The case for going for Lawrence

CouchCoach

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Ya gotta admit, with all the defensive players they brought in through FA this year, although most were duds, they did try to beef up the D. Hopefully, now that MM has a better idea of what he's dealing with on the offense, he'll be more comfortable drafting defense.
Not with those players, that's just numbers. They lucked out with Smith in the beginning or that FA group would be a total bust.

I don't know how much input he'll have in this draft or had in the last one. He seems to have a good relationship with McClay but he's not the problem. And if McC was actually the instigator with players like Dix and Poe in FA, they won't even ask his opinion.

Look at GB after McC left. They picked up 3 FA D players that were the difference because Rodgers had an off year and they still went to the NFCCG. They bring in another O minded HC yet they fixed the D.

Coaches are not the best judges of talent. Nick Hayden was Marinelli's pet cat and he liked Charleton and Hill. Who in the hell wanted these dead weight FA D players? Can't blame Marinelli for these.
 

Runwildboys

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Not with those players, that's just numbers. They lucked out with Smith in the beginning or that FA group would be a total bust.

I don't know how much input he'll have in this draft or had in the last one. He seems to have a good relationship with McClay but he's not the problem. And if McC was actually the instigator with players like Dix and Poe in FA, they won't even ask his opinion.

Look at GB after McC left. They picked up 3 FA D players that were the difference because Rodgers had an off year and they still went to the NFCCG. They bring in another O minded HC yet they fixed the D.

Coaches are not the best judges of talent. Nick Hayden was Marinelli's pet cat and he liked Charleton and Hill. Who in the hell wanted these dead weight FA D players? Can't blame Marinelli for these.
I assumed it was Nolan who wanted to take any defensive free agents we picked up. If that's the case, you can't really say the FO didn't try. They just listened to an idiot. I have no idea who's responsible for the choice of FA players, but I'm pretty sure if there was a splash player waiting, JJ would be willing to pay him. McClay seems to fare well in the draft, so hopefully they'll build the D there.
 

ThatJerryKid

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First off, let me say that I like Dak Prescott, I think he is a very good, not great, QB, and even the Dakaters have to notice the team with and without him which is exactly my point. The team needs someone better at that position unless you believe this team's management is capable of doing something they haven't done in decades, build a team around a QB.

They haven't done it with Prescott as well as his predecessor and even admitted that, failed to build around Romo. The fact that they lucked into both of these QB's should also be considered.

There are two questions regarding Trevor Lawrence, three if you consider why he doesn't become an English actor with that name. But the main two are is he better than what the Cowboys have now and what will it take to get him away from the two teams, JAX and NYJ, that have him in their sights?

Now, we must also consider the considerable team that Swinney has built around Lawrence, just as he did Watson. That must be taken into account when considering Fields as well.

But for the sake of argument and this thread, Lawrence is a better QB now than Prescott has developed into and he has nothing but upside. He is the first QB since P. Manning to deliver on being the most highly recruited QB in his class. If you don't agree with this, then this thread doesn't make sense to you but I have watched a lot of Lawrence play the position and consider him the real deal.

The second question is a tough one because if the Cowboys do not end up with the 1st pick, trading up for it will be very expensive in draft capital. If that can even be done. JAX ends up with that and they'd have a hard time passing on Lawrence since he's played in the neighborhood and if they're in that position, we'll see the same response as we saw from the CIN fans when the season became all about Burrow.

OK, you can let me have it now but I just don't think Prescott is good enough to lift this team beyond a mid level team. They ranked #1 in offense and we're 8-8 and what did they look like this season with Prescott at the helm? Is it a risk? Absolutely, but isn't giving Prescott a 4 or 5 X 35-40M a year even a bigger risk when you consider who the team builders are?

This is not about Dak Prescott, I think there are teams he could take to the Big Dance. This is about trying to overcome what's been holding this team back for two and half decades, management.

And if you want to consider something else, this HC had one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL and the most accurate one I have ever seen and he could only get one ring and ended up canned and that team doing better without him.

McC has this rep as a QB guru but who wouldn't with those QB's? The better the QB, the better the guru.

All comes down to one simple question. Do you want more of the same or do you want to take a chance? This is about change but what needs to be changed, management, will not so what's the next best thing?
If Lawrence is so great, why the hell would the Jets pass on him?
 

CouchCoach

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It's also a lot easier to play the hindsight game in FA because that dream team move that PHL made looked impressive in the beginning.

With all of the FA's, it's like going to a single's bar with nothing but freshly divorced people in there. Somebody didn't like something about all of those people.

The Cowboys have done better trading for players, let's call that the mate swapping party because they still liked something about them.
 

CouchCoach

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If Lawrence is so great, why the hell would the Jets pass on him?
I don't think they will pass on a QB but not sure it will be him. There are 3 QB's right now that I think are really close on draft boards with critical games left to play to sort that out. Where Lance falls, I am not sure.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Just opinion from watching both play and make the throws and plays. He is not flawless and may not even be the 1st QB taken in this draft.

There are always busts at QB in every draft, the Cowboys tried to trade up for one in Lynch. However, the entry of these young gun QB's like Mahomes, Murray, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Allen, Jackson and Watson can't be ignored. Some will include Prescott in that group and that is their opinion.

The other part of this is this QB happens to be up and wants in the neighborhood of 35-40M a year on a very top heavy offensive team with the cap.
Andre Ware threw some of the pretiest balls there was..... he was a top notch college QB, with the arm, stats, etc....so I assume this is the infamous "eye test" that you are speaking of, given your eyes are eyes of an expert!!

and you just said he may not even be the top QB taken and there are plenty of busts in the NFL....so I guess you pay Las Vegas a lot of visits since you like to gamble, than go for a sure thing....

until any of these QBs play in the NFL, everything is just heresy ....we know, for a fact Dak has been a successful NFL QB. we have no idea about Lawrence.

I am not ready to crown Murray, Tua, Herbert or Jackson (whose game is flawed). outside of Mahomes, none of those QBs including Watson or Allen have accomplished anything yet.

caps can easily be manipulated. having that kind of cap him doesn't exclude signing players we want, as it never has.

finding the right players is another story. getting an average mid level QB, at $25, provides a $10M extra on cap. where is a player that we can find for $10M that will be the difference maker.

this notion of cap hit, etc. is nothing but a fallacy that some tend to want to cling to.....
 

RonnieT24

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If they could even do that, I agree. Any team passing on the hottest draft prospect, maybe ever, would have some explaining to do to their fans.

How many times have we heard this about a draft prospect? And how many have panned out? Especially immediately? The last #1 overall pick to win a Super Bowl was Peyton Manning.. and he was drafted in 1998. And took 7 or 8 years to actually win anything. How many #1 overall pick QBs have been taken since him? 10? 12? Ironically his little brother is the only other one to win it all. Now if you guys were to tell me that Trevor Lawrence as Archie's love child I might be with you.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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I would say that the time it takes to develop Lawrence will be about equal to the amount of time it will take to build the defense. Might as well go with the rookie over Dak simply because in the few years needed to reload one QB will be entering his prime while the other will be starting to exit it.
and accomplish what? we have to fix this defense to make a run in the playoffs. otherwise, 5 years from now, everyone of these Dak Detractors will be sitting here, b!tching about the same thing, on the contract as they did with Romo and we still at best may become a one and done type of team. Until the philosophy of how we build a team changes, we are not going to win anything of significance
 

Aviano90

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How many times have we heard this about a draft prospect? And how many have panned out? Especially immediately? The last #1 overall pick to win a Super Bowl was Peyton Manning.. and he was drafted in 1998. And took 7 or 8 years to actually win anything. How many #1 overall pick QBs have been taken since him? 10? 12? Ironically his little brother is the only other one to win it all. Now if you guys were to tell me that Trevor Lawrence as Archie's love child I might be with you.
Tank for Tua was the talk of football for years. And then Joe Burrow played last lights out last year.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Delusion seems quite rampant nowadays.the Jets are getting Lawrence and thats .this is not even Conjecture but a fact and you better get used to it.

So interesting, our GM says that we aren't drafting a QB and he is telling the turth, yes?

Jets basically say the same thing, they have their guy but they are getting Lawrence?

How does that work, exactly?
 

stilltheguru

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It's also a lot easier to play the hindsight game in FA because that dream team move that PHL made looked impressive in the beginning.

With all of the FA's, it's like going to a single's bar with nothing but freshly divorced people in there. Somebody didn't like something about all of those people.

The Cowboys have done better trading for players, let's call that the mate swapping party because they still liked something about them.
Nothing about hindsight. Were just cheap. Theres 5 starting caliber upgrades to Chido and we wont get one of them I bet. But well get a guy wayyyy down the line. 2021 equivalent to Nolan Carroll and then get another rookie cb that takes a year to develop. Were dumb
 

ABQCOWBOY

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If Lawrence is so great, why the hell would the Jets pass on him?

Because they really like Sam Darnold and believe he is their future, or maybe they are just blowing smoke and they won't but either way, Lawrence isn't the only QB in this draft.
 

CouchCoach

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Andre Ware threw some of the pretiest balls there was..... he was a top notch college QB, with the arm, stats, etc....so I assume this is the infamous "eye test" that you are speaking of, given your eyes are eyes of an expert!!

and you just said he may not even be the top QB taken and there are plenty of busts in the NFL....so I guess you pay Las Vegas a lot of visits since you like to gamble, than go for a sure thing....

until any of these QBs play in the NFL, everything is just heresy ....we know, for a fact Dak has been a successful NFL QB. we have no idea about Lawrence.

I am not ready to crown Murray, Tua, Herbert or Jackson (whose game is flawed). outside of Mahomes, none of those QBs including Watson or Allen have accomplished anything yet.

caps can easily be manipulated. having that kind of cap him doesn't exclude signing players we want, as it never has.

finding the right players is another story. getting an average mid level QB, at $25, provides a $10M extra on cap. where is a player that we can find for $10M that will be the difference maker.

this notion of cap hit, etc. is nothing but a fallacy that some tend to want to cling to.....
I do not recall saying my eyes were the eyes of an expert, they are just my eyes. I watch football players and form opinions.

I used Lawrence as an example but we might be able to replace him with Fields or Trask before the college season concludes but the same will apply, we do not know until they play in the NFL if they can play in the NFL.

Not sure where Ware fits in this since he played in an offense that was foreign to the NFL. I never thought he would make it in the NFL but he was a great college QB.

And Dak has been a successful QB against mid and lower level competition, he has not done well against the better teams. He was off to a great stat start this season, except up against a D in LA where he could only manage 17. They did that 17 number a lot last year too. And lost those games.
 

Hawkeye0202

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The probability of success is far higher with Dak.

They get Dak plus a boat load of picks for trading down vs 1 college player.

The Cowboys were on an unprecedented pace of offensive production with Dak at QB despite have 2 udfa OTs. They had over 300 more passing yards than the #2 team for that stat. They were also #1 in total yards and #2 in points scored.

With a top 12 defense they would likely have been undefeated.

:clap::clap::clap:For me it's real simple .........you KNOW what you have in Dak.
 

RonnieT24

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Was there really much difference? I mean, seriously, was there?

None.. the offense kept humming along like Dak never left.. Kept scoring 33 points a game.. kept putting up 500 yards a game.. Receivers kept leading the league in yards after catch.. In fact they probably increased their lead because of the more accurate passes hitting them in stride..

Right?
 

reddyuta

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So interesting, our GM says that we aren't drafting a QB and he is telling the turth, yes?

Jets basically say the same thing, they have their guy but they are getting Lawrence?

How does that work, exactly?

i am sure Jerry is not passing on Lawrence if we somehow get to the no 1 pick,its pointless to even think about it since we are no getting no 1 pick.
 
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