The case for going for Lawrence

[CouchCoach]

I provided several positive threads after the Steeler game . One was applauding our effort . Another applauding Gilbert’s performance.

“ Cowboys fought hard. Proud!!”
“ Gutsy performance by Gilbert”

Look them up

He did! He did! I called the authorities and told them the body snatchers had the real Greg.

With how this franchise has performed and worse than that tried to tell us we don't see what we see, finding anything positive about them takes work. You have to want to spin like the owner to do that.

Anyone coming to a fan site of a 2-7 team and expecting sunshine and rainbows is still digging through all the horse crap for that pony.

And lemme say this, you posters that do swim upstream here and try to inject some optimism, I admire you. There are a lot of disappointed kids here with another pair of socks under the Christmas tree.

 

[Diehardblues]

He did! He did! I called the authorities and told them the body snatchers had the real Greg.

With how this franchise has performed and worse than that tried to tell us we don't see what we see, finding anything positive about them takes work. You have to want to spin like the owner to do that.

Anyone coming to a fan site of a 2-7 team and expecting sunshine and rainbows is still digging through all the horse crap for that pony.

And lemme say this, you posters that do swim upstream here and try to inject some optimism, I admire you. There are a lot of disappointed kids here with another pair of socks under the Christmas tree.

Sorry, your thread got a little derailed with this guy. But personal insults is where I always dig in drawing the line.

 

[RonnieT24]

Sorry, your thread got a little derailed with this guy. But personal insults is where I always dig in drawing the line.

I am always fascinated that people presume to know what other people are thinking and want to insult people they've never met. It makes no sense.. If someone posts something that is factually inaccurate or based on what you feel to be a flawed hypothesis it's not that hard to discuss and disagree without name calling.. At least it shouldn't be. I am equally floored at people who purport to have read the minds of players whom they've likely never met nor even been without 500 feet of.. yet they know what said player is thinking and feeling from watching them on television. Truth be told that person is projecting their own feelings onto said player and then running with it as though it's gospel. That sort of discussion is a bigger waste of time than even normal football arguing. But let's face it, nothing written here is curing cancer.. so in reality it's all a waste of time.. So we should at least try to make it fun. I guess for some insulting strangers qualifies as fun. To each his own I guess.

 

[Diehardblues]

He did! He did! I called the authorities and told them the body snatchers had the real Greg.

With how this franchise has performed and worse than that tried to tell us we don't see what we see, finding anything positive about them takes work. You have to want to spin like the owner to do that.

Anyone coming to a fan site of a 2-7 team and expecting sunshine and rainbows is still digging through all the horse crap for that pony.

And lemme say this, you posters that do swim upstream here and try to inject some optimism, I admire you. There are a lot of disappointed kids here with another pair of socks under the Christmas tree.

Yea, I understand this season is debunked but our effort against Steelers was commendable considering the circumstances. Only the second time we’ve been a 2 TD Dog ( closed at +15 points) at home in SB era.

And we had the only undefeated team left in the league on the ropes needing a 2 score comeback in 4th qtr to pull it out. Truly remarkable .

 

[CouchCoach]

I am always fascinated that people presume to know what other people are thinking and want to insult people they've never met. It makes no sense.. If someone posts something that is factually inaccurate or based on what you feel to be a flawed hypothesis it's not that hard to discuss and disagree without name calling.. At least it shouldn't be. I am equally floored at people who purport to have read the minds of players whom they've likely never met nor even been without 500 feet of.. yet they know what said player is thinking and feeling from watching them on television. Truth be told that person is projecting their own feelings onto said player and then running with it as though it's gospel. That sort of discussion is a bigger waste of time than even normal football arguing. But let's face it, nothing written here is curing cancer.. so in reality it's all a waste of time.. So we should at least try to make it fun. I guess for some insulting strangers qualifies as fun. To each his own I guess.

There are some that come here, and to other sites with interaction, with the idea of purging the bile in their system. Often, it has nothing to do with whatever is written here and everything to do with what's going on in their life. "I'm as mad as hell and not going to take it any longer".

 

[CouchCoach]

Yea, I understand this season is debunked but our effort against Steelers was commendable considering the circumstances. Only the second time we’ve been a 2 TD Dog ( closed at +15 points) at home in SB era.

And we had the only undefeated team left in the league on the ropes needing a 2 score comeback in 4th qtr to pull it out. Truly remarkable .

Yes but we saw that a little differently. They came in flat and thinking this was going to be a bye week with action. I could see them looking at each other like "what the hell, pick it up".

Not taking anything away from the Cowboys playing hard at all but the Steelers did not play well for most of that game. Tomlin had all he needed to get their attention at halftime.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes but we saw that a little differently. They came in flat and thinking this was going to be a bye week with action. I could see them looking at each other like "what the hell, pick it up".

Not taking anything away from the Cowboys playing hard at all but the Steelers did not play well for most of that game. Tomlin had all he needed to get their attention at halftime.

I understand but it doesn’t matter. We had nothing to play for but pride . We had every excuse to fold our tent up with our 4th string QB who had never made a NFL start.

In the end the better team won but if we aren’t going to give credit for that type of effort and performance even in a losing effort then I’m not sure when you would.

 

[CouchCoach]

I understand but it doesn’t matter. We had nothing to play for but pride . We had every excuse to fold our tent up with our 4th string QB who had never made a NFL start.

In the end the better team won but if we aren’t going to give credit for that type of effort and performance even in a losing effort then I’m not sure when you would.

I disagree, they had the one thing they always have to play for, money.

I did give credit to them for effort but performance for me relates to the level of competition and how they play. Just like that record. The overall record of a team doesn't speak as loudly as the game against true contenders. The Cowboys seem to be able to put one game together against a good as, if not perceived to be better than, opponent each season but they can't sustain that.

The best thing about that game was they didn't quit on their HC and all of that "snake in the locker room" stuff has subsided.

I feel that one thing that has really helped this team, and it was a poor decision from the beginning, was bringing Nolan down to the sideline during the games. He's new to them and had reduced interaction with them in his first season, he needs to be accessible and responsive to them. He never should have been in the booth.

 

[RonnieT24]

I disagree, they had the one thing they always have to play for, money.

I did give credit to them for effort but performance for me relates to the level of competition and how they play. Just like that record. The overall record of a team doesn't speak as loudly as the game against true contenders. The Cowboys seem to be able to put one game together against a good as, if not perceived to be better than, opponent each season but they can't sustain that.

The best thing about that game was they didn't quit on their HC and all of that "snake in the locker room" stuff has subsided.

I feel that one thing that has really helped this team, and it was a poor decision from the beginning, was bringing Nolan down to the sideline during the games. He's new to them and had reduced interaction with them in his first season, he needs to be accessible and responsive to them. He never should have been in the booth.

I blame a lot of that on Garrett. Garrett was a good coach during the week but always lacking on game day. When his preparation was on point, so was the team's performance. When the other team changed up on him and brought something he had not anticipated he was terrible at adjusting on the fly. Not that he didn't do it on occasion, but for the most part when things didn't go according to plan we were doomed under Garrett. The hope here is that McCarthy will be better. To some extent it has already been shown with some of the massive comebacks we saw early in the season. I'm not sure those happen under Garrett. Good call on bringing Nolan down.. playing defense is a lot about want to and attitude. Hard to gauge that from 100 feet above.. Now we just have to get out of the gate faster. None of the issues probably get fixed this season. At least not fully.. but Both fat Mike and Skinny Mike will have a better read on the guys next season.. and getting horses like Dak, Tyron, La'el and Jarwin back won't hurt either.

 

[cern]

Sorry, your thread got a little derailed with this guy. But personal insults is where I always dig in drawing the line.

I'm not sure which i find more disturbing; insults, trolling or squealing to the mods.

 

[Diehardblues]

I disagree, they had the one thing they always have to play for, money.

I did give credit to them for effort but performance for me relates to the level of competition and how they play. Just like that record. The overall record of a team doesn't speak as loudly as the game against true contenders. The Cowboys seem to be able to put one game together against a good as, if not perceived to be better than, opponent each season but they can't sustain that.

The best thing about that game was they didn't quit on their HC and all of that "snake in the locker room" stuff has subsided.

I feel that one thing that has really helped this team, and it was a poor decision from the beginning, was bringing Nolan down to the sideline during the games. He's new to them and had reduced interaction with them in his first season, he needs to be accessible and responsive to them. He never should have been in the booth.

Our coaching actually looked like it was helping us in this game. And you’re right. We didn’t quit on our HC.

Defense has turned a corner once we released all of the FA dead weight who didn’t seem on board.

And we are seeing the difference with talent returning like Lee, Van Esch and Gregory. Not to mention a new presence from Gallimore.

This was first game we didn’t start with Dak that we were actually in the game. A game no one gave us a shot to win as worst home Dog in Cowboys history.

If our fans can’t appreciate that effort against all odds , I’m not sure when they would. It was their proudest performance under the circumstances thus far. We’ll see if this effort will continue.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm not sure which i find more disturbing; insults, trolling or squealing to the mods.

There’s a reason theres a report key right next to the other keys. They obviously want to know when there’s potential rule violations. I’m often reported on as well.

 

[Runwildboys]

I'm not sure which i find more disturbing; insults, trolling or squealing to the mods.

Poor grammar.

 

[jterrell]

First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

This is simply a bad take.
And by that I mean simple math fails here.

Dak was rated 7-10 this year and that is probably a bit low as we saw the offense with him versus without.
He's probably about 5.
The chance ANY QB in this draft hits top 5-6 within 3 years is about 1 in 4 or 5. So 20-25%.
The chance any ONE guy hits that mark tops out about 12-15%.
So you are taking a best case 15% shot to improve minimally.

Or you use the insane bevy of picks and elite draft position to bolster everywhere else on this team.

You take your franchise QB and built in elite offense and run it back with a highly re-enforced defense.

It's not really a hard decision to make.

You take Trevor Lawrence you are doing so without a LT of the future, without a good defense and with a questionable run game struggling behind a remodeled OL.
I can run down the top pick (1st overall) QBs of the last decade and about 0 of them appeal to me over Dak..

Burrow -- Good QB but not better than Dak and needs to develop around him.
Kyler -- Very intriguing guy but do I prefer a small, fast guy or a bigger, tougher guy? Give me the size and strength.
Baker -- no need to discuss
Jameis -- lol
Goff-- not better than Dak.
Andrew Luck -- probably peaked as high as Dak but very short-lived career.

So no, I am not gambling like that when I can simply take safe choice defenders to improve a bad defense.

 

[14theuterthumb]

First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?

Spot On, Coach.

 

[14theuterthumb]

Far better odds are to be had that if the Cowboys ended up with the first pick they will trade down a few spots and rake in the draft picks.

Yep. That’s Jerry playing poker with two 4s and and 6 high.

 

[cern]

There’s a reason theres a report key right next to the other keys. They obviously want to know when there’s potential rule violations. I’m often reported on as well.

There's a reason baby cribs have little rattles. Babies like them.

 

[14theuterthumb]

So what is Trevor Lawrence going to do more thank Dak this year? Come in and average 40 points? Dak literally was having a record breaking nfl season.

I'm not against drafting Lawrence or even Fields but we need to be realistic. Are we putting them out on field day 1? Will you be satisfied if this team isn't much better than this year given our O-line could still be beat up and if that defense doesn't get better?

I would say if Dak accepts around 35 milli we stick with him, but if he wants 40, draft a qb

Point one: He’s scoring 40 because this team always is always WAY BEHIND and shooting themselves in the foot. He’s are great guy, has definitely gotten better, just not upper echelon. Look at all the franchises pre and post QB when they got a QB......NO, SE, KC, NE, PIT, GB what teams are in the playoffs every year. Not every now again. I know another team that USED to be always in the playoffs when they had a high end QB. They are extremely rare. If you get a sniff of one you do whatever to go get it.
Point two: the high end QBs are ready now.

 

[Corso]

Most of those would be frustrated or disgruntled Cowboy fans which describes most of the fans I know who have followed the Cowboys since the original regime. But you obviously haven’t read all of my post or you’d have seen I have offered accolades on certain issues.

Personally, I’ve never been to an opponents fan forum. I’m not really interested. I have enough issues with my own team and franchise.

I’m not here to look for other Cowboy fans and cheer the team on. I have hundreds of personal fans to do so. I’m here to voice my dissatisfaction with how this team and franchise are being run and managed. This medium allows me to do so.

Took me a minute to "get" you when you first entered this board.
I'm glad I took the time to do so.

 

[14theuterthumb]

That is exactly what I am saying. That idiot said this morning that Jaylon Smith is the cornerstone of this D. That should have us wanting them to trade the entire team and the boat to KC for Mahomes.

Ya know, a great chef can make a decent meal out of ordinary ingredients but they will all tell you that you start with the best ingredients. The management of this team are more like fry cooks than chefs.

Well “I’m not trying to be cute here but um, well you know...” JJ the current Al Davis, face it boys 25+ and them some, I think it’s going to be a while yet.