Teen girl beat up in Seattle Metro station

[CowboyMcCoy]

I think if one of the guys just made an effort to get in between the two girls that it may have been enough to provide the "illusion" of safety or authority and keep the whole ordeal from escalating. Some people can be dissuaded from using violence or aggression by someone else stepping in with an assertive voice or posture. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a good tazer can be very useful and is a nice tool.

Tasers kill people. Pepper spray is much safer.

=====
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623

Researchers from U.C. San Francisco are raising questions about the safety of Tasers. The stun guns are becoming standard weapons for law enforcement agencies, but this latest research indicates the real-world application of stun guns is leading to greater medical risks.

The Taser has become a tool more law enforcement agencies have come to rely on. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, 50,000 volts are injected into the target. Advocates say it's a safe way to subdue a suspect, but UCSF researchers, have their doubts.

"In our opinion, there is a potential lethal risk with Tasers," said Zian Tseng, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Related Content

Cardiologists Byron Lee and Zian Tseng studied data provided by law enforcement agencies from 50 cities, and found the number of in-custody deaths went up six-fold in the first year a department started using Tasers. Lee and Tseng believe officers may be aiming too close to the heart.

"The Taser shoots pulses several times per second. Those pulses can actually overtake the heart and cause a heart rate that's 250 to 300 beats per minutes," said Tseng.

Many law enforcement agencies in the Bay Area use Tasers including Oakland Police, but the department says it has never had any Taser-related deaths.

"I think our training is pretty superior here at the Oakland Police Department," said Lt. Jeff Thomason, an Oakland Police Department spokesperson.

Jeff Thomason of Oakland Police says officers in his department must take a 10 hour class before using a Taser, as well as an annual four-hour review. Oakland Police officers also call for an ambulance every time they Tase a suspect just to be safe.

"It's a great standoff weapon for us. It causes our officers not to engage violent hostile suspects out on the street. And it has limited our number of injuries to officers and to suspects," said Lt. Thomason.

Even so, UCSF researchers say based on their study, it might be time for all law enforcement agencies to review their Taser policy, how they use them, and whether or not they need them at all.

"We think more research needs to be done to make sure we're not doing anything to harm the public," said Bryon Lee, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Researchers can see their observational study has limitations. Several California cities and all of the largest U.S. cities surveyed were unwilling to release information.

You can read the Taser study from the American Journal of Cardiology.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623
====

I know, I know. Guys like Burm are going to say, "oh noes, that study is from California, so it can't be true."

For me tasers are the epitome of a cop out. If you're a cop you're job is to handle situations and you should be physically trained to deal with high-risk situations. That's the problem for me with most cops, they're poorly trained and by and large poorly educated. Most wouldn't be cops if they actually had an education. But, in my opinion, the government is responsible for that since they set the salary of police--and the public for allowing the government to get away with it.

With today's taser happy cops we have even less objectivity. Instead of trying to find out what is causing the situation the escalate and use other tactics that could be learned to deal with perps through education, they just get taser happy.

Pepper spray, cool. Tasers, not cool. Both render the subject incapacitated for a while, so I don't even see why we're still letting our government use these things on our citizens when they obviously kill more people than they should.

In fact, more people are killed by cops with tasers than cops with guns.

 

[Cover 2]

Tasers kill people. Pepper spray is much safer.

=====
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623

Researchers from U.C. San Francisco are raising questions about the safety of Tasers. The stun guns are becoming standard weapons for law enforcement agencies, but this latest research indicates the real-world application of stun guns is leading to greater medical risks.

The Taser has become a tool more law enforcement agencies have come to rely on. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, 50,000 volts are injected into the target. Advocates say it's a safe way to subdue a suspect, but UCSF researchers, have their doubts.

"In our opinion, there is a potential lethal risk with Tasers," said Zian Tseng, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Related Content

Cardiologists Byron Lee and Zian Tseng studied data provided by law enforcement agencies from 50 cities, and found the number of in-custody deaths went up six-fold in the first year a department started using Tasers.Lee and Tseng believe officers may be aiming too close to the heart.

"The Taser shoots pulses several times per second. Those pulses can actually overtake the heart and cause a heart rate that's 250 to 300 beats per minutes," said Tseng.

Many law enforcement agencies in the Bay Area use Tasers including Oakland Police, but the department says it has never had any Taser-related deaths.

"I think our training is pretty superior here at the Oakland Police Department," said Lt. Jeff Thomason, an Oakland Police Department spokesperson.

Jeff Thomason of Oakland Police says officers in his department must take a 10 hour class before using a Taser, as well as an annual four-hour review. Oakland Police officers also call for an ambulance every time they Tase a suspect just to be safe.

"It's a great standoff weapon for us. It causes our officers not to engage violent hostile suspects out on the street. And it has limited our number of injuries to officers and to suspects," said Lt. Thomason.

Even so, UCSF researchers say based on their study, it might be time for all law enforcement agencies to review their Taser policy, how they use them, and whether or not they need them at all.

"We think more research needs to be done to make sure we're not doing anything to harm the public," said Bryon Lee, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Researchers can see their observational study has limitations. Several California cities and all of the largest U.S. cities surveyed were unwilling to release information.

You can read the Taser study from the American Journal of Cardiology.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623
====

I know, I know. Guys like Burm are going to say, "oh noes, that study is from California, so it can't be true."

For me tasers are the epitome of a cop out. If you're a cop you're job is to handle situations and you should be physically trained to deal with high-risk situations. That's the problem for me with most cops, they're poorly trained and by and large poorly educated. Most wouldn't be cops if they actually had an education. But, in my opinion, the government is responsible for that since they set the salary of police--and the public for allowing the government to get away with it.

With today's taser happy cops we have even less objectivity. Instead of trying to find out what is causing the situation the escalate and use other tactics that could be learned to deal with perps through education, they just get taser happy.

Pepper spray, cool. Tasers, not cool. Both render the subject incapacitated for a while, so I don't even see why we're still letting our government use these things on our citizens when they obviously kill more people than they should.

In fact, more people are killed by cops with tasers than cops with guns.

Where I live cops have to have a Bachelor Degree. Unless you're saying they aren't trained properly I disagree with that. At least in the cities.

 

[trickblue]

Tasers kill people. Pepper spray is much safer.

=====
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623

Researchers from U.C. San Francisco are raising questions about the safety of Tasers. The stun guns are becoming standard weapons for law enforcement agencies, but this latest research indicates the real-world application of stun guns is leading to greater medical risks.

The Taser has become a tool more law enforcement agencies have come to rely on. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, 50,000 volts are injected into the target. Advocates say it's a safe way to subdue a suspect, but UCSF researchers, have their doubts.

"In our opinion, there is a potential lethal risk with Tasers," said Zian Tseng, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Related Content

Cardiologists Byron Lee and Zian Tseng studied data provided by law enforcement agencies from 50 cities, and found the number of in-custody deaths went up six-fold in the first year a department started using Tasers. Lee and Tseng believe officers may be aiming too close to the heart.

"The Taser shoots pulses several times per second. Those pulses can actually overtake the heart and cause a heart rate that's 250 to 300 beats per minutes," said Tseng.

Many law enforcement agencies in the Bay Area use Tasers including Oakland Police, but the department says it has never had any Taser-related deaths.

"I think our training is pretty superior here at the Oakland Police Department," said Lt. Jeff Thomason, an Oakland Police Department spokesperson.

Jeff Thomason of Oakland Police says officers in his department must take a 10 hour class before using a Taser, as well as an annual four-hour review. Oakland Police officers also call for an ambulance every time they Tase a suspect just to be safe.

"It's a great standoff weapon for us. It causes our officers not to engage violent hostile suspects out on the street. And it has limited our number of injuries to officers and to suspects," said Lt. Thomason.

Even so, UCSF researchers say based on their study, it might be time for all law enforcement agencies to review their Taser policy, how they use them, and whether or not they need them at all.

"We think more research needs to be done to make sure we're not doing anything to harm the public," said Bryon Lee, MD, a UCSF researcher.

Researchers can see their observational study has limitations. Several California cities and all of the largest U.S. cities surveyed were unwilling to release information.

You can read the Taser study from the American Journal of Cardiology.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623
====

I know, I know. Guys like Burm are going to say, "oh noes, that study is from California, so it can't be true."

For me tasers are the epitome of a cop out. If you're a cop you're job is to handle situations and you should be physically trained to deal with high-risk situations. That's the problem for me with most cops, they're poorly trained and by and large poorly educated. Most wouldn't be cops if they actually had an education. But, in my opinion, the government is responsible for that since they set the salary of police--and the public for allowing the government to get away with it.

With today's taser happy cops we have even less objectivity. Instead of trying to find out what is causing the situation the escalate and use other tactics that could be learned to deal with perps through education, they just get taser happy.

Pepper spray, cool. Tasers, not cool. Both render the subject incapacitated for a while, so I don't even see why we're still letting our government use these things on our citizens when they obviously kill more people than they should.

In fact, more people are killed by cops with tasers than cops with guns.

A good swift kick to the nads is MUCH more effective... and could very well stop future offspring when performed with expertise...

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Where I live cops have to have a Bachelor Degree. Unless you're saying they aren't trained properly I disagree with that. At least in the cities.

That's not the case everywhere. It depends on the department. I would say most of the U.S.'s cops have only a H.S. diploma.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

A good swift kick to the nads is MUCH more effective... and could very well stop future offspring when performed with expertise...

I'd rather be kicked in the Jimmy than tasered. :

 

[Hostile]

I'd rather be kicked in the Jimmy than tasered. :

I've got a cousin or two in San Angelo who would probably be more than happy to accommodate you.

 

[trickblue]

I've got a cousin or two in San Angelo who would probably be more than happy to accommodate you.

To be fair... that's all they have to do in San Angelo...

 

[LilTexan]

You've stepped into situations like that?

I've never had the opportunity.

I did. My husband's band was playing a dive and we were all outside during a break and some guy was beating the **** out of a woman in their car in the parking lot. He walked around to her side of the car and opened the door and planted a foot in her face. I was incensed and yelled at him and darted that direction, expecting the big, bad men in my company to back me up. Not a one did. The guy started coming towards me and I just lost it with him. THANKFULLY he just took off and didn't assault me (which never even occurred to me at the time....adrenalin is a hell of a thing) and I went and checked on the woman. (I think that he must have seen the group behind me approaching, when they finally did upon seeing him come after me, and decided he was hopelessly outnumbered.)

She ended up totally fine, thankfully, and was even drinking in the bar later on.

I can't IMAGINE witnessing something like this and not aiding, no matter the circumstances. I know from experience that my first instinct would be to intervene without even thinking.

I'd like to do to those damn security guards what I wanted to do to that ******* that night at the bar.

 

[CliffnDallas]

A couple of months ago I found a drunk passed out on a couch in our lobby. I could not wake him so I called the police. The cop woke him and the guy came up swinging at the cop. It took both of us to get him down and cuff him.
So instead of going to the tank for PI. He was charged with criminal tresspass, resisting arrest and two counts of assault.

 

[burmafrd]

Taser or a bullet? only a moron wants the bullet.

 

[Hostile]

To be fair... that's all they have to do in San Angelo...

Maybe so, but they are cops and sons of a cop. They'd be pretty motivated.

 

[Doomsday101]

true, but they vary so much from place to place, unless you know the laws for where you are, it's always a risk that you could be held liable.

True. I will say I have never thought about the law when someone was in dire need of help. I would hope if a loved one was in need of help someone would stand up and do what is right

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Maybe so, but they are cops and sons of a cop. They'd be pretty motivated.

That sucks.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Taser or a bullet? only a moron wants the bullet.

LOL @ the editor. That wasn't what I was referring to at all: your ever so clever either taser or bullet bit. I was saying pepper spray is much more effective and should be the means by which cops incapacitate perps, not tasers.

 

[Doomsday101]

LOL @ the editor. That wasn't what I was referring to at all: your ever so clever either taser or bullet bit. I was saying pepper spray is much more effective and should be the means by which cops incapacitate perps, not tasers.

who says pepper spray is more effective? You must spray them in the face exactly, if they are wearing glasses it may not stop them or if when outside your just as likely to blind yourself as the criminal in windy conditions. Best thing you can do is abide by what the police officer is asking you to do if not then chances are you will get tasered but then that beats the heck out of getting shot.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

who says pepper spray is more effective? You must spray them in the face exactly, if they are wearing glasses it may not stop them or if when outside your just as likely to blind yourself as the criminal in windy conditions. Best thing you can do is abide by what the police officer is asking you to do if not then chances are you will get tasered but then that beats the heck out of getting shot.

Tasers kill people; peppers spray doesn't. In most cases these are not life or death situations for the cops. They are merely dealing with combative or resisting suspects, in which case I believe they should call for back up or use pepper spray...as opposed to potentially killing someone with a taser. JMO, Dooms, you're entitled to yours.

 

[Longboysfan]

3 - more for the unemployment line.
4 - more to go through the courts and to jail.

 

[Doomsday101]

Tasers kill people; peppers spray doesn't. In most cases these are not life or death situations for the cops. They are merely dealing with combative or resisting suspects, in which case I believe they should call for back up or use pepper spray...as opposed to potentially killing someone with a taser. JMO, Dooms, you're entitled to yours.

Pepper spray can and has, those with breathing problems have suffered and died because of pepper spray. By the way you used the key words "combative or resisting suspects" Do what the cop ask you get crazy you put that cop on the defensive very quickly and they are not going to put their life at any greater risk than they have to. Idiots that mouth off to cops end up screwing themselves over, do what is asked if you have an issue with the cops behavior then contact internal affairs but challenging police out on the streets especially now days where there is only 1 cop to a car is just stupid.


For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los Angeles Times has reported at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA,[5]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) documented 27 people in police custody who died after exposure to pepper spray in California since 1993.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Pepper spray can and has, those with breathing problems have suffered and died because of pepper spray. By the way you used the key words "combative or resisting suspects" Do what the cop ask you get crazy you put that cop on the defensive very quickly and they are not going to put their life at any greater risk than they have to. Idiots that mouth off to cops end up screwing themselves over, do what is asked if you have an issue with the cops behavior then contact internal affairs but challenging police out on the streets especially now days where there is only 1 cop to a car is just stupid.


For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los Angeles Times has reported at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA,[5]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) documented 27 people in police custody who died after exposure to pepper spray in California since 1993.

Interesting. I shall reconsider my position on pepper spray. But I disagree with the part about "mouthing off" to cops. We live under the illusion of free speech when we start thinking that calling a cop a pinhead is against the law. I'll agree to disagree on that point. But your point about pepper spray is well taken. Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know that.

 

[Thatkidbob]

Pepper spray can and has, those with breathing problems have suffered and died because of pepper spray. By the way you used the key words "combative or resisting suspects" Do what the cop ask you get crazy you put that cop on the defensive very quickly and they are not going to put their life at any greater risk than they have to. Idiots that mouth off to cops end up screwing themselves over, do what is asked if you have an issue with the cops behavior then contact internal affairs but challenging police out on the streets especially now days where there is only 1 cop to a car is just stupid.

Interesting... because I know that If I throw the first punch in a situation because someone is talking all sorts of mess, then I've committed assault and they have a self defense exemption from prosecution. This is why I never throw the first punch

But you're telling me that if I mouth off to a cop, and he takes some sort of physical action against me (in other words, he initiates a fight), I'm in the wrong?

That doesn't sound right.