Terence Newman ranked the 21st CB in the league.

[burmafrd]

Certain people do not care how many catches and tds you give up as long as you get some INTs and look good on BSPN.

 

[Charles]

The rankings are bogus, but one things for sure Terence Newman ain't no Champ Bailey.

 

[burmafrd]

Actually, for the previous year (2005) Newman was better THAT year then Bailey was.

 

[Charles]

Actually, for the previous year (2005) Newman was better THAT year then Bailey was.

Hahaha. There are only 2 players in the NFL that have been unanimous AP All Pro selections in the past 2-3 seasons. LT and Champ Bailey.

The AP consists of local beat writers votes with significant input from GMs., coaches and players.

Players and coaches also contribute 2/3 of the votes for the Pro Bowl, they also have access to Newmans stats, but he's never been to Hawaii.

I like Newman. I'd only take 2 or 3 CBs in the NFL over Newman, but in reality Newman has never consistently played at an elite level. Folks around these parts like to highlight his positives, but totally ignore the negatives. For a player drafted 5th overall he lacks the game changing potential that every GM and organization looks for when selecting high in the draft.

Terence Newman has never played on a Champ Bailey level, but the rankings are still bogus. I have Newman in the 5-10 range.

 

[burmafrd]

Champ did not have a good year in 2005. While Newman had his best year.
The Pro Bowl means NOTHING. Not to people who really look hard at the players. Anyone trying to use the probowl to prove ANYTHING is not someone to listen to. KC Joyner and several other sites that look hard at stats and such had Newman as the best CB in the NFL in 2005; and I think either Dr Z or Burger king talked about all the film he watched and then to his suprise came to the conclusion that Newman was the best that season. Bailey had an off year in 2005; and Newman had his best.

 

[Charles]

Champ did not have a good year in 2005. While Newman had his best year.
The Pro Bowl means NOTHING. Not to people who really look hard at the players. Anyone trying to use the probowl to prove ANYTHING is not someone to listen to. KC Joyner and several other sites that look hard at stats and such had Newman as the best CB in the NFL in 2005; and I think either Dr Z or Burger king talked about all the film he watched and then to his suprise came to the conclusion that Newman was the best that season. Bailey had an off year in 2005; and Newman had his best.

:laugh1: Newman had his best year in 2005 yet, the people who PLAYand COACH and also coincidentally account for 2/3 of the Pro Bowl votes saw fit to leave Newman out of the Pro Bowl in 2005. That is mysterious.....ain't it.

This line of thinking is ridiculous. Stats never tell the whole story and that is the reason why Newman is not and has never been considered an elite player.

Somewhat similar to comparing Andre Gurode and Al Johnson as being similar players because Julius Jones stats didn't improve much up the middle in 2006

 

[superpunk]

Somewhat similar to comparing Andre Gurode and Al Johnson as being similar players because Julius Jones stats didn't improve much up the middle in 2006

Charles, just because you do not posess the comprehension to understand the relevancy and logic of that point, does not make it ridiculous, or a bad judgement point.

I say that, but I know that you actually DO understand why it is relevant, because you have cited Marion Barber's ypc improving up the middle as a reason for Gurode's play being superior in 2006. So, either you're a hypocrite, or you're just playing dumb - (or not "playing", whatever you prefer).

The fact remains, Gurode did not improve the numbers of our starting tailback running behind him at all, in fact he got worse. You may cite Julius' weakness being runs up the middle, but that does not address the fact that there was NO improvement. Julius could still suck at running up the middle, Gurode (if superior, as you claim) should just make him suck less.

You can keep it up, and display yourself for what you are (over and over again) or you can let it go. That's up to you.

 

[CATCH17]

The rankings are bogus, but one things for sure Terence Newman ain't no Champ Bailey.

I'll agree but i'll take Newmans first 4 seasons over Champ Baileys first 4 seasons any day.

 

[Charles]

Charles, just because you do not posess the comprehension to understand the relevancy and logic of that point, does not make it ridiculous, or a bad judgement point.

I say that, but I know that you actually DO understand why it is relevant, because you have cited Marion Barber's ypc improving up the middle as a reason for Gurode's play being superior in 2006. So, either you're a hypocrite, or you're just playing dumb - (or not "playing", whatever you prefer).

The fact remains, Gurode did not improve the numbers of our starting tailback running behind him at all, in fact he got worse. You may cite Julius' weakness being runs up the middle, but that does not address the fact that there was NO improvement. Julius could still suck at running up the middle, Gurode (if superior, as you claim) should just make him suck less.

You can keep it up, and display yourself for what you are (over and over again) or you can let it go. That's up to you.

It was your contention that there was (direct quote)NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE in Gurode and Al Johnson PLAY because Julius Jones (if you still think Julius was our primary/starting RB after the season then you have issues) stats were similar in 2005 and 2006.

There is nothing you can say to justify the stupid point.......Al Johnson free agent itinerary pretty much justifies my point.

There is a discernable difference you just chose to ignore it to justify your opinion on Gurode.

I drew the analogy because Very many Cowboy fans have been drinking the Newman Kool-aid, but in reality he is not highly regarded around the league. Case in point Newman has stellar stats as far as defending passes, even better than some of the elite players liike Champ and Hall, but with the players and coaches accounting for 2/3 of the votes in the Pro Bowl he's not even good enough to sniff as an alternate.

The only ALL-PRO team I recall Newman making was Dr.Zs'.

How can most of our Football family (NFL and fans) totally miss out on Newman performance?

 

[riggo]

LOL at Shawn Springs.

i've been very impressed with springs since hes been here- and i'd have no problem saying so if that wasnt the case, esp given his recent refusal to take a pay cut and the fact that he couldnt stay healthy last year....but when hes on the field, hes been very good!

 

[superpunk]

It was your contention that there was (direct quote)NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE in Gurode and Al Johnson because Julius Jones (if you still think Julius was our primary/starting RB after the season then you have issues) stats were similar in 2005 and 2006.

There is nothing you can say to justify the stupid point.......Al Johnson free agent itinerary pretty much justifies my point.

There is a discernable difference you just chose to ignore it to justify your opinion on Gurode.

So we're going with hypocrisy, then?

Poor choice, but at least it's a choice.

You're right, I said that - once. It was a mistake - every other place where I issued a comparison I have quantified it with the running stats. You're a hypocrite, and an absolute petty fool, because you laugh off and discount one RBs production (the one who had the majority of the carries) while thumping the other's.

Not that anything else was expected.

 

[riggo]

Champ did not have a good year in 2005. While Newman had his best year.
The Pro Bowl means NOTHING.

very true. believe me, skins fans were watching that year.

as i recall, in single games he got burned for 2 TD's vs chad johnson, 3 vs jerry porter, and 2 vs eddie kennison. newman gave up zero TD's, i believe.

remember a year or 2 before when the skins had a lead vs dallas? ismail beat him deep late in the game to seal it.

i'll grant that what we see may not always be clear- as in, he may not have had the responsibility for that WR, but it sure as heck looked like it to me. to his credit, he's played better since (from what i've seen anyhow).

 

[Aikbach]

very true. believe me, skins fans were watching that year.

as i recall, in single games he got burned for 2 TD's vs chad johnson, 3 vs jerry porter, and 2 vs eddie kennison. newman gave up zero TD's, i believe.

remember a year or 2 before when the skins had a lead vs dallas? ismail beat him deep late in the game to seal it.

i'll grant that what we see may not always be clear- as in, he may not have had the responsibility for that WR, but it sure as heck looked like it to me. to his credit, he's played better since (from what i've seen anyhow).

Ismail capped off that valiant Cowboy comeback in 1999 amigo.

It was Snyder's first game as owner, Washington led 35-14 with 7 minutes left.

Troy Aikman decided to impersonate Roger Staubach and Dallas took it into OT.

3rd and 2 for Dallas at their own 29, playaction that the Skins bite hard on, problem was Emmitt had no ball and Troy did, fires a perfect rifle shot deep down the center of the field.

Rocket is all alone, sprints 30 some yards untouched for the game winner.

You can give Champ I minor break for being a highly hyped rookie in that contest.

 

[Rampage]

Hahaha. There are only 2 players in the NFL that have been unanimous AP All Pro selections in the past 2-3 seasons. LT and Champ Bailey.

The AP consists of local beat writers votes with significant input from GMs., coaches and players.

Players and coaches also contribute 2/3 of the votes for the Pro Bowl, they also have access to Newmans stats, but he's never been to Hawaii.

I like Newman. I'd only take 2 or 3 CBs in the NFL over Newman, but in reality Newman has never consistently played at an elite level. Folks around these parts like to highlight his positives, but totally ignore the negatives. For a player drafted 5th overall he lacks the game changing potential that every GM and organization looks for when selecting high in the draft.

Terence Newman has never played on a Champ Bailey level, but the rankings are still bogus. I have Newman in the 5-10 range.

you couldn't have said it better

 

[InmanRoshi]

The trouble is, most people don't do the foggiest bit of homework, so they really have no idea how many INT's the average elite CB makes in a typical season. They think the average shutdown CB gets 6-8 INT's in a season, which is completely ridiculous. Darrell Green didn't average 3 picks a season, yet I don't see how anyone with a semblance of football knowledge would say he wasn't an elite CB, and probably one of the 5 best to ever play his position despite the lack of "big plays". Another problem is most of the big name publications just sprinkle the magic "Pro Bowl" dust on a player on non-stat driven positions, like CB and OL, and it sticks until they retire.

Newman is a legitimate Top 5 CB, but the best thing about Newman is he's really not a liability in any area, and he doesn't need complimentary players for him to do his job ... unlike another "elite" player in our secondary.

 

[Aikbach]

The trouble is, most people don't do the foggiest bit of homework, so they really have no idea how many INT's the average elite CB makes in a typical season. They think the average shutdown CB gets 6-8 INT's in a season, which is completely ridiculous.

Newman is a legitimate Top 5 CB, but the best thing about Newman is he's really not a liability in any area, and he doesn't need complimentary players for him to do his job ... unlike another "elite" player in our secondary.

Deion was the only 'elite" that got credit for a games like that because he marketed himself as a character and namebrand and flashy alter-ego with endorsements and endzone dances.

Newman just quietly does most everything Deion could but then he goes and sits silently on the bench after doing his job and doing it well.

 

[TRUTH87]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles
Hahaha. There are only 2 players in the NFL that have been unanimous AP All Pro selections in the past 2-3 seasons. LT and Champ Bailey.

The AP consists of local beat writers votes with significant input from GMs., coaches and players.

Players and coaches also contribute 2/3 of the votes for the Pro Bowl, they also have access to Newmans stats, but he's never been to Hawaii.

I like Newman. I'd only take 2 or 3 CBs in the NFL over Newman, but in reality Newman has never consistently played at an elite level. Folks around these parts like to highlight his positives, but totally ignore the negatives. For a player drafted 5th overall he lacks the game changing potential that every GM and organization looks for when selecting high in the draft.

Terence Newman has never played on a Champ Bailey level, but the rankings are still bogus. I have Newman in the 5-10 range.


Bravo Charles. we aint complaning about him not beeing Number one..b/c we know that right now he aint! but 21?...cmon....gotta do better than that.

 

[Alexander]

It is obvious the list has not been updated in some time.

I don't know why everyone looks for even the faintest slight on any of our players, particularly Newman.

The last thing anyone should care about is the opinion of Scouts, Inc. It is a horrible entity that does nothing but misinform the clueless.

If you watch the games, you can trust your own evaluations better than theirs.

 

[Charles]

So we're going with hypocrisy, then?

Poor choice, but at least it's a choice.

I guess true if you say so

You're right, I said that - once. It was a mistake -

Welcome to the dark side. I knew I was right. I didn't need you, the $10 SB Gurode got or the lack of interest (Arizona = NFL purgatory) in Al Johnson in free agency to know it.:

every other place where I issued a comparison I have quantified it with the running stats.

I don't seem to remember questioning any other point other than the "No discernable difference" based on Julius Jones stats up the middle.....

Plus there aren't any stats that would make Gurode comparable to Al Johnson, bring us back to the point I made about Newman. he veru comparable in stats to Champ and Hall, but he's not an elite player........this is too easy.

You're a hypocrite, and an absolute petty fool, because you laugh off and discount one RBs production (the one who had the majority of the carries) while thumping the other's.

Not that anything else was expected.

:laugh1: That is exactly what you did. You chose "only" Julius Jones stats up the middle to make a point about Gurode and Al being similar ........now you're calling me hypocrite..... after I was the one who interjected Marion Barbers dominance and the improved pass protection when Gurode started.

Dude I give up. Do want to talk about Tony Curtis? He's Euro bound

 

[superpunk]

That is exactly what you did. You chose "only" Julius Jones stats up the middle to make a point about Gurode and Al being similar ........now you're calling me hypocrite..... after I was the one who interjected Marion Barbers dominance and the improved pass protection when Gurode started.

Dude I give up. Do want to talk about Tony Curtis? He's Euro bound

Not calling you a hypocrite, you are a hypocrite. I chose our starting tailback's stats, and you declared those crap, as Julius Jones wasn't good at running up the middle in the first place. If Gurode was really an improvement, he should have at least taken Julius from "suck" to not very good. I never discounted Barber's stats as irrelevent as you did to Julius'. Probably because I can handle rational thought. You can't understand it, and that's really not my problem, although it is pitiable.

You use Barber's strength as support for Gurode, and Julius' weakness to attempt to make his stats irrelevent in support of Gurode.

Barber averaged 5.2 yards per carry up the middle. 40% of his total yards came from rushing up the middle. I think most would agree that Barbers strenghts was hitting the hole hard, mixing it up, breaking tackles and bouncing to the outside as opposed to finding creases like Clinton Portis.
......
Julius Jones strenght has never been running up the middle, yet you feel compelled to use Julius Jones weakeness to knock Gurode's Pro Bowl season

Apparently you can have it both ways in chuckles' world....