The Cost of Meaningless Close Wins

[fivetwos]

I'm not sure Dallas would have lost the Cincinnati game even if they did try to lol.

Cincy would have kept fumbling the game away exactly as they did.

 

[fivetwos]

That Pederson assessment is not accurate.

I don't buy that at all.

I was literally in Philly the next day and the fan fallout was insane...even for them.

You can't tell me he decided on his own to pull that mess.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Yeah, because the GOAT was the player that was injured. They went 11-5 without him as you stated, so they were already loaded and well coached.

We are not neither loaded or well coached. We was 1-3 with Dak and finished 6-10. There is a difference there.

True, but as the future is unknown, we'll have to wait a few years to see how it works out...

 

[JoeKing]

Not really, You don't play the game based on draft order. This notion that unless you can win the SB you may as well just tank the season is a load of crap. You play the game and get paid you then you should be expected to go out and play hard and fight to win. The rest of this garbage if fan talk not worth a damn thing.

You are totally missing the point. No one said, "that unless you can win the SB you may as well just tank." That's a strawman argument. I have no problem with the team trying to win games but if there is a point in the season where they aren't real contenders despite making the playoffs, they shouldn't hurt themselves by trying. At least better yourself for the next season's draft. If they have a team that can contend in the playoffs then yes, try to win every game. You don't seem to understand I agree with that.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I actually don’t like this current group of players but I’m still cheering for the laundry they wear.

This is my least favorite group of Cowboys since I’ve been a fan and watching them is a chore.

Yep, players always come and go, to root for players instead of the team means you have to constantly find more players to root for, and while I can cheer on for individual players, they don't supersede the team as an institution. What are you supposed to do if somebody asks you what NFL team you root for, say "I root for Dak Prescott, et al"? Somebody that doesn't follow the Cowboys is liable to say "?".

Not saying it's wrong, if somebody wants to follow players over the team, fine with me. Just not my cup of tea....

 

[fivetwos]

Whete were they going anyway? Even if they managed to’win’ the worst division in football and gain an undeserved playoff appearance, what would happen when they got there?

We all know the answer.

Fully agree, but I wouldn't have expected any FO to make a conscious decision to pull the plug on a home playoff game.

Besides, the teams they beat were legit worse than they were at that time. They would have had to really try to lose to the point of where it was obvious.

Philly looked to me like the only ones who tried to lose and ended up with a circus.

If we were talking about the first pick and the next Peyton Manning, then sure, but we are talking about a few slots in a draft with a weak top 10.

 

[DandyDon52]

Cowboys were trying to win all those games, they just were coached that poorly most of the season.
Some of the players coasted, and some I think tanked a little on their own to help dak get his contract.

Teams can tank if coaches want to sabotage things, but even then they may still win regardless.

 

[Doomsday101]

You are totally missing the point. No one said, "that unless you can win the SB you may as well just tank." That's a strawman argument. I have no problem with the team trying to win games but if there is a point in the season where they aren't real contenders despite making the playoffs, they shouldn't hurt themselves by trying. At least better yourself for the next season's draft. If they have a team that can contend in the playoffs then yes, try to win every game. You don't seem to understand I agree with that.

and that is your view. I expect coaches to coach the game to win, I expected paid professionals to play to win. Those who disagree fine. I do not buy into this loser crap of it is ok to lose. Frankly given all the injuries Dallas had we were already using backups what else could they do expect not step out on the field at all. As for players not trying? If a player is on the field and he is not trying and putting in all out effort then I don't want him on this team.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Would have you had them tank? 11 and 5 is usually good enough to get into the playoffs. In fact, it's rare not to with that record. They had a tough break in Brady getting hurt, but they made the best of it. You never know what will happen. Remember the 1999 Rams when their star QB, Trent Green, got hurt, they had to turn to an ex Arena League QB in Kurt Warner. You never know what could happen. That 11 and 5 Patriots team may not have made the playoffs, but they didn't know that's what would happen. They did their best, and that record with a journeyman QB is quite an accomplishment. It would have been ridiculous for Belicheck to have said to this team, "We don't have Tom, so just tank." That would have been so absurd it could only happen in some kind of parody movie. Professional athletes don't do that -- or if there are a few who do, they don't belong in the league.

The damage to their winning mentality would have been way worse than an 11 and 5/no playoffs year was -- and the fact is they're the most successful team in the league of the past two decades. A single non-playoff year doesn't appear to have hurt them too much. I strongly suspect a deliberate tank year for a high draft choice would have hurt their winning tradition much, much more. A loser mentality is the biggest enemy of any team.

I have to wonder about teams like the Jets, in the realm of a "loser mentality". You would think a SB win, especially one where they beat a team that was what, a 21 POINT favorite, they'd have gone on to a winning streak like the Dolphins, Cowboys, Steelers, etc. But winning's hard in the NFL, a SB win helps in the short term but sustaining a winning team takes lots of things, including luck. Namath's continuing injuries certainly a big part of that. 10-4 the year after the SB win, but then what? ELEVEN straight non-winning seasons, no SB appearances since. I to think the streak of losing seasons somehow is partly responsible for the 51 years of no SBs. When players come in the weight of that has to impact their play, this "team is cursed" (lol) in the back of their mind.

Maybe not, just something to think about during the off season...

 

[JoeKing]

and that is your view. I expect coaches to coach the game to win, I expected paid professionals to play to win. Those who disagree fine. I do not buy into this loser crap of it is ok to lose. Frankly given all the injuries Dallas had we were already using backups what else could they do expect not step out on the field at all. As for players not trying? If a player is on the field and he is not trying and putting in all out effort then I don't want him on this team.

I get what you are saying. It's a mentality to win at all costs. Then if you still lose you don't have to hang your head in shame. You gave it your best shot. For those with that mentality, tanking is a shameful act, with no honor about it.

 

[Doomsday101]

I get what you are saying. It's a mentality to win at all costs. Then if you still lose you don't have to hang your head in shame. You gave it your best shot. For those with that mentality, tanking is a shameful act, with no honor about it.

Throwing a game is something I do not believe in period. I can accept a loss but as I said I look to remove players who are playing for a paycheck as Irvin said was the case before Jimmy got there, guys did not care about winning they just wanted a payday. I will say if I knew my team was out of it and I had some guys I wanted to having playing time to be able to see them in real game action then fine but I expect my player to play hard and with the intent of winning.

 

[CowboyinMD]

and that is your view. I expect coaches to coach the game to win, I expected paid professionals to play to win. Those who disagree fine. I do not buy into this loser crap of it is ok to lose. Frankly given all the injuries Dallas had we were already using backups what else could they do expect not step out on the field at all. As for players not trying? If a player is on the field and he is not trying and putting in all out effort then I don't want him on this team.

Seriously, this is why we need a lottery system for the first 10-12 picks in the first round.

If that were the case, tanking wouldn't even be an afterthought.

Why hasn't the draft lottery become a thing in the NFL yet? Just the first round, first 10-12 picks, and that ought to do it and settle once and for all any talk of tanking.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

and that is your view. I expect coaches to coach the game to win, I expected paid professionals to play to win. Those who disagree fine. I do not buy into this loser crap of it is ok to lose. Frankly given all the injuries Dallas had we were already using backups what else could they do expect not step out on the field at all. As for players not trying? If a player is on the field and he is not trying and putting in all out effort then I don't want him on this team.

The team is one thing, the players another. After trying to win for years, ever since Pee Wee or such football, through high school and college, to suddenly "coast" and lose is so foreign to MOST players. No doubt a few are in it for the money, but I suspect very few. The game demands too much from them, both physically, emotionally and socially (time missed with family, etc.) Money only goes so far.

The owner/gm/coach may think it's better to lose late in the season when it's evident the team isn't going anywhere even if they get in the playoffs, but they're also used to winning, or they wouldn't be in the position they are, being a coach in the NFL is also competitive, always some other coach waiting to get their spot. They're not going to chance getting fired for the sake of an unknown future. Saying "lose so we get a better draft position" is rife with possibilities that are very bad, as well as good.

Two viewpoints, I understand the reasoning behind both, neither is the "right" answer...

 

[Doomsday101]

The team is one thing, the players another. After trying to win for years, ever since Pee Wee or such football, through high school and college, to suddenly "coast" and lose is so foreign to MOST players. No doubt a few are in it for the money, but I suspect very few. The game demands too much from them, both physically, emotionally and socially (time missed with family, etc.) Money only goes so far.

The owner/gm/coach may think it's better to lose late in the season when it's evident the team isn't going anywhere even if they get in the playoffs, but they're also used to winning, or they wouldn't be in the position they are, being a coach in the NFL is also competitive, always some other coach waiting to get their spot. They're not going to chance getting fired for the sake of an unknown future. Saying "lose so we get a better draft position" is rife with possibilities that are very bad, as well as good.

Two viewpoints, I understand the reasoning behind both, neither is the "right" answer...

According to Michael Irvin he had a list of names of guys who losing did not bother them in the least and that list was handed over to Jimmy and those players were gone. As I mentioned I get when a coach puts in certain backups to give them playing time to get a chance to see them in live action to help determine it that player has a future on the team but I expect all players to play hard with the intent of winning.

 

[heir]

The Cowboys should have lost their games against Atlanta (week 2), the Giants (week 5), and the Vikings (week 11). The Cowboys could of had the 3rd overall pick. They could have received the same haul the Dolphins did for the 3rd pick. In this scenario Surtain or Horn would likely be available at 12. Plus they would have 2 extra 1st round picks + an extra 3rd round pick in the future. They could have also selected a QB at 3 and trade Dak. A ridiculous botched onside kick + signing Andy Dalton cost this franchise for years to come.

You might have had me if you listed weeks 16 and 17. To say a team should tank game in week 2, 5 and 11 is a huge stretch.

 

[JoeKing]

It's some out-of-the-box thinking to trying to convince these competitor types that sometimes not being competitive is the better course of action. They just don't buy it. It's a concept that doesn't sit right with them.

 

[Stash]

I don't buy that at all.

I was literally in Philly the next day and the fan fallout was insane...even for them.

You can't tell me he decided on his own to pull that mess.

No, not at all. What I am saying is that his firing wasn't the result of that decision or 'falling on the sword'.

 

[Stash]

Fully agree, but I wouldn't have expected any FO to make a conscious decision to pull the plug on a home playoff game.

Besides, the teams they beat were legit worse than they were at that time. They would have had to really try to lose to the point of where it was obvious.

Philly looked to me like the only ones who tried to lose and ended up with a circus.

If we were talking about the first pick and the next Peyton Manning, then sure, but we are talking about a few slots in a draft with a weak top 10.

We're potentially talking about pick 3, which the Dolphins just traded away for several first round draft picks. (3 I believe). They will have the overall ammo to completely rebuild their team in a few years. That could have been us.

 

[Whirlwin]

The Cowboys should have lost their games against Atlanta (week 2), the Giants (week 5), and the Vikings (week 11). The Cowboys could of had the 3rd overall pick. They could have received the same haul the Dolphins did for the 3rd pick. In this scenario Surtain or Horn would likely be available at 12. Plus they would have 2 extra 1st round picks + an extra 3rd round pick in the future. They could have also selected a QB at 3 and trade Dak. A ridiculous botched onside kick + signing Andy Dalton cost this franchise for years to come.

Anybody who agrees with you. You can’t possibly understand what integrity means. You don’t get something for nothing. Entitlement LMAO

 

[Whirlwin]

Salud!!!

This just makes me sick. The entitlement of getting something for nothing. I totally agree with you my cowboy brother