CFZ TE Luke Schoonmaker vs Jake Ferguson

[Denim Chicken]

Imo, you don’t draft a TE as high and early as a 2nd round for his blocking.

And you don't draft a DT RD#1 for their run stopping--except we did.

MM is looking to run the ball and stop the run. That was the emphasis of this draft and why they made the Shoonmaker pick. It also doesn't hurt that he was the #1 TE in getting separation--something that hampered the QB last year with the pass catchers.

 

[CWR]

I've been from podcasts to podcasts, article reads, TV spots,..but i still haven't comprehend why exactly did the Cowboys
felt they just had to draft a TE high in their liking,- despite having two promising young TEs in Jake Ferguson and Peyton Hendershot.

Why did we have to draft a TE that early as the 2nd round, with those two in the mix ?

Do the Cowboys see Fergy and Shot as too lacking in blocking to be TE1 and TE2 ?

What exactly does Schoon possess as a player,... that Ferguson does not ?

Schoon ?
While I've heard and read about his blocking prowess, that’s great asset.
But frankly, I am far more interest in his receiving skills that impacts the passing game.

Imo, you don’t draft a TE as high and early as a 2nd round for his blocking.

You can get the Shawn McKeon’s and James Hanna’s for that.
You can acquire cheap vet FA tight ends for that. ala Blake Bell types.
Those types are not game changing difference makers

- There would have to be something exceptional , something special - about Schoon's receiving skills that warrants drafting him
as high as the 2nd round.

- Despite playing for a well-known ex-NFL coach in Jim Harbaugh, maybe Schoon was not in a scheme that best emphasized and stood out his receiving skills.
I fully admit that I have full Mark Andrews/ George Kettle aspirations and expectations for Schoon.
Drafted in the 2nd round … he had better at least be like Philly TE Dallas Goedert, imo.

I think its become increasingly rare to find a TE with both traits and that is why they took him. I also really liked our young TEs, but clearly the staff wasn't comfortable going into the season with those guys alone.

With Schoon they are looking at a guy who can stay in most downs and is dependable regardless of assignment. I hope it translates to the receiving game but he looks a lot like Schultz there, which is nothing prolific.

That said, if you look at 40 times for potential

Schultz 4.75
Schooln 4.63
Kelce 4.61

Clearly there is more to it, but maybe he suprises us.

 

[Jarntt]

Ferguson and Hendershot were nice surprises and showed some potential and I really like both, but I don't think either is ever going to be a top TE and apparently the team feels the same way. They obviously see something in Schoonmaker that they really like and think he can be a top TE. I guess we will see if they are correct or not. I like the pick more as time goes by. Let's see how he does in training camp

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No one liked Torrance as much as fans and draftniks.
Fans feel as if he fell and was a steal when in reality scouts didn't love him.

Man don’t get me started….I love the draft every year but I’m not gonna lie the fans make it unbearable at times. People don’t even understand how flawed their thinking is. They determine how good someone is based on how other people view their picks. If s guy falls it’s for a reason. Because Bijan went at 8 that means he went too high because experts said he should be taken later lol.

 

[blueblood70]

No one liked Torrance as much as fans and draftniks.
Fans feel as if he fell and was a steal when in reality scouts didn't love him.

what happened to not draft oft injured payers or payers with injury history high? from what o rad is Torence has issues with both knees already, that why they passed on him. hes got talent but knee issues..

 

[blueblood70]

IMO, fans are missing quite a bit on Schoonmaker. Yes, he is the best blocking TE we have had in a number of years. The current ones and including past ones had to be trained in blocking. If you watch the games and some of the tape, where Schoon stands out is not just blocking but in picking up the blitz, able to get to the outside blitzing corner or safety which is very important in the passing game. In the passing game he was always able to get open or make the tough catch.

He also catches well and has shown he can break tackles. Fans complain because he doesn't have the stats. Any of you watch the Michigan games? Michigan had 970 offense plays in 2022 of which only 370 were passes. J.J. McCarthy was the main QB as a sophomore and not a great passer by any means. They ran the ball and ran it well. Schoon was targeted 52 times and caught 35 for a little over 400 yards, some 11 yards per catch.

When we drafted Jason Witten, in the third round, his senior year he had 39 catches and 493 yards, 12.6 yards per catch. What was he known for in college, his blocking and intelligence to pick up blitz and get open and make the tough catch. So if Schoon would have had possibly a better QB and an offense that featured the pass, so stats might be better.

The point is that IMO, we got another potential Jason Witten and I for one am very good with that happening.

Ive said that 3 times since the draft now, he reminds me of Jwitt underrated but productive and steady reliable chain mover.

 

[Creeper]

I don't think the Cowboys took Schoonmaker because he is a good blocker. I think they took him because he is a good blocker and a good reliable receiver. Blockers get drafted later because they are one dimensional. Guys who can block and catch passes are more valuable.

Honestly, Schultz was not a good blocker in the run game or in the screen game. Ferguson and Hendershot were both better blockers as rookies. And I think they showed potential as receivers. Hendershot in particular seems to have some downfield potential. I would not have taken Schoonmaker in the 2nd, but I am beginning to see why the Cowboys did.

 

[McKDaddy]

No one liked Torrance as much as fans and draftniks.
Fans feel as if he fell and was a steal when in reality scouts didn't love him.

It will be curious to see how this plays out. I saw a road grader who held up against the best player in the draft and in the best conference.

Am I saying he was the most impressive G prospect I have ever seen? No

I am saying he looked like he would fit the bill for protecting the center of the line in pass pro and opening holes with physical run blocking. I thought those were important to our 2023 game plan.

 

[quickccc]

And you don't draft a DT RD#1 for their run stopping--except we did.

MM is looking to run the ball and stop the run. That was the emphasis of this draft and why they made the Shoonmaker pick. It also doesn't hurt that he was the #1 TE in getting separation--something that hampered the QB last year with the pass catchers.

Question is: do they see more than a pure run stuffing 1 tech in Mazzi ?

The irony is we reportedly we were actually interested in 340-350 lb mammoth DT Vita Vea in the first round (should he have dropped to our 1st rd slot)
..even when we still had " quick twitch" Rod Marinelli.

Supposedly the club thought Vita Vea despite his enormous girth, had some 3 tech traits, and could be more of a pass rusher than what was given credit for.

Could the same be thought of for Mazzi Smith ?

 

[Aven8]

If you’re gonna run the football you need two capable blocking TE’s. Fergs is one and Spoonman is the other.

 

[Robster8989]

No one, including myself, can judge a draft or a draft pick at this point.
Personally, I feel we reached a lot in this draft.
Even with all the celebration about Mazi, I was hoping we could trade back and still get him, while picking up another draft asset.
Schoon I feel was an even bigger reach.
But that's just my opinion.
Schoon is a good blocker, better that Schultz, Fergy or Hendy.
He is also a fine athlete and has the potential to be a dangerous weapon offensively.

I do think that MM's offense is going to be much different from KM's.
I wasn't a huge fan of KM's offense, despite the sometime spectacular numbers. It was a feast or famine (see playoff games vs Bucs and Niners).
I believe MM is going to simplify things a bit for Dak. Fewer down field throws to WR's, more quick, high % hits to backs and TE's.More running, more ball control, fewer 3 and outs. Maybe fewer points but more efficient and more clock buring.
That goes well with a D that can shut donw the run, which is why I think Mazi is a great fit.
With Mazi and Hankins, we will be tough to run against. Look at the stats from last year, with Hankins and without him.

We are in a physical conference. The Eagles and Niners are very physical teams. I think we have been more of a finesse team. 2 years ago for sure, last year, less so, and I believe even less so this season. We will be a gind it out, run and quick passing, with occasional down the field hits, offense that eats clock, and a physical, stop the run and let our great Edge players feast D.
More physical. Punch you in face kind of team.

So while I do think we reached on Mazi and Schoon, I believe they both fit into this plan extremely well.

 

[quickccc]

I don't think the Cowboys took Schoonmaker because he is a good blocker. I think they took him because he is a good blocker and a good reliable receiver. Blockers get drafted later because they are one dimensional. Guys who can block and catch passes are more valuable.

Honestly, Schultz was not a good blocker in the run game or in the screen game. Ferguson and Hendershot were both better blockers as rookies. And I think they showed potential as receivers. Hendershot in particular seems to have some downfield potential. I would not have taken Schoonmaker in the 2nd, but I am beginning to see why the Cowboys did.

I tend to think that since there was such a big blitz rush on TEs being quickly drafted up in the 2nd round,..that the Cowboys could have panicked some, and possibly decided to
elevate Schoon into the 2nd round, rather than the 3rd round, where at the bottom of the 3rd, it would not have been a favorable chance he would have still been there.

 

[Risen Star]

I've been from podcasts to podcasts, article reads, TV spots,..but i still haven't comprehend why exactly did the Cowboys
felt they just had to draft a TE high in their liking,- despite having two promising young TEs in Jake Ferguson and Peyton Hendershot.

Well there's your problem. Ferguson and Hendershot are not two promising young TEs. They are career backups. The Cowboys want better.

Why they decided Schoonmaker was that guy I don't know. One thing he does do clearly better than Ferguson is he can get down the field without looking like he's got a hernia.

 

[817Gill]

I think he’s protecting himself or he’s been coached to get down quick.

Maybe you’re right though.

Just odd that one of the best athletes we’ve seen at TE has no balance haha.

Interesting stat I found is that he led or was 2nd in the country in receiving yards on crossing routes.

I think you’ll see him used alot on that type of play in Mikes O.

 

[shabazz]

We needed help offensively and the Niners game with us scoring 1 TD proved that.

we picked up Cooks at the WR position and now a TE that we all hope can become a security blanket for Dak as well as block at a high level.

My beef hasn’t been with the players picked at their draft positions ……it was not moving up to get that elite TE or DT they coveted in a draft bereft of normal 1st round talent

 

[cnuball21]

I've been from podcasts to podcasts, article reads, TV spots,..but i still haven't comprehend why exactly did the Cowboys
felt they just had to draft a TE high in their liking,- despite having two promising young TEs in Jake Ferguson and Peyton Hendershot.

Why did we have to draft a TE that early as the 2nd round, with those two in the mix ?

Do the Cowboys see Fergy and Shot as too lacking in blocking to be TE1 and TE2 ?

What exactly does Schoon possess as a player,... that Ferguson does not ?

Schoon ?
While I've heard and read about his blocking prowess, that’s great asset.
But frankly, I am far more interest in his receiving skills that impacts the passing game.

Imo, you don’t draft a TE as high and early as a 2nd round for his blocking.

You can get the Shawn McKeon’s and James Hanna’s for that.
You can acquire cheap vet FA tight ends for that. ala Blake Bell types.
Those types are not game changing difference makers

- There would have to be something exceptional , something special - about Schoon's receiving skills that warrants drafting him
as high as the 2nd round.

- Despite playing for a well-known ex-NFL coach in Jim Harbaugh, maybe Schoon was not in a scheme that best emphasized and stood out his receiving skills.
I fully admit that I have full Mark Andrews/ George Kettle aspirations and expectations for Schoon.
Drafted in the 2nd round … he had better at least be like Philly TE Dallas Goedert, imo.

The Cowboys clearly want to get 2 TEs on the field at the same time a lot this year and I don’t think they feel great about the current bunch. My guess is they like Fergy but don’t trust Hendershots blocking ability.

So they made their minds up they were taking a TE eary, panicked in the 2nd, and reached to fill that need.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Why did we have to draft a TE that early as the 2nd round, with those two in the mix ?

Do the Cowboys see Fergy and Shot as too lacking in blocking to be TE1 and TE2 ?

What exactly does Schoon possess as a player,... that Ferguson does not ?

Imo, you don’t draft a TE as high and early as a 2nd round for his blocking.

The Cowboys wanted to improve their run and pass blocking. He was the best one in the draft. Plus his receiving skills. He is a better blocker than Ferg or Shot.

Love this that X just posted:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/ras-cowboys-tes.510894/#post-12752165

 

[big dog cowboy]

So they made their minds up they were taking a TE eary, panicked in the 2nd, and reached to fill that need.

Good grief. That so isn't true. Goodness.

 

[jterrell]

It will be curious to see how this plays out. I saw a road grader who held up against the best player in the draft and in the best conference.

Am I saying he was the most impressive G prospect I have ever seen? No

I am saying he looked like he would fit the bill for protecting the center of the line in pass pro and opening holes with physical run blocking. I thought those were important to our 2023 game plan.

I liked Torrence too but I saw Bob McGinn's anonymous scout report and one of those guys flatly stated he wouldn't go until late R2 or R3 that he wasnt very good.

The meat is hidden behind a paywall but this note below is in free snippet.::
“This is the worst offensive-line crowd in the history of the draft — maybe,” a long-in-the-tooth NFL personnel executive. “We have like 15 guys in our top 150. For an entire 32-team league. We need 320 linemen.

“It’s so bad,” he continued. “There’s going to be some reaches on offensive linemen in this draft. I think every lineman in the top 100 overall will go a half-round to a full round, if not two rounds, higher than they normally would in a given year.”

 

[big dog cowboy]

I'm not super high on the pick since I believe he likely would have been there in the 3rd

Zero chance that happens.