The botched coin toss thread

[lockster]

Yea but I am willing to bet when we move passed statutory law and start looking at the case law we will find that most cases see it being ruled this way.

Edit: sorry that law school ruined me lol

This is the problem with case law. The letter of the law is usually not the spirit of the law. Dak might have messed up in his delivery, but his whole sentences showed what his intent was. Case law castrates, the constitution , and justice. Which has horrid results in our society. The letter of the law is how law enforcement makes a living stealing money all day long from its citizens.

 

[ESisback]

In any event, ESPN ran a picture with the headline referring to “Dak’s Blunder”, not the actual story worthy of coverage—the annihilation of the heavily favored Rams by the unworthy Cowboys.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't see anything in the rules about getting to clarify one's choice. Dak made one initially.

The ref asked again to clarify. The ref literally asked him to do so.

I don't see anything in the rules that says that can't happen.

In fact, this is exactly what a ref would do if a coach said "decline" on a penalty when the obvious call would be to accept.

Only thing controversial here is the ref going with the kick off twice judgement and having to be corrected by the league.

 

[Hoofbite]

Suppose Walt Anderson doesn't ask for clarification, and the back-and-forth goes like this:

Dak: We want to kick it. Kicking it that way.

Walt: Dallas has elected to kick.
​

He gave Dak a chance to clarify and Dak answered both "yes" and "no". I can't blame Walt Anderson because he was trying to get it right and Dak more-or-less replied, "we're going to defer, but we're also going to kick".

At the same time, I applaud the league for making the right call in overruling Anderson. I don't feel either displayed poor judgement given their respective circumstances. Walt had to make a decision in real-time, and the NFL Brass was given about 90 minutes to review and reconcile that decision. That's exactly how it should work; officials do the best they can and if it turns out to be wrong then their decision is overruled.

Don't really understand the backlash on this one.

 

[Dallasfann]

Anyone who got worked up over this or cares about it in the slightest way possible, most likely was rooting for the Rams to win the game. We could of kicked to them at the start of every quarter and still won by 20.

 

[Hoofbite]

It’s really dumb..... the ref knows what it means. We now have to take things literally.

Absolutely. Subjectivity is literally the worst influence in NFL officiating, and it probably responsible for some of the worst calls of all time.

Was it a catch, or wasn't it a catch?

Did he complete the process?

Was the knee down, or wasn't it?

Was the arm moving forward?
​

The less interpreting NFL officials do, the better. Look at the wide variability in pass interference. It's entirely a judgement call. Something as simple as the coin toss should be reduced to what an official thinks a player, "really meant".

​

 

[Captain-Crash]

he even glitched out with the pressure of making a call. give him a Xanax before the games. sheesh.

 

[BoltsNHorns]

I'm glad the NFL stepped in to correct this. Overall the situation was not handled very well by the head ref and the information be relayed to the Rams after halftime was lame.

Rams got screw over, that ended any comeback we could have made. Last year SB broke me so I don't care anymore. Oh and our games against the Steelers this year when the refs screw over the Rams so badly over the same call they gave to the Steelers 3 freaking times!

 

[jaythecowboy]

OMG. There are 3 options at a coin toss, He picked kick and pointed. That is one of the choices.

end of story. You have to say what you mean.

That's actually two choices. That is picking kick and a direction. You don't get both.

I believe this is correct. Someone mentioned that Dak "clarified" his choice after saying "kick." Per the rules, you don't even get a chance to clarify your coin toss call if you say one thing and then try to clarify a different way even if the official flubs the actual toss.

Dak said kick and picked a direction which is not a valid choice. You can choose kick or choose a direction, but not both.

 

[Proof]

Rams got screw over, that ended any comeback we could have made. Last year SB broke me so I don't care anymore. Oh and our games against the Steelers this year when the refs screw over the Rams so badly over the same call they gave to the Steelers 3 freaking times!

Lol they didn’t get screwed over and McVay should be ashamed that he actually expected the ball

what a silly conversation.

 

[BoltsNHorns]

I think all parties had brain farts. Dak saying “kick” and “we defer the 2nd half” (??) is weird, but it’s kinda obvious what he meant. He wanted to defer the ball. The refs were being dumb in this situation as well. Only in Dallas do you find situations like these . Hopefully it won’t happen again. As long as the refs and the NFL fixed the situation, who cares anymore?

It was the wrong call by NY. This will open up another pandora box. Rules state whatever is said first is final. You don't change a rule mid-game and if you do, you don't wait until the start of the 2nd half and ruin another team game plan. Yes my Rams would have got it on a technically but it was still the right call. NY add more fire to an already awful referee organizations.

Remember the time Cousins kneel instead of spike the ball but meant to spike the ball? It didn't matter, they stick to the rule. Wrong or right does not matter, what matter is sticking to the rule book. They didn't and this will cause controversy since this was America game of the week. At this point, changing the rules, not enforcing the rules, playing favorites, deciding not to look at touchdown replays/reviews is pretty much whatever the referees and NY wants. This is pretty much on par with NBA refs.

 

[BoltsNHorns]

Lol they didn’t get screwed over and McVay should be ashamed that he actually expected the ball

what a silly conversation.

Yes we did. Yes it was wrong but it is the rule. The rule state the first choice is final. No where in the rule state you can go back and review it. Replay cannot be use for coin toss. That the rules, right or wrong, that is the rules. I don't care if it right, the tuck rule was BS but it was in the rules.

 

[Proof]

Yes we did. Yes it was wrong but it is the rule. The rule state the first choice is final. No where in the rule state you can go back and review it. Replay cannot be use for coin toss. That the rules, right or wrong, that is the rules. I don't care if it right, the tuck rule was BS but it was in the rules.

lol you’ve never even heard of this rule before

it had zero bearing on the game and was a non-issue.

for an actual example of being screwed please re-visit last years NFC championship game.

 

[RoboQB]

It was a little surprising to see that happen when I know an 8 year old
little leaguer is taught the difference between kicking and deferring.

It also reminds me of when Donovan McNabb didn't know you could
end in a tie.

Maybe he just had too many Red Bulls and smelling salts before the game.
It all worked out.

 

[jaythecowboy]

In the end I'm glad they ruled the way they did. The real mess up was that the Rams didn't find out they weren't getting the ball until after halftime. That should have been cleared up early. Rams may have played the last two minutes differently if they knew they weren't getting the ball after halftime.

 

[BoltsNHorns]

lol you’ve never even heard of this rule before

it had zero bearing on the game and was a non-issue.

for an actual example of being screwed please re-visit last years NFC championship game.

It a lost of possession so yes it has bearing. Don't use the NFCCG as your example, Rams got screw over in that game more than the Saints. Just accept that dak choke got bail and be done with it. If you want technical I will show you the rules instead.

If it was my Rams screwing up the coin toss, I would be piss regardless. The NFL does not follow the freaking rulebook at all and play favorites. If this was any other team, say the Lions, NY wouldn't have care. But its not even the call that the problem, the fact that it wasn't change immediately and screw an entire team plans. They said Rams get the ball and as they get on the field for the 2nd half it was change. That mean the entire gameplan for the half was discarded. If you think it a non-issue then you are biased. It isn't a non-issue that why its being talk on various forums right now.

 

[BoltsNHorns]

In the end I'm glad they ruled the way they did. The real mess up was that the Rams didn't find out they weren't getting the ball until after halftime. That should have been cleared up early. Rams may have played the last two minutes differently if they knew they weren't getting the ball after halftime.

That what I'm getting at. Change the call but we sure wouldn't have kneel if we knew were kicking. We lost a possesion and our entire half time game plan was for nothing. After chance of a comeback was over by then.

 

[nobody]

It a lost of possession so yes it has bearing. Don't use the NFCCG as your example, Rams got screw over in that game more than the Saints. Just accept that dak choke got bail and be done with it. If you want technical I will show you the rules instead.

If it was my Rams screwing up the coin toss, I would be piss regardless. The NFL does not follow the freaking rulebook at all and play favorites. If this was any other team, say the Lions, NY wouldn't have care. But its not even the call that the problem, the fact that it wasn't change immediately and screw an entire team plans. They said Rams get the ball and as they get on the field for the 2nd half it was change. That mean the entire gameplan for the half was discarded. If you think it a non-issue then you are biased. It isn't a non-issue that why its being talk on various forums right now.

So you think one possession was the reason the Rams lost? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, besides, the Rams started off with the ball in the first half. That means the other side should get the ball in the other half.. Did the Rams get the ball in the second half after the Cowboys, or did the NFL somehow give the Cowboys the ball the entire half? The Rams sucked that game. The Cowboys didn't. It happens. It was a confusing, but in the end the right call was made. The Rams benefitted from the officials screwing the Saints last year. Every year teams get screwed over...especially in the playoffs.. Dez Bryant in 2014 ring a bell? The thing is, even if the Rams had got the ball first in the second half, they'd have still lost. Look at the way both teams played. Look at the final score. McVay wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Too bad. Sorry your season is over. That sucks. But it happens.

 

[JoeKing]

It's not a big deal, it all worked out. Dak learned it matters what you tell the ref when he asks you what you want to do when you win the coin toss. He'll be more specific with his words in the future.

 

[Runwildboys]

I don’t disagree with you and if the transcript is correct it’s apparent from the transcript that, regardless what his “intent” was, Dak made a mistake here

So then my question was why did we end up with the ball to start 2nd half. Intent means nothing. He made a valid choice and we should have been stuck with it. If the other team screwed up like this and still ended up getting the ball for second half the cries of conspiracy would be loud enough to wake the dead LOL

He did change it to "defer", after the official asked twice.