Thanking Rams, Eagles

[Denim Chicken]

DBs wont help this defense without a pass rush. We've seen this for how long now, and fans of this team just dont get it.

You're thinking short-term. IF there was a premier pass rusher available, I would agree to make the pick. BPA is the way to go. Lawrence and Gregory will eventually come back (hopefully) and we will add DEs. Crawford is healthy and Thornton was added--interior pressure cannot be discounted.

You are advocating to lose picks and trade up. Tell me how that helps us right away.

 

[fivetwos]

Says a Melvin who will be crying like a baby when the crippled QB can't play anymore. Whoever they draft at 4? They don't matter without the QB. Completely and totally irrelevant.

Here's the deal, Bathe in this truth while fantasy land is all around you. We have a triple whammy at play here and watch and see if I'm not right as rain.

1) We had a real opportunity to turn the abortion of the 2015 season it's an actual positive with the QB of the future. We've now lost that opportunity. Either the idiots who compose our front office don't believe there's a franchise QB in this draft or they just think it's too soon. Romo can play until it hurts to pee. Either way, I would trust your Mom's opinion on this over those two wastes of space. There is a very good chance we will all look back on this decision with serious regret.

2) Not taking the QB now leaves the Cowboys in familiar territory. Their safe space. Their binky. They will more than likely waste the 4th overall pick on a player who will provide zero impact on this team, CB Jalen Ramsey. Literally the least pay out you can drum up from 4-12 and the 4th pick in the draft. It will be a decision that's celebrated around the Romper Room, but will prove to be just as horrific as the Newman, Carr and Claiborne decisions. Irrelevant players. They win you nothing. They should never command a top of the draft selection or a mega FA deal.

3) Not taking the QB at 4 will also probably lead to another disastrous decision. Burning a pick quite possibly as high as 34, and a lot of time, on a complete bum athlete type QB that Wade Wilson can coach up in the decade and a half or whatever it is our lunatic of an owner has Romo pegged for. Hey, we're addressing QB. See? It's just kind of half ***ed. Did you meet Jalen yet?

Same old, same old. Tick tock. How old is he today? How old tomorrow? We're making progress.

In all fairness, it remains possible that they bring Lynch in here and without the pressure of having to play for a while, ends up being better than Goff and Wentz.

I wanted Wentz and I feel your pain, but there's no way to say that this will in no way end up working in our favor.

That said, I have little faith in the powers that be, and I don't see Jerry going out of his way to make Lynch a Cowboy.

I very much believe that Jerry's line of thinking will be that Garrett and Wilson can turn a project into a franchise QB, and that will be the approach.

Given the lack of quality QBs in the next couple of classes at least, I agree that if Goff, Wentz or Lynch isn't a Cowboy after this draft, there's Anthony Wright/Clint Stoerner/Chad Hutchinson type of pain on the horizon.

 

[Stash]

You realize there will be other drafts, right? If Philly made just a genius move by trading their future picks to move up, what is stopping us from doing that next year, or the year after that, or the year after that...

Namely draft position. Philly made their move from #8, and it still cost a fortune. Where do you see this team's draft position over the next few seasons if Romo plays even half the games?

And read the quotes from the Eagles as to why they made the trade. It involves the lack of quarterback prospects in the future. They made this move now because they feel that the future quarterback landscape looks worse, not better.

And unless the wheels fall off, the Cowboys won't be looking at another 4-12, #4 overall pick anytime soon.

 

[WillieBeamen]

You're thinking short-term. IF there was a premier pass rusher available, I would agree to make the pick. BPA is the way to go. Lawrence and Gregory will eventually come back (hopefully) and we will add DEs. Crawford is healthy and Thornton was added--interior pressure cannot be discounted.

You are advocating to lose picks and trade up. Tell me how that helps us right away.

Investing so much in DBs like we have is not a winning formula. Two first round picks in a row on DBs, paying Carr 10m a year, and trading up for Claiborne is not the way you want to build your defense. Our front 7 is weak and has multiple holes that need to be fixed, yet you are advocating another first round db? Add in the fact, that corner isnt Ramsey's best position, and you have a disaster in the making.

 

[gimmesix]

You aren't addressing QB with a later round pick. It's basically pure luck. Anyone thinking the wiser move to get a franchise QB is one in the later rounds is fooling themselves.

You can say you didn't want Wentz or Goff. That's fine. But acting like the wiser move to fix the QB situation is a third or fourth round guy is a pipe dream.

I don't think I said getting a third- or fourth-round pick to "fix the QB situation" is the wiser move. The chances of finding one after our 34th pick is not that high, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't take the chance.

Eventually, unless we luck out, we will have to draft Romo's replacement, and we'll probably have to do it in the first round. Maybe this year will even turn out to be that eventually ... and if it does, we'll be back at the top of the first round where we can get our guy, and possibly have a better selection to choose from.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Namely draft position. Philly made their move from #8, and it still cost a fortune. Where do you see this team's draft position over the next few seasons if Romo plays even half the games?

And read the quotes from the Eagles as to why they made the trade. It involves the lack of quarterback prospects in the future. They made this move now because they feel that the future quarterback landscape looks worse, not better.

And unless the wheels fall off, the Cowboys won't be looking at another 4-12, #4 overall pick anytime soon.

There will always be good prospects coming out. Maybe not every year, but I have to believe Wentz is not the best thing we'll see for a while (I'm not impressed by him). There is also FA. Garoppolo will be a FA in a year, there will be others. Denver showed us elite QB play is not required to win. The defense needs to be bolstered.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The fact that the QBs will go 1-2 doesn't absolve Dallas of any criticism. They had the option of moving up too. They were even in better position to do it.

It's alarming to see how our fans think. Most of these people deserve this team.

It doesn't, at least for me because I don't think they would have taken one, even if they were on the board. But I'm more than fine not giving up a future #1 for either QB, which likely would have been part of the cost even with us being closer. At this point I believe next year is going to be a train wreck, hopefully another QB emerges and we can be in position to take them.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Investing so much in DBs like we have is not a winning formula. Two first round picks in a row on DBs, paying Carr 10m a year, and trading up for Claiborne is not the way you want to build your defense. Our front 7 is weak and has multiple holes that need to be fixed, yet you are advocating another first round db? Add in the fact, that corner isnt Ramsey's best position, and you have a disaster in the making.

If the club doesn't think Ramsey is the BPA, then so be it. But I wouldn't pass on him just because of his position, especially when its a position that commands a lot of money in FA. Drafting Ramsey could free us up from Carr and provide the cap space to sign passrush in FA next year. Big picture.

 

[gimmesix]

No, you will hear that Dallas should have drafted a QB after Romo gets hurt this year. About five years from now and several QBs later, you will be saying they should have drafted a decent QB. The writing is on the wall. They will draft Dak and waste a couple years trying to make him into a decent QB after Tony retires. After 10-15 years of trying to get lucky at QB, they may hit luck. I don't want even one more season like this last season. I would rather see them trade around and land Lynch than draft a mid-round prospect that will be lucky to be a backup. They can wait until next year and spend tons of picks to get back in the position they was in this year. They will win just enough games to keep the top QB prospects out of reach until the team is forced into overpaying.

I'd expect to hear that Dallas should have drafted a QB if Romo gets hurt.

If he gets hurt, though, what makes you think Dallas won't be drafting at the top of the first again next year and take a QB then?

Some perceived notion that if Dallas drafts a QB like Dak that they'll waste a couple of years? That's really what this boils down to, isn't it? Fans believe unless a QB falls into Dallas' lap and they are forced to take one that the team isn't going to get it right.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Pfft! Yeah, Wade Wilson "coached up" Tony Romo!



What a joke!

You can't really have it both ways.

Wade has been the qb coach for 8 of Romo's 9 years as our starting quarterback.

A normal human being without an agenda would naturally credit him and JG for the development Romo has shown since 2007.

 

[Stash]

There will always be good prospects coming out.

Obviously NFL decision makers disagree with you. Your statement reads of short-sightedness with little long-term thinking.

Maybe not every year, but I have to believe Wentz is not the best thing we'll see for a while (I'm not impressed by him).

NFL teams are. Enough to give up two years' worth of draft picks.

There is also FA.

No there isn't. Franchise quarterbacks don't become free agents. Doesn't happen. Try again.

Garoppolo will be a FA in a year, there will be others.

Sure there will. More guys like Manziel and RG3. Dumpster diving. You operate there, you get garbage someone else doesn't want. Again, you show zero vision or awareness of what is happening in this league.

Denver showed us elite QB play is not required to win. The defense needs to be bolstered.

With that Hall of Fame quarterback at the helm? Sure they did. You can't see past the nose on your face.

 

[gimmesix]

And missed much worse on quarterbacks drafted later. But yeah, we'll 'just get one later'...

Drafting one later doesn't guarantee anything, but that isn't a reason to not draft one. I'm not sure where I indicated that Dallas is going to magically find a starter in the later rounds, but it is possible to stumble upon one ... so take the shot.

The day likely will come when the team has to pay a premium to replace Romo. The team likely will have to do something similar to what LA did or what Philly did, unless it lucks out. In the meantime, try your luck at finding the guy without paying that premium.

As I've put down before, there is a higher success rate with QBs taken in the 30s than QBs taken in the top five. I don't know if there's one worth taking in the 30s, but if there is, maybe that player proves to be better than either Wentz or Goff. Maybe a quarterback taken later on does.

We won't know unless we take a shot.

 

[Stash]

You can't really have it both ways.

Wade has been the qb coach for 8 of Romo's 9 years as our starting quarterback.

A normal human being without an agenda would naturally credit him and JG for the development Romo has shown since 2007.

A homer would credit him and JG for the development of Tony Romo, a guy who was the starter here before they arrived. If they knew anything about developing quarterbacks, this team wouldn't fail miserably every single time Romo wasn't there to save them. They have failed at each and every turn without him, but some people just want to blame all those other players while ignoring the constants in the equation that remain.

I don't need a thing 'both ways'. I see Wade Wilson for what he is. A lousy quarterbacks coach who has never developed anyone, who can't even coach backups to the level of competent to run an offense.

He's never accomplished anything anywhere he's ever been and was exiled during Parcells' entire tenure here. He inherited an already established starter, coached by much better coaches than he'll ever be, and has ridden that player's coat tails to a steady, undeserved paycheck.

Tony Romo was already a starter and has needed and gotten nothing from Wade Wilson.

 

[gimmesix]

Please tell me how adding a top DB at $6 mil per will not help our defense, while keeping in mind MO is a free agent next year and Carr is over-paid. Look how much Josh Norman is commanding! Look how much NY paid Jenkins.

Apparently, that's impossible.

Actually, I think it stems from the believe that Jerry won't do that. That he'll try to solve the QB issue with smoke and mirrors, like he did when Aikman retired, and we're doomed to never have a quality QB again unless we somehow luck into one.

The Quincy Carter fiasco apparently has left some deep wounds. So deep that fans can see past next Thursday when it comes to the QB position.

 

[Stash]

Drafting one later doesn't guarantee anything, but that isn't a reason to not draft one. I'm not sure where I indicated that Dallas is going to magically find a starter in the later rounds, but it is possible to stumble upon one ... so take the shot.

And that's how you make decisions at the hardest position to find in sports? You "stumble upon one". Did you think that through before you typed it?

The day likely will come when the team has to pay a premium to replace Romo. The team likely will have to do something similar to what LA did or what Philly did, unless it lucks out. In the meantime, try your luck at finding the guy without paying that premium.

"Luck", yet another great buzzword...

As I've put down before, there is a higher success rate with QBs taken in the 30s than QBs taken in the top five. I don't know if there's one worth taking in the 30s, but if there is, maybe that player proves to be better than either Wentz or Goff. Maybe a quarterback taken later on does.

You can "put it down" all you'd like, I see nothing in the form of facts or stats to support your claim. And if there's nothing to support it, it doesn't stand up.

We won't know unless we take a shot.

"Take a shot", you're on a roll with this awful 'plan'. I don't even need to poke holes in it, you do it yourself.

 

[Stash]

Apparently, that's impossible.

Actually, I think it stems from the believe that Jerry won't do that. That he'll try to solve the QB issue with smoke and mirrors, like he did when Aikman retired, and we're doomed to never have a quality QB again unless we somehow luck into one.

The Quincy Carter fiasco apparently has left some deep wounds. So deep that fans can see past next Thursday when it comes to the QB position.

I wouldn't talk about anyone else's lack of vision with the 'throwing darts' nonsense you're coming up with.

It's amazing that you'll talk about history and things that have actually happened and then ignorantly dismiss them and those that have actually learned from them.

 

[gimmesix]

And that's how you make decisions at the hardest position to find in sports? You "stumble upon one". Did you think that through before you typed it?



"Luck", yet another great buzzword...



You can "put it down" all you'd like, I see nothing in the form of facts or stats to support your claim. And if there's nothing to support it, it doesn't stand up.



"Take a shot", you're on a roll with this awful 'plan'. I don't even need to poke holes in it, you do it yourself.

You take a shot with any position after the first round, and even in the first round. Yes, Dallas should take a shot by drafting the best QB available at some point and seeing how it works out.

Did I say that it's going to work out to draft Cook in the second or Prescott in the third? I don't know that any more than I know if it would have worked out to draft Wentz or Goff in the first?

Past draft results show that just over 50 percent of the QBs taken in the top 5 picks work out ... so yes, you're taking a shot even then. Around 60 percent drafted in the 30s work out, so you're taking a shot then. The percentages after that continue to drop off, but that doesn't mean you can't find a QB in the third, fourth, etc. However, you won't know if you can if you don't draft one.

 

[LandryFan]

Iggles just bailed on Bradford, possibly fleeced themselves out of two Drafts and set back ala' RG3 Skins - to move up 6 spots. Eagles Nation is blithering, lol - today was a good day.

To see the eagles' trade up to #2 in its true light, you have to consider what they gave up to move from #13 (original slot) to #8, and then from #8 to #2. The Dolphins gave philly the 8th pick in exchange for #13, Byron freakin Maxwell, and Kiko Alonso. Are you kidding me??? The eagles were able to dump Maxwell's contract (6 yrs/63M, 25M GTD) and a less than healthy LB (Alonso) and move up 5 spots to boot. I have no earthly idea what the dolphins were thinking in that trade, but the eagles won that one. That would be akin to someone giving us 5 spots in the upper first round in exchange for Carr (and his contract) and a mediocre, injured player. I still think the eagles paid too much in picks to move up, but if you consider that they got there from #13, then they didn't do as badly as a lot of people are letting on.

 

[DogFace]

And that's how you make decisions at the hardest position to find in sports? You "stumble upon one". Did you think that through before you typed it?



"Luck", yet another great buzzword...



You can "put it down" all you'd like, I see nothing in the form of facts or stats to support your claim. And if there's nothing to support it, it doesn't stand up.



"Take a shot", you're on a roll with this awful 'plan'. I don't even need to poke holes in it, you do it yourself.

Can you provide the data that demonstrates that there is a consensus on how good these two, who we couldn't get anyway, are going to be.

I asked you in the last thread and you gave me a link to an interesting article about the fact that players drafted after the 3rd round don't do as well as players drafted in the first few. It also didn't mention how many bust in the top 5.

I didn't ask for that I wanted to know about the consensus on how good these two are. I've read and heard much to the contrary.

 

[Stash]

You take a shot with any position after the first round, and even in the first round. Yes, Dallas should take a shot by drafting the best QB available at some point and seeing how it works out.

Did I say that it's going to work out to draft Cook in the second or Prescott in the third? I don't know that any more than I know if it would have worked out to draft Wentz or Goff in the first?

Now it's "I don't know". It doesn't seem to stop you from making claims though, does it?

The well-established facts, researched by people who actually did the homework, show that the odds of finding a quarterback only get worse the longer a team waits. So you either give yourself a better chance of finding one taking him early, or a lesser chance the later you draft him. And that's it. The rest is opinion and noise.

Past draft results show that just over 50 percent of the QBs taken in the top 5 picks work out ... so yes, you're taking a shot even then. Around 60 percent drafted in the 30s work out, so you're taking a shot then. The percentages after that continue to drop off, but that doesn't mean you can't find a QB in the third, fourth, etc. However, you won't know if you can if you don't draft one.

Where's the research to back up these claims you're making? You're throwing around numbers with nothing supporting them.