That may go down as the worst 1-side ref hose job as there is

Status
Not open for further replies.

DogFace

Carharris2
Messages
13,587
Reaction score
16,087
I keep hearing about "evidence."

Do you mean the time stamps of plays where he's pointing out misses or bad calls? We can all agree those were missed or bad calls.

However, the logical conclusion based on those events IN NO WAY has to lead to league-wide conspiracy, ref bias, et cetera.

This is classic conspiracy theory rational: point to events, draw a conclusion, and work your way backwards to put together a theory.

You'd have to show specific evidence of the behind-the-scenes mechanics of how that works, paper trail, etc. Then the questions regarding the events on the field would have more credence.

Absent of that, when it's all boiled down you're left with "here's a bad play....conspiracy!"
Would you, at least, agree a bias by a ref against one of Sports most loved and hated sports teams would be hard to prove? It's just a thought backed up with several examples both for and against the Cowboys.

I'm sure it's possible there are some examples as bad as these. So show them them we can see we are biased and not seeing the game straight. Help us see clearly rather than the blanket critiques of these type of threads that you interject yourself into nearly every week.

Try to make your case.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
Typical cop out answer. Your whiney attempts to somehow seem above to fray are all measured responses.

Try to use some facts to back up your argument. Or continue complaining about the point of the facts while not disputing any of the specific instances pointed out clearly to you.

Lol, feel free to forward your "facts."
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I decided to look at each of the instances you point out and give my take on them. I pride myself in being objective as a newspaper editor, so here's what I've got.



Although I don't like the pick play, it is legal if it isn't clear that the receiver went out of his way to block. Crowder did not go out of his way to block as he appeared to only be releasing upfield on an inside route, but he did extend his arms into Jones. It probably should have been called because of that, but I think it's in a bit of a gray area. I've seen lesser ones called and worse ones not called.

Aikman called it a "natural pick." Because of Crowder extending his arms, I don't think it was quite as natural as it should have been, but I don't feel that it was blatant either.



Scandrick grabbed Garcon and prevented him from coming back for the ball. I think you have to call that one.



Breeland grabbed Butler's arms. Butler pushed Breeland away. I agree that this should have been called pass interference, but this is one of those cases I've mentioned where I think officials are calling it less when there is pushing done by each player.

If officials were consistently calling this pass interference this year and didn't call this one, I'd feel differently, but I've seen our guys and other teams' guys consistently get away with this.

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been called because Breeland impeded Butler, but it fits the type of contact officials have been ignoring the past couple of years.



Reed ran a route straight up the field and turned for the ball in Lee's path. Yes, it was a pick, but there was nothing illegal about it. He did not turn and block Lee. He did not veer into Lee. He simply got to a space ahead of Lee and occupied it.



Had trouble finding this play because it actually happened near the 14-minute mark, if this is the same play. After Dez caught the ball, Norman kind of took a strange kick-poke at it with his foot with Dez on the ground. It wasn't an overt move and it wasn't like he stomped on his hand, so I can't see any reason for a penalty to be called.



The ball was snapped right after the play clock struck zero. It was pretty close.



Probably the worst blown call of the game. Breeland not only grabbed the mask, but pulled Beasley by it, then slapped him in the head for good measure. I love how Breeland looked around clearly expecting the flag that should have been thrown.



It probably was a hold because Crawford was past Moses and Moses had his arm around him, but Crawford was not impeded much by it. I don't think that one's going to be called often simply because it didn't seem to affect the play. If Moses had jerked Crawford back, then it would have deserved to be called.



Agree completely. Davis had beaten the left tackle who wrapped an arm around his neck to keep him from getting to Cousins. If they are going to call Smith for a similar move, they needed to call this one.



Also agree completely on this one. Crawford was completely past Moses and headed toward Cousins when he was jerked back, looked like by the collar, and stopped. This one should not have been missed because it was so obvious.



Yes, I can't understand how you don't call a personal foul or unsportsmanlike conduct on this one. The play was clearly over, Bryant was down and Norman treats his leg like a rag doll. Maybe the officials just considered it his reaction to getting beat, but that's not a good excuse.

12) 7:24 left in the 4th quarter, EE's TD run is negated by a bogus holding call on Mayle. What's even worse is 4 referees called the hold on Mayle, I guess not understanding that pancake blocks are not holds.

I'm not sure why our fans don't see that as a hold. Mayle was pulling on Whitner's shoulder pads as Whitner was trying to pull away and make the tackle. Every official saw that and it affected the play.

Is the argument that Mayle had the inside of the shoulder pads instead of outside? He was clearly tugging and impeding and was not doing it with just his blocking. Four flags flew for this because it was obvious.



The officials overinterpreted this rule, adding in an element where the defender had to "slam the player into the ground on his head." By rule, it should have been a penalty, as Mike Pereira said, because he lifted and slammed Dunbar.



Baker clearly jumped the snap and should have been flagged for it.

So I've got six to eight that either should have been called or called differently.

Please understand that I did not do this with the intent of contradicting you, but only to try to give my assessment of the plays that you pointed out. I do think the Commanders benefited more in this game than Dallas from blown calls, but it was not be a vast amount as shown by some of the calls (around five) I mentioned earlier that Washington did not get.

That's how it's done, gimme. Great post that took a lot of time.

I'm on a mobile right now, but I'll try to find a gif of Norman's attempt to step on Dez' hand. It wasn't something you'd expect a ref to see necessarily given that it happened after the play, but it was pretty obvious. In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't more of a story given all the back and forth between these two guys.
 
Last edited:

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
Would you, at least, agree a bias by a ref against one of Sports most loved and hated sports teams would be hard to prove? It's just a thought backed up with several examples both for and against the Cowboys.

I'm sure it's possible there are some examples as bad as these. So show them them we can see we are biased and not seeing the game straight. Help us see clearly rather than the blanket critiques of these type of threads that you interject yourself into nearly every week.

Try to make your case.

Sheer brilliance.

So, on the one hand you state "bias by a ref against one of Sports most loved and hated sports teams would be hard to prove," but then you turn around and want me to show you examples of other teams "as bad as these."

You've missed the point. I don't believe there is systemic bias with the league's referring crews to do-in the Cowboys or any other team. I believe there is rampant poor officiating and fans of every team myopically think it's just against them.

If you want other meaningless examples from other fanbases of their own paranoia, I suggest you simply do a Google search: "referee bias against the Steelers...referee bias against the Patriots....referee bias against the Raiders...et cetera" and read what you get. But let me guess, those folks are all crazies...only the Cowboy fans have the true right to lament.

Here's a few examples:
Sunday Night's Referee Crew Proves Goodell/League's Bias Against Patriots
http://www.12up.com/posts/3737281-s...proves-goodell-league-s-bias-against-patriots

The Raiders Got Screwed by the Referees

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/...ts-holding-call-touchdown-screwed-by-referees

Officiating Bias Against Bengals Never Ends
http://www.inquisitr.com/2915497/officiating-bias-against-bengals-never-ends/
 
Last edited:

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
That's how it's done, gimme. Great post that took a lot of time.

I'm on a mobile right now, but I'll try to find a gif of Norman's attempt to step on Dez' hand. It wasn't something you'd expect a ref to see necessarily given that it happened after the play, but it was pretty obvious. In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't more of a story given all the back and forth between these two guys.

The fact you can't discern what credible evidence is versus trying to pass off an interpretation of an event as the evidence speaks to your aptitude.

You're stuck. I can't help you.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
As predicted, more mindless blather. Now you're hanging your hat on the intent of this thread supposedly being meant to address the clear referring bias/collusion to do-in the Cowboys for this game.

Brilliant.

And the irony of the most useless and intellectually dishonest member on this board calling me out, lol.

I guess I should be offended, but the comedic value is too rich; you're only working with the tools you've got.

[Quick, I hear fuzzy getting beat up on another thread....put on your cape!]

The proof is in the thread here CalPoly. I wasn't trying to offend you. Just think you're capable of raising the very low bar you set. It's not that you can't make an argument when pressed to. You just sometimes won't.

I can assure you, the unearned swagger doesn't do you favors. You're better off backing up a strong opinion than you are pretending you didn't misread the OP and hoping nobody notices.

gimme and YR run circles around you without even trying. You don't have the clout to call a poster like Fuzzy out, either, though it's not relevant to the current thread.

In any event, this is a good thread, and I'm going to let it stay that way. Have a nice rest of your day.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
The proof is in the thread here CalPoly. I wasn't trying to offend you. Just think you're capable of raising the very low bar you set. It's not that you can't make an argument when pressed to. You just sometimes won't.

I can assure you, the unearned swagger doesn't do you favors. You're better off backing up a strong opinion than you are pretending you didn't misread the OP and hoping nobody notices.

gimme and YR run circles around you without even trying. You don't have the clout to call a poster like Fuzzy out, either, though it's not relevant to the current thread.

In any event, this is a good thread, and I'm going to let it stay that way. Have a nice rest of your day.

Oh, no offense. I know you're limited so I'm not offended.

As predicted, more mindless pointing and posturing with no understanding from you. I get it. You don't like me and I think you're functionally useless.

Nevertheless, the fact you can't discern what credible evidence is versus trying to pass off an interpretation of an event as the evidence speaks to your aptitude not mine.

If you can't comprehend or appreciate sound debate, valid lines of reasoning and what an actual credible argument is, then quite frankly you're left where you are....stuck. And stuck you'll remain.
 
Last edited:

Outlaw Heroes

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
6,609
The proof is in the thread here CalPoly. I wasn't trying to offend you. Just think you're capable of raising the very low bar you set. It's not that you can't make an argument when pressed to. You just sometimes won't.

I can assure you, the unearned swagger doesn't do you favors. You're better off backing up a strong opinion than you are pretending you didn't misread the OP and hoping nobody notices.

gimme and YR run circles around you without even trying. You don't have the clout to call a poster like Fuzzy out, either, though it's not relevant to the current thread.

In any event, this is a good thread, and I'm going to let it stay that way. Have a nice rest of your day.

Here's the problem for you CalPoly. You're publicly questioning the intelligence of a guy who consistently contributes smart, classy posts like this one. Whatever else you might think of the guy, Idgit is quite clearly not working with an inferior set of tools. And that's gonna cause others to question your set of tools. Which is a shame. Because you otherwise do come off as an obviously bright guy.

On a related note, the arguments you made in this thread were strong, once you got around to them, CalPoly. I do wonder, however, if those you addressed as mindless sheep before getting around to the arguments experienced interference in receiving those arguments.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
Here's the problem for you CalPoly. You're publicly questioning the intelligence of a guy who consistently contributes smart, classy posts like this one. Whatever else you might think of the guy, Idgit is quite clearly not working with an inferior set of tools. And that's gonna cause others to question your set of tools. Which is a shame. Because you otherwise do come off as an obviously bright guy.

If you're impressed by him so be it. I think he's a bag of rocks. I'd have to disconnect my brain to find any appreciation for him. Far worse though than any indictment on his IQ would be the fact he's chronically intellectually dishonest which in my book makes one utterly worthless.

On a related note, the arguments you made in this thread were strong, once you got around to them, CalPoly. I do wonder, however, if those you addressed as mindless sheep before getting around to the arguments experienced interference in receiving those arguments.

Fair enough. But I'm not quite sure I need the love, adoration or respect of those prone to believing such theories. I doubt practicing astronomers are concerned with the feelings of flat-Earth believers.
 
Last edited:

links18

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,322
Reaction score
20,087
Although, "sometimes I wonder" is simply that. Someone throwing an idea out there. He is not convinced in any way. It only is meant to mean that sometimes he considers it while wondering about how a human could misinterpret what is going on directly in front of them. It is puzzling to astute fans and you're doing nothing to dispell the examples. Only attacking with the conspiracy stupid lunatic accusations. Or so you implied.

Keep reading. Two others have since chimed in with the idea that the league intentionally uses the officials to "keep games close." Come on, you know that element is alive and well around here.
 

Outlaw Heroes

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
6,609
Fair enough. But I'm not quite sure I need the love, adoration or respect of those prone to believing such theories.

Maybe not. But you're clearly bothered that they believe such theories. You'd prefer it be otherwise. So you should maximize your chances of getting your argument through. There is ar least a subset of that group that might find your arguments compelling if they aren't struggling against an understandable bias against accepting anything from a guy who just called them a mindless sheep.
 

drawandstrike

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
5,216
That's how it's done, gimme. Great post that took a lot of time.

I'm on a mobile right now, but I'll try to find a gif of Norman's attempt to step on Dez' hand. It wasn't something you'd expect a ref to see necessarily given that it happened after the play, but it was pretty obvious. In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't more of a story given all the back and forth between these two guys.

I made a video and put it up on mah Youtube channel:



BTW, isn't it awesome how Dez has matured? He knows exactly what Norman just tried to do, attempting to rake his hands with his cleats and he just laughs it off and tosses the ball to the referee and walks away.

Even when Norman tried the ankle twist, he says a few words but doesn't give Norman the retaliation he's hoping for.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
Although I don't like the pick play, it is legal if it isn't clear that the receiver went out of his way to block. Crowder did not go out of his way to block as he appeared to only be releasing upfield on an inside route, but he did extend his arms into Jones. It probably should have been called because of that, but I think it's in a bit of a gray area. I've seen lesser ones called and worse ones not called.

Aikman called it a "natural pick." Because of Crowder extending his arms, I don't think it was quite as natural as it should have been, but I don't feel that it was blatant either.

This was egregious. Crowder extended his arms in an outright shove. He had no intention of running a route as that was how the play was designed and why Cousins' only look was at Reed.

Reed ran a route straight up the field and turned for the ball in Lee's path. Yes, it was a pick, but there was nothing illegal about it. He did not turn and block Lee. He did not veer into Lee. He simply got to a space ahead of Lee and occupied it.

Reed ran up the field stopped, pivoted, but stuck his foot out in an unnatural way, much like 'boxing out' in basketball, but the foot sticking out was clearly not a natural way to run a route.

Had trouble finding this play because it actually happened near the 14-minute mark, if this is the same play. After Dez caught the ball, Norman kind of took a strange kick-poke at it with his foot with Dez on the ground. It wasn't an overt move and it wasn't like he stomped on his hand, so I can't see any reason for a penalty to be called.

Dez caught the ball and was down, Norman then stuck his foot out towards Dez's hand and then re-adjusted his foot to press down on Dez's hand. The entire movement was so unnatural that it was easy to see what Norman was doing unless he's got a new foot tackling method that we don't know about.

The ball was snapped right after the play clock struck zero. It was pretty close.

It was at 0. If they continued to roll the playclock, it probably goes to -1 by the time it's snapped. Even Joe Buck questioned why there was no delay of game. You're either at 0 on the playclock or you're not.





YR
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
84,007
Reaction score
76,707
Can the other fans back to their claims with facts? Egregious tackle holds and face masks? One hold the last two games for the other team seems a little off.
Show some examples so we all feel better. @Yakuza Rich gave several examples that are very hard to dispute. Make your case and try it.


I'm sure Deadskins fans can go show video evidence of this offensive line getting away with some holding calls as well as a few offensive pass interference's miss calls. I'm more shocked fans think that refs aren't human and won't miss calls yet in their everyday lives they make mistakes and want to be allowed to make those mistakes.
 

CalPolyTechnique

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,679
Reaction score
44,605
I'm sure Deadskins fans can go show video evidence of this offensive line getting away with some holding calls as well as a few offensive pass interference's miss calls. I'm more shocked fans think that refs aren't human and won't miss calls yet in their everyday lives they make mistakes and want to be allowed to make those mistakes.

All of these articles give their own version of "evidence" why the league/referees are screwing their teams, lol.

Sunday Night's Referee Crew Proves Goodell/League's Bias Against Patriots
http://www.12up.com/posts/3737281-s...proves-goodell-league-s-bias-against-patriots

The Raiders Got Screwed by the Referees

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/...ts-holding-call-touchdown-screwed-by-referees

Officiating Bias Against Bengals Never Ends
http://www.inquisitr.com/2915497/officiating-bias-against-bengals-never-ends/
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I'm sure Deadskins fans can go show video evidence of this offensive line getting away with some holding calls as well as a few offensive pass interference's miss calls. I'm more shocked fans think that refs aren't human and won't miss calls yet in their everyday lives they make mistakes and want to be allowed to make those mistakes.

It'd make for an interesting conversation if they did, right? I don't think the point is to say every call was one-sided. OP just identified a few he thought were.

I do think it's possible refs have instructions to call games or interpret rules in ways that keep them more interesting. That can work for or against you depending how the early drives go. That's sort of how I felt on Thursday with Dallas. A couple of those early calls go our way and that game is over by halftime.

I also think the refs not calling the grabbing and extra curriculars from Norman early led to him ratcheting up the bs and that situation almost getting out of hand. Dez did a good job handling that stuff, for the most part. And Dak's comments on the kerfluffle after the game were priceless.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I made a video and put it up on mah Youtube channel:



BTW, isn't it awesome how Dez has matured? He knows exactly what Norman just tried to do, attempting to rake his hands with his cleats and he just laughs it off and tosses the ball to the referee and walks away.

Even when Norman tried the ankle twist, he says a few words but doesn't give Norman the retaliation he's hoping for.


I was secretly hoping someone would post it for me :)

Look at him just looking at the ref after he rakes the hands with his cleats. That's pretty obviously deliberate.
 

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
40,008
Reaction score
37,150
This was egregious. Crowder extended his arms in an outright shove. He had no intention of running a route as that was how the play was designed and why Cousins' only look was at Reed.

Yes, he extended his arms. That would be the only reason to call it an illegal pick. I found it funny how he then threw his arms in the air like he didn't do anything. As I said, it was a call that I've seen go either way.

He ran an inside route against the corner. The intent of the route doesn't matter. It was still ran as a route. He did not throw himself at the defender or veer out of the "route" to block the defender. The only thing he did wrong was use his arms to shove Jones when they made contact. That was the penalty, but it's not one that's always called.


Reed ran up the field stopped, pivoted, but stuck his foot out in an unnatural way, much like 'boxing out' in basketball, but the foot sticking out was clearly not a natural way to run a route.

Reed ran upfield, pivoted and spread out as if he was getting ready to catch the ball. I don't think you'll ever see that get called an illegal pick.


Dez caught the ball and was down, Norman then stuck his foot out towards Dez's hand and then re-adjusted his foot to press down on Dez's hand. The entire movement was so unnatural that it was easy to see what Norman was doing unless he's got a new foot tackling method that we don't know about.

It doesn't look to me like he pressed down on Dez's hand. It looked like he stepped in closely as if to try to intimidate Dez, maybe trying to kick the ball in the process, which is the awkward movement. I saw no indication of him trying to stomp on Dez's hand.

It seems to me that some are looking at that play as if Norman had intent to hurt Dez. I just can't see that. He's a punk and he was acting like a punk. If he had intended to try to injury Dez, surely he would have made a better attempt.

It was at 0. If they continued to roll the playclock, it probably goes to -1 by the time it's snapped. Even Joe Buck questioned why there was no delay of game. You're either at 0 on the playclock or you're not.

I agree that zero had struck right before the ball was snapped.
 

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
40,008
Reaction score
37,150
I was secretly hoping someone would post it for me :)

Look at him just looking at the ref after he rakes the hands with his cleats. That's pretty obviously deliberate.

I respect that you and Yakuza believe that, but I don't agree. I think he deliberately tried to poke the ball with his foot and that he deliberately tried to stand over Dez.
 

Outlaw Heroes

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
6,609
I respect that you and Yakuza believe that, but I don't agree. I think he deliberately tried to poke the ball with his foot and that he deliberately tried to stand over Dez.

If a guy deliberately tries to poke the ball with his foot when the ball carrier is down and the play is over he should surely be held accountable for the rake of the ball carrier's hand, even if that consequence was not strictly intended, no?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top