That may go down as the worst 1-side ref hose job as there is

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CalPolyTechnique

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This was a thread about one game, from one refereeing crew. It wasn't a thread about league-wide conspiracy.

If you're going to wander in, crying "sheeple" and condescending to the argument without even bothering to support yourself, the least you could do is read the OP for context.

I know you've reached capacity and you're just blindly responding to each of my posts with mindless responses, but I did address the "evidence" of the OP's post in my comments. Try to stretch yourself just a little bit more, read and comprehend.
 

Outlaw Heroes

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I keep hearing about "evidence."

Do you mean the time stamps of plays where he's pointing out misses or bad calls? We can all agree those were missed or bad calls.

However, the logical conclusion based on those events IN NO WAY has to lead to league-wide conspiracy, ref bias, et cetera.

This is classic conspiracy theory rational: point to events, draw a conclusion, and work your way backwards to put together a theory.

You'd have to show specific evidence of the behind-the-scenes mechanics of how that works, paper trail, etc. Then the questions regarding the events on the field would have more credence.

Absent of that, when it's all boiled down you're left with "here's a bad play....conspiracy!"

I think it's fair and reasonable for you to insist on that kind of evidence before concluding corruption.

I also think it's reasonable (without thereby being necessarily accurate) to conclude there is corruption on far less evidence. It becomes difficult sometimes to chalk up a litany of missed calls to human error. Particularly if the misses seem largely one-sided.

There's a range of reasonableness here. You just happen to occupy an extreme end of that range making it difficult for you to see the other end of that range.
 

the_h0wey

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The Cowboys were playing against the Skins and the refs as I re-watch the game.

1) 3rd and 6, 7:32 left in 1st quarter, WAS ball. Crowder gets away with blatant offensive PI. Shoves Byron back a couple of yards before the ball is ever released as Cousins had to roll out to avoid pressure. Reed is wide open and gets the first down.

2) Next play they call a hold on Scandrick that was iffy at best.

3) 3rd and 15, 3:30 to go in first quarter, miss a bad defensive PI on Breeland to Butler that would have gained the offense 27 yards.

4) :06 left in first quarter, Reed sets another illegal pic which allows Vernon Davis to get wide open and pick up 22 yards.

5) 11:59 in second quarter. Dez catches a pass on Norman and Norman proceeds to step on Bryant's hand. The ref is looking right at Norman, about 3-yards away from him.

6) 4:50 left in 2nd quarter. Playclock was at 0 when the ball was snapped.

7) 3:44 left in 2nd quarter, Dak beautifully bootlegs and throws to Beasley who is again, clear as day, face masked by Breeland.

8) 1:31 left in 2nd quarter, T. Crawford beats Morgan Moses badly and holds him to prevent the sack.

9) 1:04 left in 2nd quarter, Ryan Davis beats the LT and is put in a sleeper hold with no call.

10) 4:58 left in 3rd quarter. T. Crawford beats Morgan Moses and Moses tackles him from behind to the ground.

11) 11:39 left in 4th quarter. Norman gets beat by Dez and twists his ankle after the play was dead.

12) 7:24 left in the 4th quarter, EE's TD run is negated by a bogus holding call on Mayle. What's even worse is 4 referees called the hold on Mayle, I guess not understanding that pancake blocks are not holds.

13) 7:12 left in 4th quarter. Personally I don't think this should be a penalty, but the rule book states pretty clearly and Mason Foster picked up Dunbar and slammed him to the ground.

14) 6:30 left in 4th quarter, looks like Baker (I think it was him) is well offsides. Didn't matter because EE ran for a TD anyway.

Only #2 I would say was a judgment call. The rest were very obvious and that doesn't include Jackson slapping Anthony Brown and the other Josh Norman shenanigans.

It also showed that the defense pressure wasn't as bad as originally thought. If those holding calls are called that changes the complexion of the game. The same as #1, Crowder's blantant offensive PI.

I won't mistake this defense for being good, but I don't know how the refs could miss those holding calls as they were clear as day to see.





YR

I'm not one to complain about officiating, but you are 100% correct. There was an abundance of head scratchers on Thursday. Kind of felt like they were trying to keep things close. It really didn't seem like a single call went our way
 

DrunkWithPower

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I agree with YR that the refs missed a ton of calls, most of which were quite evident to someone watching the game on television. My wife is a Commanders fans (we are a house divided) and she thought the refs were terrible as well. I saw blown calls on both sides, but I think the Cowboys were on the receiving end of most of the "obvious" calls that were missed. I mean some of them were right in front of the refs and players helmets are being twisted behind their heads. The worst was the unsportsmanlike call on the Commanders for spiking an opposing player to the ground. Might as well throw the rule book out for this ref team.
 

Little Jr

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Sure there are always missed calls. I don't think that's what these threads are about. They are about the overly blatant calls that make you wonder how they are missed. Op mentioned several with the times posted to let you argue them. Instead of disputing them you say what we all know--bad calls both ways. Maybe show some as egregious to make your point. Some that are hard to argue like have been provided for you.
The OP was about it was one sides and it wasn't. Someone mentioned some calls on them that wasn't called. Im not going back and watch the game to list all of them lol. Sounds fun though lol.
 

links18

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I think the league just has officials orchestrate the games the best they can so that they stay close.

I see these types of calls in every game and it usually goes against the team that is ahead.

OK, how would such a conspiracy work? Are they radioing in calls on the headsets? Are all the refs in on it or just some? If its just some, what happens when the clean refs disagree with the dirty refs? Why hasn't a retired ref come out and exposed this conspiracy? Are they afraid for their life?

No one can rule out the possibility of individual crooked refs, but to pose that games are some how "orchestrated" is pushing it towards absurdity.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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I think it's fair and reasonable for you to insist on that kind of evidence before concluding corruption.

I also think it's reasonable (without thereby being necessarily accurate) to conclude there is corruption on far less evidence. It becomes difficult sometimes to chalk up a litany of missed calls to human error. Particularly if the misses seem largely one-sided.

There's a range of reasonableness here. You just happen to occupy an extreme end of that range making it difficult for you to see the other end of that range.

For me, the axiom that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is principle. Insinuating or outright claiming there's league-wide bias, conspiracy, collusion to "keep games close," et cetera is/are extraordinary claims. A fundamental mistake I see folks making is thinking simply pointing to an event somehow equates to "evidence." It's not. They've mistaken their interpretation of that event as the evidence.

"I also think it's reasonable (without thereby being necessarily accurate) to conclude there is corruption on far less evidence."

A conclusion has no obligation to be either reasonable nor accurate.
 

Little Jr

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Ummmm you probably never seen a Patriots or a Pittsburg game before. So I tend to disagree with you.

I didn't see one call that favored the Cowboys in the Skins game. However, there were many missed calls and blatant fouls that weren't called against the Boys.

Say what you must about the refs. Ratings are down because of them. That says alot about why I believe something needs to be done to improve it.
I agree The ratings are down partly because of the refs. What I don't agree with us it was one sided against us. I have watched many pats and Steelers games. Funny thing is they think the calls go against them lol. I have 2 friends who are pat fans and several Steeler Fans. They complain constantly that calls go against them. They say the nfl is out to get them. Lol sound familiar? Again, I agree the refs are bad and I agree at times it comes in favor of one team. What I don't agree with it was one sided in the skins game. I also dont agree with some here that the nfl is behind it. I havent seen it in this thread but I have seen people say Mara and Goodell are some how trying to screw the Cowboys. That's just laughable.
 

CATCH17

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OK, how would such a conspiracy work? Are they radioing in calls on the headsets? Are all the refs in on it or just some? If its just some, what happens when the clean refs disagree with the dirty refs? Why hasn't a retired ref come out and exposed this conspiracy? Are they afraid for their life?

No one can rule out the possibility of individual crooked refs, but to pose that games are some how "orchestrated" is pushing it towards absurdity.


Simple... When a team has a lead and a WR gets mugged you don't call it or you see something that could be interpreted as a hold you call it.

These refs have several tools available to insure the games stay close.
 

links18

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Simple... When a team has a lead and a WR gets mugged you don't call it or you see something that could be interpreted as a hold you call it.

These refs have several tools available to insure the games stay close.

Man, that Buffalo Wild Wings commercial was not good for the image of the league's integrity.
 

LocimusPrime

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Having interviewed an official years ago, the league does go through a similar process other than it being publicly addressed, which I don't think the league would see as being to its benefit.

The league has a crew that puts together each missed call and sends it to the officiating crews so that they can review them. It also has a point system it uses to punish crews for missing calls. Now, this may have changed under Blandino.

That the league is more meticulous than many think about identifying missed calls is one reason I truly believe that officials have been told to be very judicious about contact between defensive backs and receivers. I believe having seen the backlash to the incessant illegal contact calls a few years back that the officials have been instructed to only call pass interference, holding, etc., when it "judges" that a there's a clear impediment. If there's a lot of handfighting between the defender and receiver, like on the noncall for Butler, I believe officials have been instructed to let it go.

Now, the only thing that bugs me about that is the inconsistency because sometimes they let it go and sometimes they don't. More often than not this year, though, they've been letting it go.
Good stuff bro, thanks!
 

Little Jr

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Obama wasn't behind Sandy hook. Bush wasn't behind 9-11 and the nfl isn't trying to rig games lol. Conspiracy theorist are funny people.
 

gimmesix

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I decided to look at each of the instances you point out and give my take on them. I pride myself in being objective as a newspaper editor, so here's what I've got.

1) 3rd and 6, 7:32 left in 1st quarter, WAS ball. Crowder gets away with blatant offensive PI. Shoves Byron back a couple of yards before the ball is ever released as Cousins had to roll out to avoid pressure. Reed is wide open and gets the first down.

Although I don't like the pick play, it is legal if it isn't clear that the receiver went out of his way to block. Crowder did not go out of his way to block as he appeared to only be releasing upfield on an inside route, but he did extend his arms into Jones. It probably should have been called because of that, but I think it's in a bit of a gray area. I've seen lesser ones called and worse ones not called.

Aikman called it a "natural pick." Because of Crowder extending his arms, I don't think it was quite as natural as it should have been, but I don't feel that it was blatant either.

2) Next play they call a hold on Scandrick that was iffy at best.

Scandrick grabbed Garcon and prevented him from coming back for the ball. I think you have to call that one.

3) 3rd and 15, 3:30 to go in first quarter, miss a bad defensive PI on Breeland to Butler that would have gained the offense 27 yards.

Breeland grabbed Butler's arms. Butler pushed Breeland away. I agree that this should have been called pass interference, but this is one of those cases I've mentioned where I think officials are calling it less when there is pushing done by each player.

If officials were consistently calling this pass interference this year and didn't call this one, I'd feel differently, but I've seen our guys and other teams' guys consistently get away with this.

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been called because Breeland impeded Butler, but it fits the type of contact officials have been ignoring the past couple of years.

4) :06 left in first quarter, Reed sets another illegal pic which allows Vernon Davis to get wide open and pick up 22 yards.

Reed ran a route straight up the field and turned for the ball in Lee's path. Yes, it was a pick, but there was nothing illegal about it. He did not turn and block Lee. He did not veer into Lee. He simply got to a space ahead of Lee and occupied it.

5) 11:59 in second quarter. Dez catches a pass on Norman and Norman proceeds to step on Bryant's hand. The ref is looking right at Norman, about 3-yards away from him.

Had trouble finding this play because it actually happened near the 14-minute mark, if this is the same play. After Dez caught the ball, Norman kind of took a strange kick-poke at it with his foot with Dez on the ground. It wasn't an overt move and it wasn't like he stomped on his hand, so I can't see any reason for a penalty to be called.

6) 4:50 left in 2nd quarter. Playclock was at 0 when the ball was snapped.

The ball was snapped right after the play clock struck zero. It was pretty close.

7) 3:44 left in 2nd quarter, Dak beautifully bootlegs and throws to Beasley who is again, clear as day, face masked by Breeland.

Probably the worst blown call of the game. Breeland not only grabbed the mask, but pulled Beasley by it, then slapped him in the head for good measure. I love how Breeland looked around clearly expecting the flag that should have been thrown.

8) 1:31 left in 2nd quarter, T. Crawford beats Morgan Moses badly and holds him to prevent the sack.

It probably was a hold because Crawford was past Moses and Moses had his arm around him, but Crawford was not impeded much by it. I don't think that one's going to be called often simply because it didn't seem to affect the play. If Moses had jerked Crawford back, then it would have deserved to be called.

9) 1:04 left in 2nd quarter, Ryan Davis beats the LT and is put in a sleeper hold with no call.

Agree completely. Davis had beaten the left tackle who wrapped an arm around his neck to keep him from getting to Cousins. If they are going to call Smith for a similar move, they needed to call this one.

10) 4:58 left in 3rd quarter. T. Crawford beats Morgan Moses and Moses tackles him from behind to the ground.

Also agree completely on this one. Crawford was completely past Moses and headed toward Cousins when he was jerked back, looked like by the collar, and stopped. This one should not have been missed because it was so obvious.

11) 11:39 left in 4th quarter. Norman gets beat by Dez and twists his ankle after the play was dead.

Yes, I can't understand how you don't call a personal foul or unsportsmanlike conduct on this one. The play was clearly over, Bryant was down and Norman treats his leg like a rag doll. Maybe the officials just considered it his reaction to getting beat, but that's not a good excuse.

12) 7:24 left in the 4th quarter, EE's TD run is negated by a bogus holding call on Mayle. What's even worse is 4 referees called the hold on Mayle, I guess not understanding that pancake blocks are not holds. [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure why our fans don't see that as a hold. Mayle was pulling on Whitner's shoulder pads as Whitner was trying to pull away and make the tackle. Every official saw that and it affected the play.

Is the argument that Mayle had the inside of the shoulder pads instead of outside? He was clearly tugging and impeding and was not doing it with just his blocking. Four flags flew for this because it was obvious.

13) 7:12 left in 4th quarter. Personally I don't think this should be a penalty, but the rule book states pretty clearly and Mason Foster picked up Dunbar and slammed him to the ground.

The officials overinterpreted this rule, adding in an element where the defender had to "slam the player into the ground on his head." By rule, it should have been a penalty, as Mike Pereira said, because he lifted and slammed Dunbar.

14) 6:30 left in 4th quarter, looks like Baker (I think it was him) is well offsides. Didn't matter because EE ran for a TD anyway.

Baker clearly jumped the snap and should have been flagged for it.

So I've got six to eight that either should have been called or called differently.

Please understand that I did not do this with the intent of contradicting you, but only to try to give my assessment of the plays that you pointed out. I do think the Commanders benefited more in this game than Dallas from blown calls, but it was not be a vast amount as shown by some of the calls (around five) I mentioned earlier that Washington did not get.
 
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Nightman

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OK, how would such a conspiracy work? Are they radioing in calls on the headsets? Are all the refs in on it or just some? If its just some, what happens when the clean refs disagree with the dirty refs? Why hasn't a retired ref come out and exposed this conspiracy? Are they afraid for their life?

No one can rule out the possibility of individual crooked refs, but to pose that games are some how "orchestrated" is pushing it towards absurdity.
I think the refs are graded and rewarded in ways that demand compliance.....I think that the crews are told to keep things close......the one thing the NFL doesn't want is blow-outs

If a team is up big at halftime, things will inevitably shift the other way in the second half
DAL was up 17-6 with the biggest TV crowd ever on FOX...they did not want a blow-out

A hold or 2 or 3(especially on a TD run) and no call on PI and a couple missed Personal Fouls can keep things close
 

dthahn

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Clearly there were bad calls and lack of calls for both teams. Equally clear is that the number of bad calls/missed calls heavily leaned against Dallas. People have posted that the NFL is partly responsible for this. I couldn't disagree more. The NFL wants to put out a good product to continue making billions of dollars. I think Vegas is mostly responsible for the corruption in the officiating. Sports gambling is also a billion dollar industry. How hard is it to bribe a ref to tilt a game one way or another? Refs are only part-time employees with other jobs during the offseason. Also, there are no consequences for refs that have poorly officiated games.

If you notice in that game, Dallas did not cover the point spread. Therefore, Vegas Sportsbooks saved at least tens of millions of dollars on that game alone. Dallas was an overwhelming pick to bet on for that game. Therefore, Vegas obviously would not want Dallas to cover the point spread.

I can't remember the NBA official that was caught tilting games one way or another with his officiating. When he admitted his actions, he also alleged that tampering with sports officiating was rampant and that the NBA and other sports leagues needed to clean it up.
 

Idgit

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I know you've reached capacity and you're just blindly responding to each of my posts with mindless responses, but I did address the "evidence" of the OP's post in my comments. Try to stretch yourself just a little bit more, read and comprehend.

You waded in, mistook a thread about a singular refereeing crew in a singular game for a league-wide indictment, and then failed to offer even a crumb of support for your original argument until it's baselessness was exposed.

Don't try to pretend this was anything but you embarrassing yourself again and trying to deflect when you should show a bit of intellectual honestly and own yet another bad take.
 

DogFace

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Not all claims deserve measured responses. When the starting-point is the Cowboys being "jobbed," there's no chance for rational discourse.

You're swayed apparently. Go figure.

Typical cop out answer. Your whiney attempts to somehow seem above to fray are all measured responses.

Try to use some facts to back up your argument. Or continue complaining about the point of the facts while not disputing any of the specific instances pointed out clearly to you.
 

DogFace

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"Sometimes I wonder if this has to do with Jerry suing the league way back when...."

Here is one example implying its payback for Jerry suing the league and that was just on page 1. The conspiracy lunacy is rife around here.
Although, "sometimes I wonder" is simply that. Someone throwing an idea out there. He is not convinced in any way. It only is meant to mean that sometimes he considers it while wondering about how a human could misinterpret what is going on directly in front of them. It is puzzling to astute fans and you're doing nothing to dispell the examples. Only attacking with the conspiracy stupid lunatic accusations. Or so you implied.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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You waded in, mistook a thread about a singular refereeing crew in a singular game for a league-wide indictment, and then failed to offer even a crumb of support for your original argument until it's baselessness was exposed.

Don't try to pretend this was anything but you embarrassing yourself again and trying to deflect when you should show a bit of intellectual honestly and own yet another bad take.

As predicted, more mindless blather. Now you're hanging your hat on the intent of this thread supposedly being meant to address the clear referring bias/collusion to do-in the Cowboys for this game.

Brilliant.

And the irony of the most useless and intellectually dishonest member on this board calling me out, lol.

I guess I should be offended, but the comedic value is too rich; you're only working with the tools you've got.

[Quick, I hear fuzzy getting beat up on another thread....put on your cape!]
 
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