The Case For OL

[gimmesix]

I'm also starting to think that all of the offensive linemen I think can really help this team (DeCastro, Glenn, Konz, Silatolu, Zeitler) are going to be gone before Dallas picks at 45.

It's a strong class and because of that, more interior linemen are going to be taken earlier than usual from the teens on IMO.

Our only hope in the second round might be Brandon Brooks.

 

[BAT]

another opinion

from Lance Zeirlein in Houston those who know this guy will know he is the know


32. NY Giants
Amini Silatolu
Guard | Midwestern State


Silatolu could end up going much earlier than this. One scout tells me "he is the best guard in the draft... better than the kid from Stanford." Silatolu's power would be a welcome commodity along the Giants offensive line as they look to re-establish their running game.


New offensive line coach Bill Callahan thought so much of this guy that he did a private workout with him after his college pro day. according to DC.com

O
Nice too know that there others who see this - even better, Callahan is one of them.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I'm also starting to think that all of the offensive linemen I think can really help this team (DeCastro, Glenn, Konz, Silatolu, Zeitler) are going to be gone before Dallas picks at 45.

It's a strong class and because of that, more interior linemen are going to be taken earlier than usual from the teens on IMO.

Our only hope in the second round might be Brandon Brooks.

Teams will probably be reaching for tackles because there are only 5 or 6 quality ones in the entire draft, and about half the league is looking or a starting tackle. Guys like Jeff Allen and Glenn might get drafted because teams think they can play tackle.

The true interior linemen aren't going to be reached for. There will be several of them to choose from #45 if that's where the Cowboys want to go.

 

[Hostile]

My case comes down to this, which line is better:

DE Hatcher, NT Ratliff, DE Lissemore/Spears

or

LT Smith, LG Livings/Nagy, C Costa/Kowalski, RG Bernadeau, RT Free

I trust the DL infinitely more, rather the front 7, because the LBs in a 3-4 should be factored into the equation.

 

[gimmesix]

Teams will probably be reaching for tackles because there are only 5 or 6 quality ones in the entire draft, and about half the league is looking or a starting tackle. Guys like Jeff Allen and Glenn might get drafted because teams think they can play tackle.

The true interior linemen aren't going to be reached for. There will be several of them to choose from #45 if that's where the Cowboys want to go.

Not sure. In looking at who is available, I could easily see the interior linemen coming off the board late in the first round and early in the second. With possibly four interior linemen being taken in the first (DeCastro, Glenn, Konz and Silatolu). Even Zeitler might be a consideration there.

 

[gimmesix]

I trust the DL infinitely more, rather the front 7, because the LBs in a 3-4 should be factored into the equation.

I agree, but I also think the top three among the DL showed their worth. The run defense was solid, Hatcher was outstanding at times when healthy and Lissemore stood out in a limited number of snaps.

I can't really say that about the interior of the offensive line. We know nothing about how Bernadeau and Livings will do, but they didn't prove their worth with their former teams, Costa had few good moments and we really don't know much about Nagy or Arkin, other than the fact both needed to get stronger (same with Kowalski, really).

 

[cowboysooner]

Teams will probably be reaching for tackles because there are only 5 or 6 quality ones in the entire draft, and about half the league is looking or a starting tackle. Guys like Jeff Allen and Glenn might get drafted because teams think they can play tackle.

The true interior linemen aren't going to be reached for. There will be several of them to choose from #45 if that's where the Cowboys want to go.

Interior linemen are going to fall because quarterbacks, tackles and pass rushers rise. Given the demand in the free agent market for corners and wide receivers they could be overdrafted too. This will push running backs, interior offensive linemen, tight ends and conventional linebackers way down. This happens almost every year. The lack of good tackles in this draft is something we have not paid attention to b/c the Cowboys are relatively set there.

 

[jterrell]

Same place you got yours. Because I don't agree with you, I don't know anything? I can watch film and see what happens on the field. A guy that plays better in Div 1 than the guy in Div 2 is, in my mind, better.

Sorry you had to be rude.

I dont disagree with you.
I disagree with your method and fake authority.

I believe DeCastro is better but I do not KNOW. I have seen DeCastro play a fair amount. I haven't watched the other kid enough to know him.

Watching actual full games with DeCastro he never gets beat but he also doesn't dominate. Not in Larry Allen pancake two guys fashion. He isn't as impressive in college as Andre Gurode was (IMHO) as a Buff. Gurode used to regularly drive people through the back of the end zone. But Gurode always struggled with mental parts of the game and DeCastro can call the OL plays and adjustments if need be apparently.

DeCastro is a very good player to be sure. But we haven't seen enough OGs go top 15 to say what one should look like.

 

[Hostile]

I dont disagree with you.
I disagree with your method and fake authority.

I believe DeCastro is better but I do not KNOW. I have seen DeCastro play a fair amount. I haven't watched the other kid enough to know him.

Watching actual full games with DeCastro he never gets beat but he also doesn't dominate. Not in Larry Allen pancake two guys fashion. He isn't as impressive in college as Andre Gurode was (IMHO) as a Buff. Gurode used to regularly drive people through the back of the end zone. But Gurode always struggled with mental parts of the game and DeCastro can call the OL plays and adjustments if need be apparently.

DeCastro is a very good player to be sure. But we haven't seen enough OGs go top 15 to say what one should look like.

Not sure what games you were watching then. He does dominate. I've seen him flatten more than one guy on the same play, and he's way more impressive than Gurode was.

 

[jterrell]

My case comes down to this, which line is better:

DE Hatcher, NT Ratliff, DE Lissemore/Spears

or

LT Smith, LG Livings/Nagy, C Costa/Kowalski, RG Bernadeau, RT Free

Let's see:

Smith(top 10 pick and pro bowl caliber kid at 21)
Livings(Lower end starter but consistently able to play and start 16 games)
C : Best of Costa/Kowalski/Nagy ?? for sure.
Bern/Arkin Top Back up on great OL.
Free: former LT and a guy we had locked in for 6 years at big money.

Hatcher - 1 dimensional guy who struggles to stay healthy
Ratliff - Declining but at times dominate player.
Spears/Lissemore - Either below average starter or very low draft pick with no real pass rush stats.

End of the day the best player in either group is easily Smith. Second most coveted is probably Doug Free. (Age and ability to play both OT spots over Ratliff's former superiority)
Worst player looks like whatever ends up at Center.
Neither OG spots are manned by world beaters but that OG duo is hardly to be bagged upon. The OG and DE groups are about even IMHO. Our OT situation is light years ahead of anything along the DL.

At worst this is a tie. Also you add in Callahan who is one of the most coveted OL coaches in football and I'd lean to fixing the DL all things being equal.

 

[cowboysooner]

Not sure what games you were watching then. He does dominate. I've seen him flatten more than one guy on the same play, and he's way more impressive than Gurode was.

He is one of the best guards I have ever seen in space, whether pulling, trapping or sealing a linebacker on the second level. He is not as good (or really doesn't have the film) of driving back the NFL level defensive tackle lined up across from him. Part of the problem is the lack of good dt's in the PAC 12. Cordy Glenn manhandled some NFL caliber guys at the senior bowl. I don't see a bunch of film where DeCastro does that.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Not sure what games you were watching then. He does dominate. I've seen him flatten more than one guy on the same play, and he's way more impressive than Gurode was.

Not sure about multiple guys on the same play but I have seen a couple of plays where he pulled and knocked the guy so good the defensive player looked like a tumble weed rolling backwards in the wind. :laugh2:

 

[InmanRoshi]

He's not as impressive as Gurode was in college. CU won the Big XII, was ranked in the Top 5 in the polls and averaged over 200 yards rushing a game just by running Chris Brown and Bobby Purify behind Gurode on almost every play.

 

[jterrell]

Not sure what games you were watching then. He does dominate. I've seen him flatten more than one guy on the same play, and he's way more impressive than Gurode was.

I watched ND, OKST and at least a couple more.

Perhaps he was better in the PAC 12 games against those squishy West Coasters

My daughter wants to go play basketball for Stanford so I have a soft spot for them.

I watched Gurode absolutely abuse UT in college. It was embarrassing to even be from the state of Texas watching that game.

 

[cowboysooner]

I watched ND, OKST and at least a couple more.

Perhaps he was better in the PAC 12 games against those squishy West Coasters

My daughter wants to go play basketball for Stanford so I have a soft spot for them.

I watched Gurode absolutely abuse UT in college. It was embarrassing to even be from the state of Texas watching that game.

Gurode owned a bunch of NFL dt's from Nebraska too. He was a great run blocking guard.

 

[Sasquatch]

I watched ND, OKST and at least a couple more.

Perhaps he was better in the PAC 12 games against those squishy West Coasters

My daughter wants to go play basketball for Stanford so I have a soft spot for them.

I watched Gurode absolutely abuse UT in college. It was embarrassing to even be from the state of Texas watching that game.

Gurode was a monster at UC. I was so excited when we got him.

 

[btcutter]

Based on past drafts in the past OL except T tends to get pushed down into the 2nd round while DL tends to get over drafted in the 1st round especially toward end of round 1.

It would be harder to get a quality DL vs OL in the 2nd in general. I don't want us to be reaching for a DL in the 2nd for 3rd round quality.

That being said. We needs to set our board and trust/follow it. Don't talk our way into drafting a lesser players just because....that just spells trouble.

This team has too may holes to be passing on the highest rated player on our board.

 

[Zaxor]

yeah I was glad we got Gurode also he was such a road grader in college...

and like I said I have seen DeCastro pull and bowl over people 100 or so lbs lighter than himself.... also seen him get no push what so ever on some guys... Good thing about it the draft is a few days away and soon we all will get to see how they all turn out like Hos said its Christmas in April

 

[jterrell]

Gurode owned a bunch of NFL dt's from Nebraska too. He was a great run blocking guard.

I have never seen a more dominate OG in college. He stood out in games long before he was ever on the radar for me as a potential draftee. I was rooting against CU every time and he was just nasty.

DeCastro I seldom noticed. Eyes were drawn to Luck obviously. I still have the OKST bowl game on tape and when I watched the replay focusing on DeCastro he was never beaten but he also didn't look like a Gurode or Larry Allen. He looked more like Moose Johnson. He was always out on screens or swing passes and tosses. A few times he was out ahead and plays were made behind him but no one went through him ever. Inline he didn't get beaten but generally stonewalled his guy not moving him or allowing him to move.

At the Senior Bowl he couldn't handle edge rushers in drills. But he was again clean in the game. He is a true pulling OG. Probably even a prototypical one for most offenses. I do believe he is a top 15 player but after my positional adjustment I wouldn't draft him til 18-22.

I would take him before Tannehill and any WR in this class however. I'd have to seriously debate either him or Barron.

 

[cowboysooner]

Based on past drafts in the past OL except T tends to get pushed down into the 2nd round while DL tends to get over drafted in the 1st round especially toward end of round 1.

It would be harder to get a quality DL vs OL in the 2nd in general. I don't want us to be reaching for a DL in the 2nd for 3rd round quality.

That being said. We needs to set our board and trust/follow it. Don't talk our way into drafting a lesser players just because....that just spells trouble.

This team has too may holes to be passing on the highest rated player on our board.

This is why you can end up with a 1st round quality defensive lineman or safety at 14 and a 1st round quality player at guard at 45. It does not work in reverse because 10-12 de & olb will be off the board at 45 and about 2 guards.

If you want a DE after about pick 45, it become drafting an injury risk or character concern for the most part.