The Cost of Not Signing Dak (lengthy)

[CouchCoach]

All I know is just that with Prescott under center we can expect to score 25 plus points a game.

No free agent acquisition is going to sniff that. Nobody we draft 10th is going to sniff that.

If we can trade into the top five then it is unlikely that we will achieve that and the cost to move up to there is going to be astronomical.

If we sign Prescott then the cost is likely going to be not being able to resign Michael Gallup. Once we can get past Elliott and Smith's contracts I don't see being able to resign our draft picks and developed players as being a problem.

the other cost is we're not going to be able to be players and veteran free agency and to be frank I don't care.

Gallup was gone when they took Lamb. If not him, then Cooper.

If the Cowboys were at 50% of the cap going in, they're not going to be early FA players no matter how much money they have to spend.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

The cost of signing him is kissing the next half decade good bye.

Plus, you'll lose half your roster to free agency soon, and guess what? You get to negotiate with him again in 3-4 years.

He just isn't that good. Not worth any of this drama.

Stop.....over the next 3 years, there's only ONE player ( Gallup ) we say will likely receive a 2nd contract offer. The rest either still have something to prove or more than likely walking. You and Catch 17 keep pushing this narrative about Dak's contract will so-called bankrupt our ability to sign or keep free agents and it's not true, just not. Hell, even you got rid of Dak and brought in another QB, at some point, you're still going to pay him just as much, if not more if he takes the team where we wanna go. That's why the narrative makes no sense. Based on what you all are saying, we can't have any more than a cheap low-level, or rookie QB in order to keep free agents.

 

[CouchCoach]

I disagree in that I believe elite QBs dont need need a totally outstanding cast surrounding them.
I dont believe Jones on KCs d line or Honey badger in their secondary was the difference. The SB game I watched boiled down to poor offensive strategy by Shanahan and his neglect of the run combined with Mahommes willing his offense to victory. Came up clutch in the clutches of moments. San Francisco's defense last year was championship level but when the chips were down Jimmy G misses open opportunities while Mahommes hung in there after starting slowly to show his true elite stature when he was most needed.

My opinion. I do not think Dan could do any better that Lamar with Bmore or Tannehill with TN. I think he would put up similar numbers as Cousins in Minn but not be the difference in playoff wins/Super Bowl run. This same opinion spies to if Dak were on Atlanta. Mayfield is just as good if not better.

Brees, Brady Rodgers is all a no. Wilson as well. And that's with their advancing age. Don't think he could have done any better than Rivers against the Bills last week either.

Josh Allen is soon to be making my list of no provided next year he continues his upward trend. Watson is a no. Guys like Goff, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G, Cousins and Ryan whom I've mentioned along with Dak are glorified game managers who need lots of support. I lump Dak into this group.
I do not believe in paying just to continue at a 6 to 9 win level of wins which is where this team is at without 6 to 8 new starters on defense and possibly even 2 tackles on offense.
Dak would not make a difference unless there was a time travel back to 2016 and that olines dominance and that version of Zeke...
And yet still that wasn't enough defense even then.

Just my opinion. We all got 'em. You and Dak Presgoat are the only 2 pro Dak guys here who at least can speak logically and show a little respect while debating. For this I am appreciative. No worries. Difference of opinion.

Cheers.

You make some valid points and one I would add, Mahomes with any other HC/OC is just a flashy good QB. That is the perfect HC/QB marriage in the NFL. Better even than Belichick/Brady or Payton/Brees and it has taken a little time but Rodgers is a lot better with LaFleur than he was McCarthy.

 

[DandyDon52]

to rebuild you need to be bad, get high draft picks several years in a row.....in order to rebuild you need to tank. trade away your good pieces and accumulate draft picks.

we got the 10th pick because Dak got injured (first time in his career missing games). defense was HISTORICALLY bad under nolan. and we got Dalton to get us down to 10th pick.

I think you fit your avatar lol.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The offensive line is deteriorating, Zeke is slowing, and defensive players typically need a few years to develop. Even if we hit on this defensive draft, by the time they produce the offensive line will need to be rebuilt. I think we are years away again, but do appreciate the respectful disagreement.

Outside of Smith, who we do need to replace sooner than later. We drafted a center that made all rookie team and continuously graded as one of the best OL run blockers. We have williams and Martin. Collins had surgery, but should be back next year. the two back ups who played extensively this year got a lot of valuable playing time and got better, much better over time. we also have McGovern who filled in for Martin. so I don't see the deterioration as you said, except as I said the LT spot. That would be the only offensive position I would advocate for us to draft. In fact I am on record saying if we end up with top 3 or 4 picks and Sewell is there, you take him and never look back.

Zeke also suffered from the same OL issues this year that the QBs did. given the QB situation after Dak went down, teams started to focus more on run defense against us, since the threat of down field attack was gone with Dalton. and between him and pollard we should be OK, I think in fact Pollard will extend Zekes career by allowing him to take less snaps.

I don't think we are years away. I think this team was capable of at least 8-8 with Dak. if we have a good defensive draft, implement a more reasonable scheme compared to what Nolan was trying to do, we should continue to be competitive next year. I don't want to sign any defensive FA this year, but focus on draft, implement Quinn's system, see where we are and then 2022 perhaps sign a FA to fill a gap we would still have.

 

[DandyDon52]

dak dak dak lol here we go again !
I wish the jones boys would read here, they might learn something.

I dont want to waste my time debating it anymore.

Jerry will more than likely sign dak and overpay, or franchise him again.

So why debate it?

At least they got a new DC and DL coach, so that should help.

Next season it will be the circus again and so forth for years to come.
you guys need to stop thinking about being a championship team, and just be entertained by the circus jerry presents each year, that is all there is,
entertainment.

Our players ? look at all the celebrating and dancing over little feats during the year, and then wound up losing many of those games and couldnt even make the playoffs, or beat the giants that last game lol, they are pathetic.

 

[CouchCoach]

Stop.....over the next 3 years, there's only ONE player ( Gallup ) we say will likely receive a 2nd contract offer. The rest either still have something to prove or more than likely walking. You and Catch 17 keep pushing this narrative about Dak's contract will so-called bankrupt our ability to sign or keep free agents and it's not true, just not. Hell, even you got rid of Dak and brought in another QB, at some point, you're still going to pay him just as much, if not more if he takes the team where we wanna go. That's why the narrative makes no sense. Based on what you all are saying, we can't have any more than a cheap low-level, or rookie QB in order to keep free agents.

What's happening is that it's all getting laid on the QB's contract when it's the collective effect of the RB, WR, DE and LB's contracts that are creating this cap issue.

The real issue is that some just don't feel Prescott is deserving of a top 5 QB contract because he's not top 5 and that has nothing to do with it.

The NFL went from 20M being a shocker right past 30M to 40+M now in a very short period of time. Mahomes did not set the ceiling because it's not set by the best QB, it is set by what teams have to pay to keep their QB. Allen is going to be a shocker and Murray and even Mayfield and I'd take Prescott over him all day long.

 

[OmerV]

Disagree. He wanted more than what was fair.

That's a matter of opinion, but it doesn't seem to me like asking for something in the neighborhood or just slightly above what Wentz and Goff got was unreasonable in terms of where the market was. But regardless, he obviously does want security, he just doesn't want to do it for less than he thinks his value is.

 

[OmerV]

The bad part about no Dak is that we could end up with much worse. The good part about no Dak is that we could end up with something better.

On that topic, one of the obvious questions to ask is which is more likely. There are a lot more QBs in the world worse than Dak than there are better.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I disagree in that I believe elite QBs dont need a totally outstanding cast surrounding them.
I dont believe Jones on KCs d line or Honey badger in their secondary was the difference last yr for KC. The SB game I watched boiled down to poor offensive strategy by Shanahan and his neglect of the run combined with Mahommes willing his offense to victory. Came up clutch in the clutchest of moments. San Francisco's defense last year was championship level but when the chips were down Jimmy G misses open opportunities while Mahommes hung in there after starting slowly to show his true elite stature when he was most needed.

My opinion. I do not think Dak could do any better than Lamar with Bmore or Tannehill with TN. I think he would put up similar numbers as Cousins in Minn but not be the difference in playoff wins/Super Bowl run. This same opinion applies to if Dak were on Atlanta as they have some talent at wide out. Mayfield is just as good if not better.

Brees, Brady, Rodgers is all a no. Wilson as well. And that's with their advancing age. Don't think he could have done any better than Rivers against the Bills last week either.

Josh Allen is soon to be making my list of no provided next year he continues his upward trend. Watson is a no. Guys like Goff, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G, Cousins and Ryan whom I've mentioned along with Dak are glorified game managers who need lots of support. I lump Dak into this group.
I do not believe in paying just to continue at a 6 to 9 win level of wins which is where this team is at without 6 to 8 new starters on defense and possibly even 2 tackles on offense.
Dak would not make a difference unless there was a time travel back to 2016 and that olines dominance and that version of Zeke...
And yet still that wasn't enough defense even then.

Just my opinion. We all got 'em. You and Dak Presgoat are the only 2 pro Dak guys here who at least can speak logically and show a little respect while debating. For this I am appreciative. No worries. Difference of opinion.

Cheers.

I never said Elite QBs need strong supporting cast to be good. in fact I agreed with that. I just think there are at most 2 or 3 Elite QBs, with everybody else being good and the good ones know how to use the weapons they have and maximize them. the good ones produce with good supporting cast.

Jones in KC was huge. He was drafted by them and there was no way they would let him leave. in fact teams will hold on to their own top players and FA and not allow them to hit the market. That's why its extremely difficult to build through FA since injured, old or headcases hit the FA market.
KC signed Honey badger and he was their one big FA signing, so they didn't build their defense through high priced FAs, they drafted well and sign one big key player, they had a couple of key mid level FAs that they evaluated correctly and signed, where we tend to miss on those evaluations. we signed several mid level FAs, but they were all bad to awful.

I like Dak more than Lamar Jackson, because I don't like running QBs. I like Dak better than tannehill, given Tannehill threw for less than 100 yards, twice in the playoffs and they won because of Henry and their defense and great coaching. Tannehill is the ultimate definition of a bus driver. I never liked Cousins, that was Minn. mistake signing him, agree with you there. Mayfield is inaccurate, throws too many interceptions and still has problems reading defenses. he had an average year this year, where they told him we don't need you to win games, just don't make mistakes.....their strong running game and their defense is what drove their team this year. not mayfield. he is not able to lift anyone around him and given he had Landry and Beckam and Hooper, their passing attack was very average this year and last year.

based on what you just posted, it seems you are advocating for us to tank. thus perhaps we should start trading all our assets to accumulate draft picks, hoping to have top 2,3 pick and the right QB is available for us to draft...

I don't see any better alternative to Dak, not in the draft where we are picking this year and the available QBs and not in FA (oh God please tell me you are not advocating for Dalton).

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think you fit your avatar lol.

what is an avatar? LOL

and I like you avatar

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

OK guys, time for me to start my weekend. I've got a brand new Grandbaby Boy to go see for the first time.

Everybody, have a great weekend but be safe. Be careful and have a great weekend!

congratulations to you and the family....happy for you

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

By the time you get out of it, Gallup, Collins, Diggs, Lamb and others could be gone because you couldn't pay them.

we have 7 of the largest position contracts on the team right now, with a couple of them to be gone by next year most probably....Diggs, Lamb aren't up for new contracts for a few years...... Collins is already under contract. Gallup is not up for contract until next year.

so we were able to have 7 large contracts on the team, with Dak at 32M this year. so the notion of not being able to pay those players 4 or 5 years down the line is plain ridiculous.

 

[Jimbo69]

If we pay Dak silly cash this team will continue, much like it has done for 25 years to be an irrelevance to the discussion on potential SB winners. However it continue to fascinate the media. JJ will of course pay Dak silly money and this board will continue to moan about draft picks, crappy FA, useless coaches and of course the owners.
The thing is that this team needs the media and JJ knows it, let's face it the record does not warrant it. However a few more seasons of nothing and that might change.
Dont worry though, we hopefully ( please god) can have this argument in 12 months time after another season without any real success. Goody.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

All I know is just that with Prescott under center we can expect to score 25 plus points a game.

No free agent acquisition is going to sniff that. Nobody we draft 10th is going to sniff that.

If we can trade into the top five then it is unlikely that we will achieve that and the cost to move up to there is going to be astronomical.

If we sign Prescott then the cost is likely going to be not being able to resign Michael Gallup. Once we can get past Elliott and Smith's contracts I don't see being able to resign our draft picks and developed players as being a problem.

the other cost is we're not going to be able to be players and veteran free agency and to be frank I don't care.

I don't think we will not resign Gallup unless we feel that Lamb and the other WRs are good enough.....Gallup is here next year. I believe by the end of next year Smith, Smith, Zeke are no longer cowboys, which gets rid of three very large contracts from the team. Right now we have 7 of the highest position player contracts on the team, with Cooper, Smith, Smith, Lawrence, Collins, Martin, Zeke and had Dak at 32M. contracts get reworked all the time, and yes at some point you have to deal with the dead money.

and 2021 cap is an issue for the entire league. so I expect most teams have to get rid of some veterans, rely on cheap young guys and see where 2022 falls, as its expected to go back to close to normal.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Nice post. Thanks for sharing. At this point I'm not sure it matters if Dak leaves or stays. While I agree items 1, 2, and 3 are important, they are all neutralized by item number 4. A QB can only overcome so much.

Aikman had a far better TEAM around him than any QB since (I don't want to hear about Pro Bowlers, I'm talking about TEAM - this includes coaches as well as cohesion). He also had a top 10 defense when he won rings.

The only time this team has had any real leadership has been under Landry, Jimmy, and Parcells. Jerry fired Landry, was miserable with Jimmy, and only bit the bullet on Parcells to get his stadium deal done. When the Tuna left what did we get? A dish rag happy to get another HC gig (Wade), which is exactly what we have again with McCarthy. In between Jerry wasted a decade waiting for Garrett to make him look like a genius.

Sign Dak, don't sign Dak, this team is only going so far either way. It's a rudderless ship steered by guys who can't decide what kind of defense they even want much less know how to put one together.

That about sums up the last 30 years lol...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If we pay Dak silly cash this team will continue, much like it has done for 25 years to be an irrelevance to the discussion on potential SB winners. However it continue to fascinate the media. JJ will of course pay Dak silly money and this board will continue to moan about draft picks, crappy FA, useless coaches and of course the owners.
The thing is that this team needs the media and JJ knows it, let's face it the record does not warrant it. However a few more seasons of nothing and that might change.
Dont worry though, we hopefully ( please god) can have this argument in 12 months time after another season without any real success. Goody.

why paying Dak would stop you from becoming superbowl team? where in fact he gives us the best chance to compete

now, I agree with crappy FA and bad draft picks specially on defense. fix defensive evaluation problem and this team will be better...

 

[Swagger]

I never said Elite QBs need strong supporting cast to be good. in fact I agreed with that. I just think there are at most 2 or 3 Elite QBs, with everybody else being good and the good ones know how to use the weapons they have and maximize them. the good ones produce with good supporting cast.

Jones in KC was huge. He was drafted by them and there was no way they would let him leave. in fact teams will hold on to their own top players and FA and not allow them to hit the market. That's why its extremely difficult to build through FA since injured, old or headcases hit the FA market.
KC signed Honey badger and he was their one big FA signing, so they didn't build their defense through high priced FAs, they drafted well and sign one big key player, they had a couple of key mid level FAs that they evaluated correctly and signed, where we tend to miss on those evaluations. we signed several mid level FAs, but they were all bad to awful.

I like Dak more than Lamar Jackson, because I don't like running QBs. I like Dak better than tannehill, given Tannehill threw for less than 100 yards, twice in the playoffs and they won because of Henry and their defense and great coaching. Tannehill is the ultimate definition of a bus driver. I never liked Cousins, that was Minn. mistake signing him, agree with you there. Mayfield is inaccurate, throws too many interceptions and still has problems reading defenses. he had an average year this year, where they told him we don't need you to win games, just don't make mistakes.....their strong running game and their defense is what drove their team this year. not mayfield. he is not able to lift anyone around him and given he had Landry and Beckam and Hooper, their passing attack was very average this year and last year.

based on what you just posted, it seems you are advocating for us to tank. thus perhaps we should start trading all our assets to accumulate draft picks, hoping to have top 2,3 pick and the right QB is available for us to draft...

I don't see any better alternative to Dak, not in the draft where we are picking this year and the available QBs and not in FA (oh God please tell me you are not advocating for Dalton).

Ask all 32 GMs if they could have Lamar or Dak next season who would they pick...I would be surprised if more than one (Jerry) picked Dak. Lamar isn't exactly Tim Tebow throwing the ball and he was the league MVP last season.

 

[OmerV]

Ask all 32 GMs if they could have Lamar or Dak next season who would they pick...I would be surprised if more than one (Jerry) picked Dak. Lamar isn't exactly Tim Tebow throwing the ball and he was the league MVP last season.

I don't know that this is relevant to what he said because he specifically said it was his opinion and didn't represent that he was speaking for anyone else. For that matter, he didn't even say Dak was more talented, he just said he likes Dak better because he doesn't like running QB's. .

 

[Swagger]

I don't know that this is relevant to what he said because he specifically said it was his opinion and didn't represent that he was speaking for anyone else. For that matter, he didn't even say Dak was more talented, he just said he likes Dak better because he doesn't like running QB's. .

Thanks for highlighting why I have now blocked you for failing to understand the relevance.