Teen girl beat up in Seattle Metro station

[CowboyMcCoy]

This, and watching bystanders continue to walk past police officers engaged in struggling to apprehend suspects sickens me. You see like 5 or 6 nonchalantly walk past. If even just 2 bystanders stop, they and the police officer could easily do the job.

People are so ****ing scared nowadays to do the right thing.

Citizens don't know why the police are apprehending suspects and it's not their jobs to intervene. Why would they risk getting hurt over something they don't get paid for? They're suspects. And the protocol with most departments is to not have citizens intervene at all. You can read this much on most sheriff department websites on the warrant page, etc.

OTOH, most times you see 7 police cars frisking down one homeless guy for sitting on the sidewalk. I often ask myself, how many Aggies does it take to check out a hobo?

Once when I was young, about 19, I was at a bar in San Angelo. There was a brawl outside and a cop was trying to break it up with a large crowd around.

I was behind him and I stuck my knee out to his butt and he fell over onto his head. Yes, I thought it was funny at the time. Part of me still does. I'm not the most cop-friendly person you'll ever meet.

It doesn't take much to become one, so I've seen a lot of them that I just think are worthless scum. Just the other day here in Austin, there was a cop arrested for photographing children in the dressing room of a clothing store near St. Edwards University.

Stories like this thread and many others give me many reasons not to give cops the respect they, and others, think they deserve.

That's right, co-cheese, go eat some more fried bread. :cop:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Citizens don't know why the police are apprehending suspects and it's not their jobs to intervene. Why would they risk getting hurt over something they don't get paid for? They're suspects. And the protocol with most departments is to not have citizens intervene at all. You can read this much on most sheriff department websites on the warrant page, etc.

This whole quote is laughable.

I think you're misconstruing police telling citizens to not try to apprehend wanted fugitives by themselves. That they should immediately contact law enforcement instead.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

This whole quote is laughable.

I think you're misconstruing police telling citizens to not try to apprehend wanted fugitives by themselves. That they should immediately contact law enforcement instead.

It's also laughable, in terms of being humorous, that my own confessional impulse compels me to write about my dislike of cops in general on a board where I know I'll catch a lot of flack for it. I have no problem admitting it. I think a lot of people do.

And a different note, when police are apprehending "perps", I can assure you they're not trained to seek help from citizens. That's why we have police. In fact, citizens are often told to stay out of it and to stand back or out of the way. That's the protocol even in random situations on the streets.... That's what their training calls for.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It's also laughable, in terms of being humorous, that my own confessional impulse compels me to write about my dislike of cops in general on a board where I know I'll catch a lot of flack for it. I have no problem admitting it. I think a lot of people do.

And a different note, when police are apprehending "perps", I can assure you they're not trained to seek help from citizens. That's why we have police. In fact, citizens are often told to stay out of it and to stand back or out of the way. That's the protocol even in random situations on the streets.... That's what their training calls for.

Police shouldn't have to ask for your help if they are clearly in need of it. That's my point.

I'm not saying you should bum-rush every guy who is dealing with the cops, but if the cop is in an altercation and it looks like he has more than he can handle. Man up.

Not every cop can apprehend people single-hand-idly. No matter how much they are trained.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Police shouldn't have to ask for your help if they are clearly in need of it. That's my point.

I'm not saying you should bum-rush every guy who is dealing with the cops, but if the cop is in an altercation and it looks like he has more than he can handle. Man up.

Not every cop can apprehend people single-hand-idly. No matter how much they are trained.

This is true. My dad told me a story how a cop was not only overpowered, but was about to take a major beatdown when some big "football-type" dude came along, grabbed the "perp" (for lack of a better word) by the neck to where the guy was floundering like a kid. Found out later the guy had military training. The officer was grateful.

That said, I'd probably call 911 if I see a police officer getting handled...unless it's directly in front of me. As has been mentioned, they're trained to deal with the situation better than if a person, even a well-intentioned one came along to offer an assist.

 

[burmafrd]

every time mccoy posts about cops I think of Kartr and his posts about quincy. Both belong about as much in the real world.

 

[joseephuss]

Last year at a Randalls grocery store in Round Rock one of employees chased down a thief who stole a customers purse. He was fired due to a company policy to not intervene in such matters.

http://photoblog.statesman.com/good-deed-gets-noticed-in-a-wrong-way

Every situation is different. Sometimes it is difficult as a bystander to tell who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. Sometimes it is clear cut and you know who to help, but sometimes you don't. Sometimes the cops don't, either.

Some friends and I were walking to our car after being down at the bars on 6th street one night. We rounded a corner and came across a small brawl. It turned out some guys jumped one guy and a few bystanders jumped in to try and stop the fight. The cops arrived just before my group got there and just peppered sprayed everyone involved in the fight. The cops didn't know how the fight started or who was involved. How could they? That is a tough part of the job.

I agree that there are some bad apples in law enforcement. There has to be. There is always a certain percentage of people out there who are jerks. Every industry and business has them, so law enforcement is not immune to them. That does not mean that the majority of cops are jerks. There are many, many good ones. I respect cops. I may come across one or two that I don't respect at some time, but I probably would not respect that person if they were a teacher or a stock broker.

 

[Doomsday101]

To say it is not my job to help a person in serious need, is wrong.
I'm not a paramedic or a doctor but when someone is injured I think people should provide assistant anyway they can to help that injured person.

If you see someone being beaten like this young girl was yes those bystanders should step in to stop what is going on.

Police and paramedics certainly have a job to do but they can't always be there in time and for anyone to just stand there and watch like it is some sporting event is sick.

 

[zrinkill]

All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

 

[Hostile]

Last year at a Randalls grocery store in Round Rock one of employees chased down a thief who stole a customers purse. He was fired due to a company policy to not intervene in such matters.

http://photoblog.statesman.com/good-deed-gets-noticed-in-a-wrong-way

Every situation is different. Sometimes it is difficult as a bystander to tell who is the bad guy and who is the good guy. Sometimes it is clear cut and you know who to help, but sometimes you don't. Sometimes the cops don't, either.

Some friends and I were walking to our car after being down at the bars on 6th street one night. We rounded a corner and came across a small brawl. It turned out some guys jumped one guy and a few bystanders jumped in to try and stop the fight. The cops arrived just before my group got there and just peppered sprayed everyone involved in the fight. The cops didn't know how the fight started or who was involved. How could they? That is a tough part of the job.

I agree that there are some bad apples in law enforcement. There has to be. There is always a certain percentage of people out there who are jerks. Every industry and business has them, so law enforcement is not immune to them. That does not mean that the majority of cops are jerks. There are many, many good ones. I respect cops. I may come across one or two that I don't respect at some time, but I probably would not respect that person if they were a teacher or a stock broker.

With all due respect, a grocery store employee is nowhere near a Security Officer in terms of expected performance. I agree with the lady in the video. If they are not there to help someone, why have them?

That was Seattle tax dollars at work. Would you like your taxes spent so someone could observe something like that? I could understand some hesitancy if this was huge men with friends as backups nearby. It was teenage girls. There's no excuse.

Give me 5 minutes with each of those "men" where no one does anything to help them. See how they like it. They could each observe 2 beatdowns and report 3. It is no less than all 3 of them deserve.

 

[joseephuss]

With all due respect, a grocery store employee is nowhere near a Security Officer in terms of expected performance. I agree with the lady in the video. If they are not there to help someone, why have them?

That was Seattle tax dollars at work. Would you like your taxes spent so someone could observe something like that? I could understand some hesitancy if this was huge men with friends as backups nearby. It was teenage girls. There's no excuse.

Give me 5 minutes with each of those "men" where no one does anything to help them. See how they like it. They could each observe 2 beatdowns and report 3. It is no less than all 3 of them deserve.

Sorry, I did not mean for my post to come off as a comparison of the two. They are two very different situations and I agree with you. These security officials were in the wrong. They should have done something.

 

[VietCowboy]

I do think those guards should have done something

but,

I have to say with the sue-happy people we've become, a lot of people, including doctors, become very hesitant to help unless it is dire or with minimal risk to themselves. If something were to occur in the process of your aid, you could definitely be held liable for any suffering and damages. Whether or not it is justified, the headache from hiring lawyers, the time spent in court is a big detractor.

And, it is always easier to do nothing. Not that it is right, just easier.

 

[Doomsday101]

I do think those guards should have done something

but,

I have to say with the sue-happy people we've become, a lot of people, including doctors, become very hesitant to help unless it is dire or with minimal risk to themselves. If something were to occur in the process of your aid, you could definitely be held liable for any suffering and damages. Whether or not it is justified, the headache from hiring lawyers, the time spent in court is a big detractor.

And, it is always easier to do nothing. Not that it is right, just easier.

I don't know the law in Seattle but many states have Good Samaritan laws that protect you when giving aid to those in need

 

[Hoofbite]

All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

Katie Holmes recites something similar in Batman Begins.

Obviously a rip bit I always find it funny when famous quotes work their way into pop culture.

 

[Hoofbite]

Personally, I think the system is as much to blame as the guards.

I say "guards" because as their job description dictates, they did what they were supposed to do.

As a human being, they all failed.

That said, you cannot have a security system in place that does not allow intervention in such scenarios. Unarmed, unprepared and unable doesn't sound like any sort of security system I want.

At the bare minimum, those guys should have pepper spray and more realistically they should have tazers.

Just another "illusion" of safety and it is a damn shame that some little girl had to get mauled over it.

As far as the "rent-a-cop" comment a few posts above, I think that's pretty pathetic as well.

 

[VietCowboy]

I don't know the law in Seattle but many states have Good Samaritan laws that protect you when giving aid to those in need

true, but they vary so much from place to place, unless you know the laws for where you are, it's always a risk that you could be held liable.

 

[joseephuss]

Personally, I think the system is as much to blame as the guards.

I say "guards" because as their job description dictates, they did what they were supposed to do.

As a human being, they all failed.

That said, you cannot have a security system in place that does not allow intervention in such scenarios. Unarmed, unprepared and unable doesn't sound like any sort of security system I want.

At the bare minimum, those guys should have pepper spray and more realistically they should have tazers.

Just another "illusion" of safety and it is a damn shame that some little girl had to get mauled over it.

As far as the "rent-a-cop" comment a few posts above, I think that's pretty pathetic as well.

I think if one of the guys just made an effort to get in between the two girls that it may have been enough to provide the "illusion" of safety or authority and keep the whole ordeal from escalating. Some people can be dissuaded from using violence or aggression by someone else stepping in with an assertive voice or posture. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a good tazer can be very useful and is a nice tool.

 

[trickblue]

true, but they vary so much from place to place, unless you know the laws for where you are, it's always a risk that you could be held liable.

Very true VC... and I understand that train of thought given our litigious society...

I'm just glad that there are some people in this world that put their own welfare behind that of others in need... damn the cost...

It's the greatest hope that we have for this cynical world we live in...

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

every time mccoy posts about cops I think of Kartr and his posts about quincy. Both belong about as much in the real world.

Ironic.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Sorry, I did not mean for my post to come off as a comparison of the two. They are two very different situations and I agree with you. These security officials were in the wrong. They should have done something.

I agree with that much. But like cops, it doesn't take much in terms of qualifications to be one.