchise turned a blind eye to stuff, and all of them do.

 

[dogunwo]

And deny you the pleasure of my company? Preposterous. In any event, I'm holding out hope that they'll hire a competent admin. Enjoy your journey to the dark side.

Ok, now I am convinced you and Hostile are doing some routine.

 

[Hostile]

Ok, now I am convinced you and Hostile are doing some routine.

I wish. I PMed him last night to find out what the issue is.

 

[Big Dakota]

Read My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys by Peter Golenbock ... it's a history of the Dallas franchise. The entire book is composed of stories right out of the players mouths. If you think the Cowboys franchise had more "good guys" back in the old days, you're seriously deluded. Seriously, you think players are bad now, think when they worked "real jobs" in the offseason on oil fields or as farm hands. NFL players were just a shade above fair carnys in those days. Bob Merrideth smoked as much weed as Quincy Carter ever did (per Pete Gent), there just wasn't drug testing in those days. There are stories of drunken hunting expeditions gone awry by Bob Lilly and LeRoy Jordan, illegal actions, coverups.


The only thing that has changed is the scrutiny by the players and the fans, and the interest on what goes on in their personal lives. Babe Ruth had more prostitutes than homeruns. Mickey Mantle was an absolute mess. None of that stuff was ever made available to the public, even when the media and beat writers knew all about it (of course, they didn't have to fill a 24 hour news cycle in those days either). It's suddenly become a media story as to what players do in their personal lives. It's especially become a huge issue since Goodell made it league mandate. Even in the last year, it's become more and more of a media sensation. I don't believe Tank Johnson is any worse than Leo Carson, but his signing seems to be getting 10X the press.

:bravo:

 

[dogunwo]

I wish. I PMed him last night to find out what the issue is.

He's secretly in love with you.

No seriously, of all the agenda pushin' posters, he is the weirdest.