The 3-4 solution

[waldoputty]

With respect, he hasn't erased TEs to the degree I would expect a 1st rounder to do. And against scrubs in the latest preseason game he looked average. Great athlete, bad football player.

one analysis here (forgot who) indicated it was the LB coverage that was the problem.

 

[mattjames2010]

Both the 4-3 or 3-4 will work, but it does depend on the TYPE of system you run and the coaching staff behind it.

I simply don't think we have the defensive coaching staff right now. Rod does enough to get by, where people can point to a few specific areas on defense and say "Hey look where they were ranked. Pretty good, aye?" - But was anyone really surprised when it was our defense that ended our season last year? That in a critical moment, we allowed Rodgers to make a throw that will be part of his all-time highlight reel? I sure as hell wasn't. And I'll go as far as to say, we'll be in a similar situations more than a few times this season and an offensive coordinator will outsmart Rod.

I don't want to shift to a new scheme, I want us to bring in a better DC for the 4-3. I don't want another 2013 debacle.

 

[CowboyStar88]

If he busts, you wouldn't be building around him in the first place.

Who builds around an ineffective player that you hope does better with a scheme change? How many times has that happened?

All in all, if Charlton makes it or not. His talent will be evident. That is all there is to it.

That's my point

 

[haleyrules]

The Broncos played a 3-4. It could be argued the Seahawks play a 3-4 variant with a Leo-type rusher.

OK. That was not really the point l was making. The Seahawks, like say, the Patriots employ a highbred system its still a 4-3...basically..but l get what your saying. Those defenses are still darn good...even with a salary cap..etc. it can be done. Not easy, and maybe not with the Cowboys offense oriented FO. .

 

[mattjames2010]

At the risk of sounding like a homer, Byron Jones is a heck of a football player. We'd like to see him force more turnovers, but he erases opposing tight ends in coverage and has done a lot of good things his first two years. I hope he's ready for a breakout season.

1 forced turnover his entire career
Lacks ball awareness
Decent tackler
Is often juked and cut out of his shoes by TE's

This is a first rounder we are talking about. He is in no way living up to it - he's an okay safety, and honestly, that's just not good enough.

 

[Alexander]

OK. That was not really the point l was making. The Seahawks, like say, the Patriots employ a highbred system its still a 4-3...basically..but l get what your saying. Those defenses are still darn good...even with a salary cap..etc. it can be done. Not easy, and maybe not with the Cowboys offense oriented FO. .

My whole point is you need to go with a variant D to give yourself a shot with the available talent.

 

[waldoputty]

1 forced turnover his entire career
Lacks ball awareness
Decent tackler
Is often juked and cut out of his shoes by TE's

This is a first rounder we are talking about. He is in no way living up to it - he's an okay safety, and honestly, that's just not good enough.

is he playing the centerfield role like most great FS do?
or is the need to cover the TE changing his role?

 

[haleyrules]

My whole point is you need to go with a variant D to give yourself a shot with the available talent.

OK. Good point. I will always believe in the 4-3 base and go from there. Like NE. The Patriots have shown what an astute front office can do with even poor draft position. To me, the lack of top talent in the FO, not to put too fine a point on it, has be the biggest problem in Dallas for nearly a generation. Talent can be found in any round. Prescott is a fine example, again offensive. To me, the Cowboys need to improve, drastically, their defensive talent evaluation.

 

[big dog cowboy]

and we could have picked Watt.

The Cowboys could have. But they chose not to. Because Taco fit their defensive system better.

Also, the vast majority of predraft mock had Taco BEFORE Watt for a reason. Why some can't accept that is mind boggling.

 

[waldoputty]

OK. Good point. I will always believe in the 4-3 base and go from there. Like NE. The Patriots have shown what an astute front office can do with even poor draft position. To me, the lack of top talent in the FO, not to put too fine a point on it, has be the biggest problem in Dallas for nearly a generation. Talent can be found in any round. Prescott is a fine example, again offensive. To me, the Cowboys need to improve, drastically, their defensive talent evaluation.

NE is not a fair example. they got Brady for a franchise QB for >15 years.
The most difficult position has been filled for all that time and could devote high picks to other positions.

 

[ConstantReboot]

We are all hoping Taco plays like Hardy or Bosa.
His physical traits are pretty much equal or in some ways little better.

However, if he does not pan out, what do we do.
I think the 3-4 may be the solution.
I would say let marinelli and garrett go (keep the offense/coordinator the same) and go to a blitzing 3-4 and a head coach who is good at game management.

Key advantages:
1. we have most of the players for a 3-4.
2. it is probably easier to draft a Watt OLB type than a top DE.

The transition after the season is surprisingly painless as most of the players are inhouse already:
DT - thornton, Collins, 2nd pick/FA (big 330lb type)
DE - Taco, Irving, Collins, Tcrawford
LOLB - Tapper
ROLB - Jaylon, 1st pick/FA (watt type), Nzeocha
ILB - Jaylon, Lee, Wilson, Nzeocha
DBs - no change

We then draft a LG 3rd round and use the rest of the draft to draft more OLB types.

Taco's traits aren't pretty much equal or better to Hardy or Bosa. That is what most would like to believe. But its not. Taco ran a very pedestrian 4.93 in the combines. Hardy's and Bosa had better times.

Secondly, were not going to a 3-4. Not now or in the near future. It took us about 5 years to really switch back from a 3-4 to a 4-3. I don't think its a good idea to do it again.

 

[waldoputty]

The Cowboys could have. But they chose not to. Because Taco fit their defensive system better.

Also, the vast majority of predraft mock had Taco BEFORE Watt for a reason. Why some can't accept that is mind boggling.

i dont pretend to be a draft guru.
this whole thread is only IF taco/tapper/misc fails.

marinelli made the call for taco to fit his system.
he took taco who seemed the higher risk guy to get an edge rush over.
if he is right, we win and he stays.
if he is wrong, we lose and he needs to be canned.
perform or get out.

same with garrett.
if he cannot run the game management better, delegate or get out.

 

[waldoputty]

Taco's traits aren't pretty much equal or better to Hardy or Bosa. That is what most would like to believe. But its not. Taco ran a very pedestrian 4.93 in the combines. Hardy's and Bosa had better times.

Secondly, were not going to a 3-4. Not now or in the near future.

we spent hours hashing this out after the draft.

it is not the 4.93 40 yard time that is relevant.
it is the 10 yard split time that is relevant.

taco was just as fast on the 10 yard if not faster.
we have similar athletes.
may be hardy has an advantage over the other 2 in being stronger.

 

[Alexander]

OK. Good point. I will always believe in the 4-3 base and go from there. Like NE. The Patriots have shown what an astute front office can do with even poor draft position. To me, the lack of top talent in the FO, not to put too fine a point on it, has be the biggest problem in Dallas for nearly a generation. Talent can be found in any round. Prescott is a fine example, again offensive. To me, the Cowboys need to improve, drastically, their defensive talent evaluation.

Well, things are not looking good in that regard.

Garrett has an influence. Marinelli should be bouncing off the walls for talent yet until this year, never got a commitment.

I don't see that changing. The current structure is a hurdle.

I can see flailing away at pass rushers to fit an antiquated scheme for a while, especially if the team has even moderate/.500 level success.

We need an elite edge or a dominant 3-T for this system to work.

We have done nothing to address either since Marinelli or even Kiffin has been in charge. You have to have a catalyst.

 

[big dog cowboy]

marinelli made the call for taco to fit his system.
he took taco who seemed the higher risk guy to get an edge rush over.
if he is right, we win and he stays.
if he is wrong, we lose and he needs to be canned.
perform or get out.

You fire someone over a missed draft pick at 28? I don't think so. Maybe a top 5 pick. But not that low. Especially when there had to be a group consenses (from the scouts to the top) on that pick.

 

[haleyrules]

NE is not a fair example. they got Brady for a franchise QB for >15 years.
The most difficult position has been filled for all that time and could devote high picks to other positions.

Brady is only one part in the machine. Heck, their back up is starter ready. Their defense is alway top shelf, Belichick, is a defensive guy. His staff is top notch. Its not just the QB in New England...they win when Brady doesn't play. They beat Seattle on a defensive play. They win in the trenches. They win with...you guessed it, a great front office. Take this off season. They won it...hands down. Brady has nothing to do with that. They seldom draft high. It gets back to the FO. Its always the best FO that wins. Remember Jimmy Johnson.....

 

[waldoputty]

You fire someone over a missed draft pick at 28? I don't think so. Maybe a top 5 pick. But not that low. Especially when there had to be a group consenses (from the scouts to the top) on that pick.

he has had years.
not just a pick but his system.
we did not get watt because watt did not fit his system.
if taco bombs and watt prospers, then it is marinelli that is inflexible and need to be canned.
if we should have gotten takk but the case was not made strongly, then his failure.
he could have easily incorporated a passrushing LB.
if he refuses to do it, then his ideals dont meet reality and he and his system need to go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[waldoputty]

Brady is only one part in the machine. Heck, their back up is starter ready. Their defense is alway top shelf, Belichick, is a defensive guy. His staff is top notch. Its not just the QB in New England...they win when Brady doesn't play. They beat Seattle on a defensive play. They win in the trenches. They win with...you guessed it, a great front office. Take this off season. They won it...hands down. Brady has nothing to do with that. They seldom draft high. It gets back to the FO. Its always the best FO that wins. Remember Jimmy Johnson.....

when you have >15 years of stability in the QB position, it allows you to train up backup QB. GB is the same way.

And Belicheat is superior to Garrett, they are not even in the same universe.

 

[ConstantReboot]

we spent hours hashing this out after the draft.

it is not the 4.93 40 yard time that is relevant.
it is the 10 yard split time that is relevant.

taco was just as fast on the 10 yard if not faster.
we have similar athletes.
may be hardy has an advantage over the other 2 in being stronger.

The 4.93 still needs to be counted as such because its a measurement for athleticism. Thus players that clocks well in the 40s are usually drafted higher. Especially for a player thats supposed to create pressure and produce sacks. I would not draft a DE with a 4.93 grade in the first round. Thus I think we reached.

 

[haleyrules]

when you have >15 years of stability in the QB position, it allows you to train up backup QB. GB is the same way.

And Belicheat is superior to Garrett, they are not even in the same universe.

He is vastly superior to ole Jerry boy too. His staff, from top to bottom is superior. Their entire organisation is superior.