Terrell Owens... First round HOF???

[Cowboy4ever]

I would be very surprised in Owens make the Hall at all and if he does, I do not think it will be on the first ballot.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No he will not be a 1st ballot HOF player IMO.

How many WRs have ever been elected in there first year of elligability?

Owens will have to win a championship or two and I don't know that he will do that.

In addition, the stats that he will be compared to are not those of players who are in already or even those coming up IMO.

Rec 1549, Yds 22895, Avg. 14.8, TDs 197. Those are the numbers that Owens will inevitably be compared to.

As of now for Owens:

Rec 801, Yds 11715, Avg. 14.6, TDs 114.

At that rate, Owens would have to play another 10 seasons or so averaging what he's average over his career to this point.

70+ catches, 1000 yards and 10 TDs per season. He's been in the league 11 seasons already. I don't see him playing another 10 seasons more.

JMO of course.

 

[tyke1doe]

Not a first-ballot HOF, but he'll eventually get in. He probably has three good years left - tops. Then he has to wait five years before he gets inducted.

That's eight years, which is enough time to distance himself from his bad reputation. He won't get in in the eight year, but maybe in the 11th year, he gets in.

He did have an impact on the game. And I would say his Super Bowl performance will speak volumes for his highlight resume.

 

[joseephuss]

No he will not be a 1st ballot HOF player IMO.

How many WRs have ever been elected in there first year of elligability?

Owens will have to win a championship or two and I don't know that he will do that.

In addition, the stats that he will be compared to are not those of players who are in already or even those coming up IMO.

Rec 1549, Yds 22895, Avg. 14.8, TDs 197. Those are the numbers that Owens will inevitably be compared to.

As of now for Owens:

Rec 801, Yds 11715, Avg. 14.6, TDs 114.

At that rate, Owens would have to play another 10 seasons or so averaging what he's average over his career to this point.

70+ catches, 1000 yards and 10 TDs per season. He's been in the league 11 seasons already. I don't see him playing another 10 seasons more.

JMO of course.

No one can compare to those numbers. If that what receivers are going to be held to, then no one will be a first ballot HOFer except for the guy that holds those record, Mr. Rice. I think that is a bit unreasonable. Irvin should have gone in his first year and so should Tim Brown and Cris Carter coming up. Rice was the best of the best of the best, but the HOF should be for the best of the best. If not it will be pretty empty.

For some reason, HOF voters don't like or respect wide receivers. After Steve Largent, they have been very hesitant to put any in.

I know one thing I am tired of hearing about is some say that so and so should not be in if Art Monk is not in. That is BS. I like Art Monk and think he is deserving of being in the Hall. I just think it is illogical to block others that are even more deserving because Monk is getting the shaft. Michael Irvin was better than Art Monk. Both are HOF caliber, but Mike was more impactful. Same with Rice compared to Irvin. Mike is in Jerry's shadow. The voters like to punish other as a way of making up for their past mistakes. It is a faulty system.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No one can compare to those numbers. If that what receivers are going to be held to, then no one will be a first ballot HOFer except for the guy that holds those record, Mr. Rice. I think that is a bit unreasonable. Irvin should have gone in his first year and so should Tim Brown and Cris Carter coming up. Rice was the best of the best of the best, but the HOF should be for the best of the best. If not it will be pretty empty.

For some reason, HOF voters don't like or respect wide receivers. After Steve Largent, they have been very hesitant to put any in.

I know one thing I am tired of hearing about is some say that so and so should not be in if Art Monk is not in. That is BS. I like Art Monk and think he is deserving of being in the Hall. I just think it is illogical to block others that are even more deserving because Monk is getting the shaft. Michael Irvin was better than Art Monk. Both are HOF caliber, but Mike was more impactful. Same with Rice compared to Irvin. Mike is in Jerry's shadow. The voters like to punish other as a way of making up for their past mistakes. It is a faulty system.

Your pressuming that all WRs will be held to Rice's standards. I do not believe that will be the case for all WRs but I do believe it will be the case for Owens. Right or wrong, that is what will happen IMO. I doubt that Owens will be linked to the Eagles as a player. Nor will he be linked to the Cowboys IMO. If he left this season and joined another team, I doubt he would be linked to that team either. He will be a 49er in the minds of most. Because of this and because of the way he has acted through out his career, this is his lot IMO. He will be compared to the great Jerry Rice. WRs don't typically get elected in there 1st years unless they are viewed as players who were the best at there positions historically. They have to be a cut above great. What can you look at about Owens and say that he did it better then anybody else ever? This is how the voters will justify not voting him in on the 1st ballot IMO. What's more, they will not be wrong IMO.

 

[riggo]

Keyshawn Johnson is a modern Art Monk. His game is not predicated on speed so he will play for a very long time. In that time his numbers will grow and grow leaving the perception that he was a prolific receiver when in actuality he is just like Art Monk, a number 2 receiver that D Coordinators would NEVER lose sleep over when gameplanning for a squad they play for.

Key will face the same problems as Monk when his day comes for hall nomination. The only thing separating the two WR's is that until playing in Dallas and Carolina Key was the best receiver on his teams.

i'm not sure i agree on your comparison of art vs key, but i do understand how you came to your conclusions- they both have alot of catches and are seen as 'move the chains' type of players. they have similar numbers in a side by side, year by year look at their careers.

however, i think you have to remember that monk is different in several aspects. first, monk put up his numbers in a less pass happy era. when monk had 106 receptions in 1984, the next closest WR- stallworth- had 80. when key had 106 in 2001, 3 other players had more. monk also put up impressive numbers with 2 other weapons at WR around him in clark and sanders for much of his career- a fact that seems to work against him, yet shouldnt. monk also had records. nothing against key, but he doesnt.

also, the common perception is that monk only has numbers due to longevity. clearly, you have to play a long time to get the all time receptions record, however, just look at the first 12 years of monks career. he still had more catches than any other WR in the hall, and more yards than almost all of them again, in a less pass happy era. so i would respectfully disagree that 'the only thing separating' them was that key was a clear #1 in NY and Tampa. key has far more hurdles to jump than monk in order to make it to the hall.

as for owens, i think he should be a first ballot HOFer, no question.

 

[joseephuss]

i'm not sure i agree on your comparison of art vs key, but i do understand how you came to your conclusions- they both have alot of catches and are seen as 'move the chains' type of players. they have similar numbers in a side by side, year by year look at their careers.

however, i think you have to remember that monk is different in several aspects. first, monk put up his numbers in a less pass happy era. when monk had 106 receptions in 1984, the next closest WR- stallworth- had 80. when key had 106 in 2001, 3 other players had more. monk also put up impressive numbers with 2 other weapons at WR around him in clark and sanders for much of his career- a fact that seems to work against him, yet shouldnt. monk also had records. nothing against key, but he doesnt.

also, the common perception is that monk only has numbers due to longevity. clearly, you have to play a long time to get the all time receptions record, however, just look at the first 12 years of monks career. he still had more catches than any other WR in the hall, and more yards than almost all of them again, in a less pass happy era. so i would respectfully disagree that 'the only thing separating' them was that key was a clear #1 in NY and Tampa. key has far more hurdles to jump than monk in order to make it to the hall.

as for owens, i think he should be a first ballot HOFer, no question.

I agree. Key is not close to Monk. Key is a compiler in a pass happy era. Monk would be even better playing today.

I thought I saw someone compare Art Monk to James Lofton the other day. I just started laughing. Their games were very different. Monk move the chains, but Lofton was a big play threat. He averaged 18.3 yards per catch for his career. That just amazes me every time I look at that stat. It is the highest average for all the receivers in the top 25 for receptions.

 

[joseephuss]

Your pressuming that all WRs will be held to Rice's standards. I do not believe that will be the case for all WRs but I do believe it will be the case for Owens. Right or wrong, that is what will happen IMO. I doubt that Owens will be linked to the Eagles as a player. Nor will he be linked to the Cowboys IMO. If he left this season and joined another team, I doubt he would be linked to that team either. He will be a 49er in the minds of most. Because of this and because of the way he has acted through out his career, this is his lot IMO. He will be compared to the great Jerry Rice. WRs don't typically get elected in there 1st years unless they are viewed as players who were the best at there positions historically. They have to be a cut above great. What can you look at about Owens and say that he did it better then anybody else ever? This is how the voters will justify not voting him in on the 1st ballot IMO. What's more, they will not be wrong IMO.

I don't agree. T.O. won't be the only one judged against Rice. That also won't be the only thing they look at when they judge T.O. It will probably take him 5 tries to get into the HOF unless he just puts himself at #2 in receptions, yards and TDs to Rice before he retires.

I can't say that T.O. did anything better than anyone else because Rice and others have done it all. Tim Brown didn't do anything better than the peers of his era, but he is deserving. T.O. is probably better than Timmy. Not a better team mate, which I do think does and should play a part. I also think you can't ignore T.O.'s production. The guy scores TDs.

 

[Hoofbite]

I could really care less. Don't really like or root for the guy as an individual so I could care less either way.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't agree. T.O. won't be the only one judged against Rice. That also won't be the only thing they look at when they judge T.O. It will probably take him 5 tries to get into the HOF unless he just puts himself at #2 in receptions, yards and TDs to Rice before he retires.

I can't say that T.O. did anything better than anyone else because Rice and others have done it all. Tim Brown didn't do anything better than the peers of his era, but he is deserving. T.O. is probably better than Timmy. Not a better team mate, which I do think does and should play a part. I also think you can't ignore T.O.'s production. The guy scores TDs.

I did not say he would be the only one. I said that, in TOs case, it's inevitable.

Just to be clear here, I did not say that TO would not make the HOF. I said he would not make it in his first year.

I suppose time will tell but I just don't see it.

 

[Da Hammer]

i dont think theres any doubt that Owens is a HOF now first ballot HOF well that will be tough... i would actually be shocked if he was just because the idiot voters factor in thingd like off the field and other thing when they arent supposed to. that obviously hurt Mike Irvin a lot...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

In the future, if you find me ONE person that used to not like T.O., but changes their mind, then I'll listen.

My friend... I used to NOT like TO... then I actually listened to ALL sides of the stories about him... started reading complete stories and interviews and things he said... not just the soundbytes and things taken out of context...

 

[DallasKnight]

I hope that freak never gets in. Ever. Send a message to the youngsters. DON'T ACT THIS WAY!!!

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

It is inaccurate to compare Owens with the WRs that are already in the HoF as those aren't the guys he will be compared with. He will be compare with his contemporaries: Rice, Irvin, Harrison, Holt, etc. The difference is that every one of those guys has a SB ring and Owens doesn't, plus he has NEVER made a team better with his presence.

Let me repeat that, Owens has never made a team better with his presence. He is a talented guy but he is not a good football player IMO.

Only a few WRs that are in the HoF are without championship rings. Off the top of my head I would say: Largent, Joiner, & Mitchell but Largent retired as the all-time leader and Joiner was in the top-3 when he retired. I believe Taylor was at or near the top when he retired as well.

Owens won't be anywhere near the top in stats compared with Rice, Tim Brown, Chris Carter, and Marvin Harrison.

The more I think about it the less I believe he will ever get in.

You say that TO didnt/doesnt make teams better.... THAT is funny.... we scored 100 more points than last year(directly and indirectly attributed in part to TO - I believe he helped the Eagles become a offensive deep threat(most TD's by an Eagles WR?) - with the 49ers, helped them beat the Packers and I believe Jeff Garcia was Pro Bowl QB a couple of years in a row throwing to Owens....

dont let facts get in the way though

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I hope that freak never gets in. Ever. Send a message to the youngsters. DON'T ACT THIS WAY!!!

Yeah... you are right... he should act like most of the Cincinatti Bengals and Tank Johnson from the Bears...

 

[sjordan6]

Well let see where Owens stacks up with pure numbers.

Over his 11 year career, here are his stats up to date and counting...

801 receptions
114 TD receptions
11,715 receiving yards

Here are the All-time leaders
Bold Still Active


All-time receptions
Jerry Rice 1549
Chris Carter 1102
Tim Brown 1094
Marvin Harrison 1022
Andre Reed 951
Art Monk 940
Issac Bruce 887
Terrell Owens 801


All-Time TD Reception
Jerry Rice 197
Chris Carter 130
Marvin Harrison 122
Terrell Owens 114
Randy Moss 101
Tim Brown 100
Steve Largent 100

All-Time Reception Yards
Jerry Rice 22,895
Tim Brown 14,934
James Lofton 14,004
Chris Carter 13,899
Marvin Harrison 13,697
Henry Ellard 13,777
Issac Bruce 13,379
Terrell Owens 11,715


Owens is probably two season away from being in the top five of all three. You make the call.

 

[WV Cowboy]

My friend... I used to NOT like TO... then I actually listened to ALL sides of the stories about him... started reading complete stories and interviews and things he said... not just the soundbytes and things taken out of context...

You are an open minded individual my friend. One of a kind as far as I can tell.

I was actually basing "not liking him" on right now though, after a year with the Cowboys. Those that don't like him now, probably won't change.

But still, you are a rare breed to be flexible enough to see Owens as he is, and not as the media or those that don't like him would want you to view him.

It's true, the guy is different, but he gets a bad rap from the pundits at every turn. Not that I wouldn't change some things about him if I could. But I just don't see him as this evil, satan, team-wrecker piece of crap as some do.

Viewing him through the eyes of a coach of 15 yrs myself, I kinda get a kick out of the guy, especially since he has been in Dallas.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I hope that freak never gets in. Ever. Send a message to the youngsters. DON'T ACT THIS WAY!!!

Problem is. It's the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the Pro Act Like this Hall of Fame.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I've added the years played for each. You can clearly see Owens is one of the all-time greats. If Owens matched Rice in years played, he would come close if not beating Rice in TDs. People say these other guys deserve to be in the HoF. Owens is clearly more dominate a receiver than people like Reed, Monk, Brown, and Carter. There are only two receivers that compare to Owens and thats Harrison and Rice. Owens has missed 18 games in his career, Harrison has only missed 6.

All-time receptions
Jerry Rice 1549 (21 Years)
Chris Carter 1102 (16 Years)
Tim Brown 1094 (17 Years)
Marvin Harrison 1022 (11 Years)
Andre Reed 951 (16 years)
Art Monk 940 (16 years)
Issac Bruce 887 (13 years)
Terrell Owens 801 (11 Years)


All-Time TD Reception
Jerry Rice 197 (21 Years)
Chris Carter 130 (16 Years)
Marvin Harrison 122 (11 Years)
Terrell Owens 114
Randy Moss 101
Tim Brown 100 (17 Years)
Steve Largent 100

All-Time Reception Yards
Jerry Rice 22,895 (21 Years)
Tim Brown 14,934 (17 Years)
James Lofton 14,004
Chris Carter 13,899 (16 Years)
Marvin Harrison 13,697 (11 Years)
Henry Ellard 13,777
Issac Bruce 13,379 (13 years)
Terrell Owens 11,715

 

[joseephuss]

You are an open minded individual my friend. One of a kind as far as I can tell.

I was actually basing "not liking him" on right now though, after a year with the Cowboys. Those that don't like him now, probably won't change.

But still, you are a rare breed to be flexible enough to see Owens as he is, and not as the media or those that don't like him would want you to view him.

It's true, the guy is different, but he gets a bad rap from the pundits at every turn. Not that I wouldn't change some things about him if I could. But I just don't see him as this evil, satan, team-wrecker piece of crap as some do.

Viewing him through the eyes of a coach of 15 yrs myself, I kinda get a kick out of the guy, especially since he has been in Dallas.

I agree. He has his problems that don't make him the best teammate, but the media also does all it can to demonize him. He is given too much credit for the good he does and he is also given too much blame for the bad he does. He wouldn't be near the top of my list of players to choose for a team, but you can't just ignore what he brings to the field.

There is no way he single handidly destroyed the 49ers. T.O. was a nusciance, but that team got old and in bad salary cap shape. T.O. had nothing to do with that.

The Eagles struggled in 2005 in part because of T.O.'s selfishness. They mainly struggled because of injuries to McNabb and to the defense. McNabb was never 100% healthy in 2005 due to his hernia.

The media makes it out to be that T.O. destroyed the team on his own. That is way too much credit for one single guy. I just don't think he is that influential. He wasn't with the Cowboys, both good and bad. He alone did not make the Cowboys score more points on offense and he alone was not the reason that the team slumped late in the season.