The 2016 Salary Cap and the Argument for keeping Carr

jterrell

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Last year the team would only have saved 600K by cutting him so Carr's agent refused to take a pay cut because the team had no leverage to do so.

This year the team would save 6.4 Million by cutting him so they have all the leverage. Carr could take a dramatic restructure downward like Doug Free did in 2013 and remain on the team (which I think happens) but otherwise he will certainly be cut.

The reality is the max money for Carr is probably to be released then sign a 4 year deal elsewhere. Something like 4 years 20m with 9m guaranteed. That basically breaks him even this year.

Doug Free really wanted to be here and has made being in Dallas a priority. Carr has been making good 'business' decisions.
I just expect Carr to move on.

We already owe Carr more in bonus money than he is worth in free agency. He'd have to agree to an insane pay cut to make it sensible for Dallas
 

AzorAhai

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Well S. Jones all but said they are going to do something with his contract Friday on the Ben and Skin show. Wasn't asked about it. He volunteered thst information stating some about how they are going to have to look at Carrs contract situation and followed it up by saying how big of a need CB would be to address this offseason.
 

Nightman

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No one wanted to cut Carr more this past off season than me. I was very surprised when he was retained early, when there were some free agent alternatives out there, but cutting him now probably makes less sense.

You now only really save by making him a post June cut, which doesn't really help you this year anyways. Otherwise you only really save 6 million when you cut him, and you still need to find his replacement in the draft and/or free agency. I feel like with Scandrick coming back from his injury, you can't expect the best out of him (although it did happen pretty early in the offseason). I think you definitely move on from Claiborne. I actually bet both of these players will have the Newman/Jones effect where they go on to have much better careers else where.

Given the general desire to play Jones at free safety, I don't really see the point in bringing in a high priced free agent free safety and having either him or Jones play out of position.

What is probably best for this secondary is to draft a couple corners in the first five rounds and pair them with Scandrick and Carr, with Jones playing at safety. I would look to get a replacement strong safety next year.

I honestly think it is time to cut bait with Jason Witten. His expense outweighs his production, especially when you factor in his false starts. He keeps us firmly in an age where tight ends aren't dynamic players that need to be accounted for. 19th in touchdowns this year, but let's give him a pass for this year, but he only had 5 last year. No way you cut Tony Romo's best friend though...You could definitely get a dynamic player for what he costs you the next two years.

Brings me to Doug Free and the fact that he probably doesn't get cut either. You only save 2.5 million for cutting him unless he was a June 1st cut, which again doesn't help you and we don't have his replacement set up yet. I'd like for him to become a backup this year, and for him to be cut next year, where we can save 5 million in cutting him right off the bat.

I can't go with cutting Witten and keep Carr under any scenario.

Carr and his 9.1m salary has to go. Period.
 

Galian Beast

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If we draft a player like Bosa who might go 1st overall but will add to the pass rush.

Then the deal thing to do with Carr is re-negotiate his salary, because he is solid, just not a top 5-10 CB like he's getting paid. Adding to the dline will add effectiveness to our DB's.

We get savings and don't have to pay another starter. Use that $ on the DL, LB and/or SS positions. Draft a couple corners like suggested.

Claiborne won't get much on the open market and may actually get signed to a cost effective deal. New DB coach

Church can go and Wilcox can be a cost effective backup who can swing at FS and SS if needed in case of injury.


My only fear with renegotiating Carr's contract is that he only has one year left on his deal. You would have to extend him even longer, and I'd really rather not do that, unless it was for significant cap savings.


Totally agree, Cowboys should spend a 2nd rounder on this dynamic player just begging to be picked. What could possibly go wrong?

Tight ends coming in the league now are far more dynamic than Jason Witten is at the moment. It's simply a fact of life.

That's what's known as burying the lede.

At what point do you cut Witten? Would you re-sign him? And if you wouldn't re-sign him to what he is making now, why would you keep him for what he is making now? Doesn't make sense.

"Only save 6 million"

That's a good amount of dough.

Unless he renegotiated his contract significantly, he won't be here next season.


It isn't a lot when you consider the cost of replacing him. Even if you get a corner in the first round, there is no guarantee that they will be ready to start day one for you and be as good or better than Carr, so you really have to go with a free agent or a trade, both come with considerable cost.

Carr and Free roster decisions shouldn't be based on how much you would or wouldn't save on the salary cap. Why don't we try this weird concept of competition by bringing in better players at their positions? We may already have a replacement for Free in Green.

If you read what I said in the OP, you would see that I said that very thing. I would keep Carr and Free because at worst they are veteran depth, but I would look for players on and off the roster to replace them next year.

I see no reason to keep Carr. He is paid as an elite CB and plays poorly. I would put a PS player out there before I would continue to pay Carr 1 red cent.

As bad as Carr's contract is, there are much worse players on this team than him and certainly in the league. Finding a replacement for him would prove costly.

I've personally had enough of trying to fit round pegs in square holes. This team made a huge investment in man-to-man cornerbacks in Carr and Claiborne and then made the decision to switch to a scheme that uses a lot of zone coverage. How can anyone be naive enough to be surprised when there a problem?

It's time to get some cornerbacks who fit your scheme. Otherwise, dump your current defense for one that fits what your players do best. 'Patchwork' is obviously not working.


I agree, but I think you can't do everything we probably need to do in one off-season, especially with a really weak free agent class this year.

I think if we can get a #2 WR in free agency though, it would really open up what we can do on defense in the draft.

I'm only getting rid of Carr if a suitable candidate is signed in free agency. He is a sub-par play with a heavy price tab but they have to keep him until they no longer need him.

DT and CB would be my priorities on defense (if I was Jerry) going into free agency. I would look to draft a d-line player, LB, or safety high in the draft.


I Agree completely. I think we can get that defensive tackle pretty easily with Tony McDaniel. Free Agency is another story though for cornerbacks. Not much out there this year.
 

black label

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Wilcox needs to go...

k9vxn8-jpg.60701
 

Galian Beast

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Sorry but the Carr math is just poorly done.

Carr is almost certainly getting cut.

He has a base of 9.1 million. The team has tried in the past to renegotiate with ZERO help form Carr.
If he stays he has a cap hit of over 13m. You can release him for ~7.5m.
That is PRE June 1st/ You save ~5.5m.
Post June 1st you save over 8mil.

We could sign the best available CB and not pay 5.5m this year in cap cost and almost certianly wouldn't pay 8m.


You're math is the exact same as mine. The problem is who are you going to sign for under 5.5 million?
 

Doomsday101

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You're math is the exact same as mine. The problem is who are you going to sign for under 5.5 million?

There are guys like Patrick Robinson who has played better than Carr and was paid 2 mill last season. In 2 season Carr has not produced 1 int, I don't think it is that hard to replace him. I just think at his pay right now it would be foolish to pay him that kind of money.
 

Galian Beast

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There are guys like Patrick Robinson who has played better than Carr and was paid 2 mill last season. In 2 season Carr has not produced 1 int, I don't think it is that hard to replace him. I just think at his pay right now it would be foolish to pay him that kind of money.

Robinson had 1 interception this year and 1 pass deflection...
 

Doomsday101

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Robinson had 1 interception this year and 1 pass deflection...

More than Carr point is you can replace a JAG with a JAG at a lot less of a price. Carr was signed to be an elite CB he has not come close to that and if I am going to get JAG play I may as well pay JAG money seem to make more sense than elite pay for JAG play

I honestly do not see the upside of paying out over 9 million for a guy who has not had a single int in the last 2 years and has giving up a lot of big plays including some that have cost us games
 

Dhragon

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While production-wise Witten is in decline, I feel he is still productive enough and provides leadership and other intangibles that it would be stupid to cut him right now. You're not guaranteed to draft a Gronk when you draft a TE ( in other words, you might not be upgrading at all ).

The time to part ways with Witten is coming soon, but not yet IMO.
 

Doomsday101

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While production-wise Witten is in decline, I feel he is still productive enough and provides leadership and other intangibles that it would be stupid to cut him right now. You're not guaranteed to draft a Gronk when you draft a TE ( in other words, you might not be upgrading at all ).

The time to part ways with Witten is coming soon, but not yet IMO.

I agree Witten was still top 5 in receptions among TE and would not be looking to cut him but would not prevent me from looking at top TE in the draft and cutting the number of snaps Jason plays.
 

Dhragon

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I agree Witten was still top 5 in receptions among TE and would not be looking to cut him but would not prevent me from looking at top TE in the draft and cutting the number of snaps Jason plays.

Fair enough - though haven't we already tried drafting other TE's pretty high and our coaches then won't play them much at all. Not sure the next highly drafted TE would fair much better.
 

conner01

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Marinelli would prefer to play a lot more zone IMO. Scandrick is probably the only guy who is capable of being effective playing zone. Mo and Carr cannot. So maybe they let those 2 go and acquire CBs who can effectively play zone coverages. Keep Jones at FS and add another S.

The problem is can you sign a couple
Sounds good but not always that easy without out bidding someone
Everyone wants good cb
 

jterrell

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You're math is the exact same as mine. The problem is who are you going to sign for under 5.5 million?

Virtually any CB will cost less than that next year in the first year of the deal.
That's the issue. IT is always cheaper ot get a guy in year 1 then it is his final seaosn ro two when all his bonuses have stacked up.


But you can bet Dallas designates Carr a post June 1 anyway. Frees up 8m and can go look at dozens of guys.
I'd quote certainly resign Mo before I kept Carr. Better player today and far better going forward unless he has a career ending type injury.

When Mo was healthy this year, he had the WR1s.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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No one wanted to cut Carr more this past off season than me. I was very surprised when he was retained early, when there were some free agent alternatives out there, but cutting him now probably makes less sense.

You now only really save by making him a post June cut, which doesn't really help you this year anyways. Otherwise you only really save 6 million when you cut him, and you still need to find his replacement in the draft and/or free agency. I feel like with Scandrick coming back from his injury, you can't expect the best out of him (although it did happen pretty early in the offseason). I think you definitely move on from Claiborne. I actually bet both of these players will have the Newman/Jones effect where they go on to have much better careers else where.

Given the general desire to play Jones at free safety, I don't really see the point in bringing in a high priced free agent free safety and having either him or Jones play out of position.

What is probably best for this secondary is to draft a couple corners in the first five rounds and pair them with Scandrick and Carr, with Jones playing at safety. I would look to get a replacement strong safety next year.

I honestly think it is time to cut bait with Jason Witten. His expense outweighs his production, especially when you factor in his false starts. He keeps us firmly in an age where tight ends aren't dynamic players that need to be accounted for. 19th in touchdowns this year, but let's give him a pass for this year, but he only had 5 last year. No way you cut Tony Romo's best friend though...You could definitely get a dynamic player for what he costs you the next two years.

Brings me to Doug Free and the fact that he probably doesn't get cut either. You only save 2.5 million for cutting him unless he was a June 1st cut, which again doesn't help you and we don't have his replacement set up yet. I'd like for him to become a backup this year, and for him to be cut next year, where we can save 5 million in cutting him right off the bat.

Only thing is that the FA market is stacked in secondary. This is the 4th offseason since the new CBA and the contract structures impact is about come full to bare. All top 100 picks now get 4 years deals is the cause. There are a ton of FA from the 2012 drafts top 100.

Carr has no leverage.
 

Bluefin

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You now only really save by making him a post June cut, which doesn't really help you this year anyways. Otherwise you only really save 6 million when you cut him, and you still need to find his replacement in the draft and/or free agency.

Since when is "only" saving $6M not significant?

There are only 7 players with 2016 cap numbers over $6M on the books right now

I'd rather do it all at once. Keep all of Brandon Carr's dead money on the 2016 salary cap and thus completely wipe his contract off the books. No dead money on the 2017 cap.

I can't go with cutting Witten and keep Carr under any scenario.

Agreed.

Jason Witten rode on the same bus with Tony Romo when they arrived for rookie mini-camp. They will most likely leave the game together as well.

Carr and his 9.1m salary has to go. Period.

Absolutely.

Dallas is paying top dollar for bottom shelf production.

I'd want to jettison Carr if he was making the minimum. He hardly ever breaks up passes, never gets interceptions, isn't physical enough and misses too many tackles.

Time to go.
 

Frosty

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No one wanted to cut Carr more this past off season than me. I was very surprised when he was retained early, when there were some free agent alternatives out there, but cutting him now probably makes less sense.

You now only really save by making him a post June cut, which doesn't really help you this year anyways. Otherwise you only really save 6 million when you cut him, and you still need to find his replacement in the draft and/or free agency. I feel like with Scandrick coming back from his injury, you can't expect the best out of him (although it did happen pretty early in the offseason). I think you definitely move on from Claiborne. I actually bet both of these players will have the Newman/Jones effect where they go on to have much better careers else where.

Given the general desire to play Jones at free safety, I don't really see the point in bringing in a high priced free agent free safety and having either him or Jones play out of position.

What is probably best for this secondary is to draft a couple corners in the first five rounds and pair them with Scandrick and Carr, with Jones playing at safety. I would look to get a replacement strong safety next year.

I honestly think it is time to cut bait with Jason Witten. His expense outweighs his production, especially when you factor in his false starts. He keeps us firmly in an age where tight ends aren't dynamic players that need to be accounted for. 19th in touchdowns this year, but let's give him a pass for this year, but he only had 5 last year. No way you cut Tony Romo's best friend though...You could definitely get a dynamic player for what he costs you the next two years.

Brings me to Doug Free and the fact that he probably doesn't get cut either. You only save 2.5 million for cutting him unless he was a June 1st cut, which again doesn't help you and we don't have his replacement set up yet. I'd like for him to become a backup this year, and for him to be cut next year, where we can save 5 million in cutting him right off the bat.

Good post....Would love to cut Carr but at what cost....not much cap savings when you have pay to replace him....a FA will demand at least 3-5mil per year and who is available? If the Cowboys use the draft... you have a young rookie learning the game and wont make an impact in 2016..IMO its best to re-do Carr's contract and draft his replacement. 2 things we all have to remember, if Dallas cuts Free, Carr and any player they have to be replaced. Salaries don't get cheaper and future performance is unknown......at least the you no the devil you have on the current roster.....

In hindsight, Carr's contract was a bad contract from the start....Cowboys over paid for a AVG Corner. Carr performance hasn't changed much..he stays healthy and still at best an average CB. Like his reliability, but cap hit is a huge problem....
 
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