The case for going for Lawrence

[GimmeTheBall!]

Here is the case..

He’s cheap and he’s a transcendent talent.

The alternative is an average, awkward bus driver who demands $45 million to wear the star.

 

[mattjames2010]

we can just leave it at this. having a top pick can propel the cowboys to fixing this mess. Getting a QB with it isnt the way. trading down and grabbing defense is. QB hasnt been the problem for years. Do they make mistakes yep they both have have but there has always been plenty of blame to go around. Whether it be Oline, Defense or coaching and at times its been all of those. The 2 buffoons picture in my previous post is a good place to start and finish.

If there is a QB we believe to be a franchise changer there in the top 5 when we pick, you have to go with the QB. It's not really about how you feel about Dak, it's about the contract that gets attached to him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I'll tell ya what. I believe that if the Cowboys were to draft a QB early, so long as they didn't take a guy who had obvious holes in character or intelligence, he would be successful in Dallas. I mean, we spend a tone of money on the Offense and I honestly don't expect that to change. MM is not a Defensive HC so I don't expect our spending habits to change significantly, in this area. However, that is something that would, in all likelihood, benefit a young QB. If the Cowboys came back healthy along the OL next year, and that's possible if they can get the LT position figured out, this OL could once again be very good. We have young talent at Center to replace Fredbeard and regardless of what so many think of Conner Williams, he is a pretty good LG if you play him in the traditional role of LG and do not try and play him like a RG. He can pull, he can block moving targets better then any other player on our team and his technique is getting better and better. Collins should be back and that solidifies RT so with the depth we have and a decent LT, a young QB could work, and I'd guess, would work in Dallas.

If you can sign Dak to a reasonable deal in terms of both money and length of contract, then I'd probably ride with Dak but if we are talking high 30s or 40, I'm drafting a QB, I'm working out a sign and trade deal for Dak and I'm moving on with a young kid. QBs in he NFL fail because of the situations they get drafted into, most times. It's not usually because they don't have the the natural abilities. I don't believe a guy we could draft at the position we are in would be a fail. Hell, we could trade down a little bit, draft a QB and probably get a LT as well, or a pass rusher in the first round. With the additional high end picks we get for trading down out of, say the third spot in the draft, we could get a really nice LB or pass rusher or DT or some combination of those. There are a lot of ways we could go in this draft if we didn't close our mind to all possibilities. In a sign and trade for Dak, we could get even more draft capitol. The rebuild or restock of talent would not be a matter of 3 to 5 years. It would be a season or two. All the young talent we brought in on cheap contracts would allow us to deal with a lot of the heavy contracts we currently have now and allow us to get on the other side of that in good cap shape.

That's really one of the most frustrating things, for me personally. It's why I've stepped way back this year on all things Cowboys. All the years fans stuck by this team, watched Ownership make really bad cap management decisions, hit rock bottom and basically suck at the bottom of the food chain for several seasons, live through the rebuild, watch the team waste Tony's entire career and then watch them get themselves backed into a corner on the cap once again, that's too hard to take. That's just being stupid and believing that the fans will just take it. Nope, that's not gonna happen with me personally. I'm not going to allow that, I'd rather not watch any football then support that crap.

So I'm in the camp where you conduct business that helps the team and not just certain players. I want to win, I'm tired of watching crappy teams and paying stupid prices to see a game or buy a ball cap. Times aren't getting easier for anybody who is not independently wealthy, in the near future. Money is only going to get tighter so if we aren't going to understand the dynamics around building a team that can win a championship, then I'd just rather save myself the time and money and play with the Grandkids.

JMO

 

[starfan1]

If there is a QB we believe to be a franchise changer there in the top 5 when we pick, you have to go with the QB. It's not really about how you feel about Dak, it's about the contract that gets attached to him.

Ill let you have the last word. I dont agree with you but Ill llet it be.

 

[CouchCoach]

I see both sides. The problem with drafting a QB is that, in order to get the best one, we'll have to give up picks and/or players to get him. Still, there are no guarantees his college skills will translate to the pros. How many times have we seen that? Then there's the fact that this defense clearly isn't good enough, and after giving up draft picks and/or players, it's very unlikely the defense will improve. We also need to booster the O-line some.
By the time we build both sides of the roster, it'll be time to pay this QB we drafted, assuming he's worth keeping.

On the other hand, Dak will be expensive to keep, but at least we have a good idea of who he is. There must be some draft picks that'll improve our defense over what it is now, so I think we're probably better off with Dak, but it's not an easy choice.

This thread isn't about whether Dak is good enough because I think he is. The question is management. Can they give him the team or does the QB of the DC have to overcome their failure?

This isn't a new situation, we had it with Romo and even going back to Aikman when FA came into being. If I was confident that they could deliver, I wouldn't be thinking this way. Dak is a better QB that they are in their respective positions.

This team has a VP of Personnel that actually brags about not being early players in FA and doesn't see the connection with the terrible defenses they field. Their FA philosophy is among the worst in the NFL and one of the reasons they're not a contender. Once bitten, twice shy doesn't work in FA.

And this that think these people are good in the draft puzzles the hell out of me. Consider the teams the last two seasons without trading for Cooper and Quinn.

All comes back to the same problem, THE problem. Nothing happens to these people when they fail, they usually make more money. Until we feel pain for our behavior, we will continue it.

 

[G2]

If there is a QB we believe to be a franchise changer there in the top 5 when we pick, you have to go with the QB. It's not really about how you feel about Dak, it's about the contract that gets attached to him.

Not when you have a franchise QB. Try to think about the teams weakest link.

 

[Runwildboys]

Well, I'll tell ya what. I believe that if the Cowboys were to draft a QB early, so long as they didn't take a guy who had obvious holes in character or intelligence, he would be successful in Dallas. I mean, we spend a tone of money on the Offense and I honestly don't expect that to change. MM is not a Defensive HC so I don't expect our spending habits to change significantly, in this area. However, that is something that would, in all likelihood, benefit a young QB. If the Cowboys came back healthy along the OL next year, and that's possible if they can get the LT position figured out, this OL could once again be very good. We have young talent at Center to replace Fredbeard and regardless of what so many think of Conner Williams, he is a pretty good LG if you play him in the traditional role of LG and do not try and play him like a RG. He can pull, he can block moving targets better then any other player on our team and his technique is getting better and better. Collins should be back and that solidifies RT so with the depth we have and a decent LT, a young QB could work, and I'd guess, would work in Dallas.

If you can sign Dak to a reasonable deal in terms of both money and length of contract, then I'd probably ride with Dak but if we are talking high 30s or 40, I'm drafting a QB, I'm working out a sign and trade deal for Dak and I'm moving on with a young kid. QBs in he NFL fail because of the situations they get drafted into, most times. It's not usually because they don't have the the natural abilities. I don't believe a guy we could draft at the position we are in would be a fail. Hell, we could trade down a little bit, draft a QB and probably get a LT as well, or a pass rusher in the first round. With the additional high end picks we get for trading down out of, say the third spot in the draft, we could get a really nice LB or pass rusher or DT or some combination of those. There are a lot of ways we could go in this draft if we didn't close our mind to all possibilities. In a sign and trade for Dak, we could get even more draft capitol. The rebuild or restock of talent would not be a matter of 3 to 5 years. It would be a season or two. All the young talent we brought in on cheap contracts would allow us to deal with a lot of the heavy contracts we currently have now and allow us to get on the other side of that in good cap shape.

That's really one of the most frustrating things, for me personally. It's why I've stepped way back this year on all things Cowboys. All the years fans stuck by this team, watched Ownership make really bad cap management decisions, hit rock bottom and basically suck at the bottom of the food chain for several seasons, live through the rebuild, watch the team waste Tony's entire career and then watch them get themselves backed into a corner on the cap once again, that's too hard to take. That's just being stupid and believing that the fans will just take it. Nope, that's not gonna happen with me personally. I'm not going to allow that, I'd rather not watch any football then support that crap.

So I'm in the camp where you conduct business that helps the team and not just certain players. I want to win, I'm tired of watching crappy teams and paying stupid prices to see a game or buy a ball cap. Times aren't getting easier for anybody who is not independently wealthy, in the near future. Money is only going to get tighter so if we aren't going to understand the dynamics around building a team that can win a championship, then I'd just rather save myself the time and money and play with the Grandkids.

JMO

While MM is an offensive minded coach, if the offense continues to be strong, he may decide to go with a mostly defensive draft, especially after seeing how inept this defense has been, up until this week. And even this week they were only good because they were lucky at times, and that ended in the 4th quarter.

 

[mattjames2010]

Not when you have a franchise QB. Try to think about the teams weakest link.

That franchise QB is wanting a big contract when it's looking like we are close to needing a rebuild....

 

[Proof]

The probability of success is far higher with Dak.

They get Dak plus a boat load of picks for trading down vs 1 college player.

The Cowboys were on an unprecedented pace of offensive production with Dak at QB despite have 2 udfa OTs. They had over 300 more passing yards than the #2 team for that stat. They were also #1 in total yards and #2 in points scored.

With a top 12 defense they would likely have been undefeated.

Basically. Not to me too. The continuity. Line will be healthier, D will be healthier and already showing promise along with a real preseason. Toss in some premium defenders from the draft and you got a stew going baby!

 

[reddyuta]

Delusion seems quite rampant nowadays.the Jets are getting Lawrence and thats .this is not even Conjecture but a fact and you better get used to it.

 

[Runwildboys]

This thread isn't about whether Dak is good enough because I think he is. The question is management. Can they give him the team or does the QB of the DC have to overcome their failure?

This isn't a new situation, we had it with Romo and even going back to Aikman when FA came into being. If I was confident that they could deliver, I wouldn't be thinking this way. Dak is a better QB that they are in their respective positions.

This team has a VP of Personnel that actually brags about not being early players in FA and doesn't see the connection with the terrible defenses they field. Their FA philosophy is among the worst in the NFL and one of the reasons they're not a contender. Once bitten, twice shy doesn't work in FA.

And this that think these people are good in the draft puzzles the hell out of me. Consider the teams the last two seasons without trading for Cooper and Quinn.

All comes back to the same problem, THE problem. Nothing happens to these people when they fail, they usually make more money. Until we feel pain for our behavior, we will continue it.

Ya gotta admit, with all the defensive players they brought in through FA this year, although most were duds, they did try to beef up the D. Hopefully, now that MM has a better idea of what he's dealing with on the offense, he'll be more comfortable drafting defense.

 

[G2]

That franchise QB is wanting a big contract when it's looking like we are close to needing a rebuild....

Most do. He's played at a high level his entire career, he deserves market value if he can work it out. Salary isn't the issue. And that's not an excuse, they had 4 years paying him nothing and we're under the cap limit. Now's the time to draft positions of need. Besides an O linemen, the only thing needing a rebuild is the defense. Clearly.

 

[G2]

Ya gotta admit, with all the defensive players they brought in through FA this year, although most were duds, they did try to beef up the D. Hopefully, now that MM has a better idea of what he's dealing with on the offense, he'll be more comfortable drafting defense.

They had plenty to spend and didn't bring a legitimate starter, just rotation guys. Maybe McCoy would have.

 

[starfan1]

This thread isn't about whether Dak is good enough because I think he is. The question is management. Can they give him the team or does the QB of the DC have to overcome their failure?

This isn't a new situation, we had it with Romo and even going back to Aikman when FA came into being. If I was confident that they could deliver, I wouldn't be thinking this way. Dak is a better QB that they are in their respective positions.

This team has a VP of Personnel that actually brags about not being early players in FA and doesn't see the connection with the terrible defenses they field. Their FA philosophy is among the worst in the NFL and one of the reasons they're not a contender. Once bitten, twice shy doesn't work in FA.

And this that think these people are good in the draft puzzles the hell out of me. Consider the teams the last two seasons without trading for Cooper and Quinn.

All comes back to the same problem, THE problem. Nothing happens to these people when they fail, they usually make more money. Until we feel pain for our behavior, we will continue it.

I don't think we are in a rebuild but retool. Alot of that needs to be on the defensive side of the ball. The only problem on offense is an aging line where it it pertains to starters. We need 3 or 4 players on the defense2 needs to be in secondary 1 needs to be in LB corps and obviously we need a moose on the Dline. Crawfords gone but we have some promising players and we can use a high pick to get even even more. Id take corner, safety, LB ,in that order is my preference but BPA will work.

Anyone who thinks its a QB regardless of the cost can overcome this is fooling themselves. You go out and get Lawrence yes hes cheaper but you arent winning squat without fixing the D

 

[Runwildboys]

They had plenty to spend and didn't bring a legitimate starter, just rotation guys. Maybe McCoy would have.

Aldon Smith is legit, although he hasn't seemed to do much in the past couple of games. There were others who had most people on this board needing to see the doctor for priapism, but they turned out to be less than expected. But what big name was available that would've been worth the money?

 

[quickccc]

To each his own to how those feel with Dak vs Trevor Lawrence or any other top 5 to 10 overall QB
but I’ve seen dak develop as a pure passer, elevated his team among the very top upper offensive teams, being No. 1 overall offense in the NFL is a helluva accomplishment – and basically we’ve reached that plateu two years in a row before Dak went down, I’ve seen Dak vastly improve enough to where he is carrying this team as a passer. Not a bus driver. Not a dink-dunk ball control

As the surrounding coaching improved ,.. as the player personnel improved Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Jarwin, etc. Dak is among the top passers in the game.
It’s the other aspects of the team -ala the defense- that has been a failing that hinders the team.
That’s forced Dak to get into scoring shoot outs this year. And who would ever think we’d be talking
Stephen Jones is giving this team a new dynamic when it comes to free agency approach and it’s gone both ways in plus and minuses – the Dak FA situation has ended up being a minus thus far.

Aside from Kirk Cousin with Wash. – NFL teams managed to re-sign their cornerstone franchise QBs to mega deals.
ATL matt ryan
Philly Wentz
Goff – Rams
Wilson Seattle
Watson – Houston

I believe Cleveland did not have the first overall pick but they did trade the No.2 overall to Philly to get the rights to Carlson Wentz.
I’ve heard several hypothetically say they would do a similar trade with swapping 1st rd picks …..receiving a 3rd rd in 2016 …..1st and 2nd rd in 2017, ….. nope not me.
I would want Three No.1 picks in consecutive years, ..a 1st rd and 2nd rd in 2021,.. An 1st rd and 4th rd in 2022.. and an first rounder in 2023.
If all you ask is two first rounders, while swapping 1st rounders, all you’re basically getting back is one first rounder.

 

[RonnieT24]

Let's look at it like this..

1) This team sucks and will need multiple upgrades at multiple positions to contend. The front office you guys keep telling us is manned by morons is somehow magically going to fix all those holes so that the newly drafted QB can succeed.. Even though they have spent over two decades showing they can't. But this one guy will fix all that.
2) As I keep repeating.. If the team signs Dak they have 5 problem areas.. which will need to be addressed via the draft and freea gency. If they don't sign Dak then they have 6 problem areas.. which will need to be addressed via the draft and free agency. And one of them just happens to be the most difficult problem area to solve in all of sports.

So giving this front office MORE problems to solve as opposed to fewer is your preferred stratagem? On what planet does that make sense. Dak has already proven that he can mask a TON of the flaws on this team. Remove half those flaws and this team is a contender. The magic cupie doll college kid isn't like to mask anything except these people's hatred of Dak Prescott.

 

[BlueStar22]

Here is the case..

He’s cheap and he’s a transcendent talent.

Is he?

 

[Aviano90]

I'd be happy with Lawrence, Fields, or Dak. Regardless of who we have, I don't think this team will win the SB with any of the 3 though.

 

[G2]

Aldon Smith is legit, although he hasn't seemed to do much in the past couple of games. There were others who had most people on this board needed to see the doctor for priapism, but they turned out to be less than expected. But what big name was available that would've been worth the money?

Very true, I forgot about him. He did fall off a bit.
I would have taken a stab at Earl Thomas, Ed Reed, Cory Littleton, and Anthony Castonzo.