The Curious Case of Brandon Carr

[Bluefin]

Todd Archer | Finding a Brandon Carr solution for the Cowboys

The Cowboys are looking for a solution regarding Carr. Here are their options:

** Designate him a post-June 1 cut and save $8 million against the cap this year, while having him count $7.4 million against the cap in 2016.

** Cut him without the designation, which would save only $566,000.

** Don’t do anything and have him count $12.717 million against the cap and pay him an $8 million base salary this season.

** Get him to agree to a pay cut, which would save them cash and cap dollars.

Most of the focus has been on the pay cut Doug Free agreed to in 2012. Carr’s agent, Ben Dogra, is on record as saying the player would not agree to a pay cut, but that was viewed mostly as posturing. Last week Carr said he would not talk about his contract, but he wants to remain with the Cowboys.

The Cowboys have been quiet about Carr. Owner and general manager Jerry Jones felt Carr’s late-season improvement in 2014 meant more than his overall play last season.

“I’m not quite as critical of what Carr did last year as it might seem I should be,” Jones said last week.

So what is a possible solution that can make both sides happy? A contract extension.

What?

You can hate the fact that Carr did not intercept a pass last year and cringe at some of the big plays he gave up, but realize the market will not be dry for him.

He is set to make $17.1 million the next two seasons in base salary.He wouldn’t get that much in a new deal from any team.

The Seattle Seahawks gave Cary Williams a three-year, $18 million deal that included $7 million guaranteed. He had a brutal season for the Eagles but was still able to pull in a decent offer.

As much as the Cowboys have stockpiled their defensive line and linebackers this offseason, there is an adage that will forever be true in the NFL: You can never have enough corners.

I would not give Brandon Carr any kind of contract extension.

That offer is not on the table.

But I am willing to exceed the $7M guaranteed Seattle handed Cary Williams (and over 2yrs, not 3).

What often gets left out when the Doug Free pay cut gets brought up is that the embattled RT got something in return.

Free's 2013 reduced base salary was immediately guaranteed, ensuring he would not get released that season, and the 2014 reduced base salary would become guaranteed if he remained on the roster after the first week of that league year.

We can do the exact same thing with Carr.

Something like, drop this year's salary from $8M to $3.5M and guarantee it. Drop next year's base from $9.1M to $4.5M and guarantee it if the CB remains on the roster the first week of the 2016 league year.

Dallas gets cash and cap savings ($9.1M), Carr gets roster security and makes more money ($8M) than he'll find on the open market at this late date.

Carr's agent, Ben Dogra, will know what kind of offers will be out there if his client gets released.

Stephen Jones will have a good idea, too.

Hopefully, something like this will get worked out.

 

[Bluefin]

What a difference a year makes! And because they're solid contenders this season I can't see them dumping Carr. They may still aggressively push for a salary cut, but they won't release him if he doesn't agree.

If the team wants Brandon Carr to play for less and he isn't receptive, there may be no turning back at that point.

Would they even bring it up if unwilling to bring the hammer?

Carr would tell his teammates that he refused a pay cut and the Cowboys buckled.

That would not do.

Both sides know this discussion is coming, both will be able to gauge the CB's current market value.

I hope an amicable resolution is found.

But if Dallas walks down this path, they need to be prepared to release Carr if things come to that.

 

[Nightman]

Please don't conflate INT numbers with success. Carr has not played as expected, but it's not because of the number of INTs or lack thereof.

They kinda matter for CBs

 

[AzorAhai]

Todd Archer | Finding a Brandon Carr solution for the Cowboys























I would not give Brandon Carr any kind of contract extension.

That offer is not on the table.

But I am willing to exceed the $7M guaranteed Seattle handed Cary Williams (and over 2yrs, not 3).

What often gets left out when the Doug Free pay cut gets brought up is that the embattled RT got something in return.

Free's 2013 reduced base salary was immediately guaranteed, ensuring he would not get released that season, and the 2014 reduced base salary would become guaranteed if he remained on the roster after the first week of that league year.

We can do the exact same thing with Carr.

Something like, drop this year's salary from $8M to $3.5M and guarantee it. Drop next year's base from $9.1M to $4.5M and guarantee it if the CB remains on the roster the first week of the 2016 league year.

Dallas gets cash and cap savings ($9.1M), Carr gets roster security and makes more money ($8M) than he'll find on the open market at this late date.

Carr's agent, Ben Dogra, will know what kind of offers will be out there if his client gets released.

Stephen Jones will have a good idea, too.

Hopefully, something like this will get worked out.

** Designate him a post-June 1 cut and save $8 million against the cap this year, while having him count $7.4 million against the cap in 2016.

Its been mentioned how if Carr is designated as a June 1st cut they can just roll that money over. Well this is exactly why that makes zero sense. You gain 8 million now, but rolling it over will put it on the 2016 cap WITH his dead money which is 7.4 million. Essentially the cut him and roll it over crowd is willing to cut him for a 600k gain? Brandon Carr isn’t worth 600k? Not to mention a vet replacement will cost at least 1-2 million so essentially your losing money. The only way Carr is going to be cut is if they HAVE to have the cap space THIS year. It makes zero sense to cut him otherwise

/thread

 

[Nightman]

** Designate him a post-June 1 cut and save $8 million against the cap this year, while having him count $7.4 million against the cap in 2016.

Its been mentioned how if Carr is designated as a June 1st cut they can just roll that money over. Well this is exactly why that makes zero sense. You gain 8 million now, but rolling it over will put it on the 2016 cap WITH his dead money which is 7.4 million. Essentially the cut him and roll it over crowd is willing to cut him for a 600k gain? Brandon Carr isn’t worth 600k? Not to mention a vet replacement will cost at least 1-2 million so essentially your losing money. The only way Carr is going to be cut is if they HAVE to have the cap space THIS year. It makes zero sense to cut him otherwise

/thread

You leave out that if he isn't cut his cap hit is 13.8m next year. So that 7.4m doesn't look so bad and it doesn't go away by paying him another 8m this year.

If they pay him this year he still has a cap hit of 7.4m if they cut him next year. It can be split over 2 years if they make him a June 1st next year, but it is still there.

Even if you pay a vet CB that is cut during camp it is a savings of 6m this year and 6.4m next year.

We didn't draft BJones to sit him for 2 years.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Should Carr stay with the Cowboys, he has no excuses with the front 7 the Cowboys have assembled.

 

[Bluefin]

** Designate him a post-June 1 cut and save $8 million against the cap this year, while having him count $7.4 million against the cap in 2016.

Its been mentioned how if Carr is designated as a June 1st cut they can just roll that money over. Well this is exactly why that makes zero sense. You gain 8 million now, but rolling it over will put it on the 2016 cap WITH his dead money which is 7.4 million. Essentially the cut him and roll it over crowd is willing to cut him for a 600k gain? Brandon Carr isn’t worth 600k? Not to mention a vet replacement will cost at least 1-2 million so essentially your losing money. The only way Carr is going to be cut is if they HAVE to have the cap space THIS year. It makes zero sense to cut him otherwise

/thread

You don't understand the salary cap.

If Brandon Carr is released as a May 12th casualty (the date was moved up from June), the team would open up around $7.5M in cap space after adding a new contract to their top 51.

Dallas would save almost $6M against the cap in 2016 despite the $7.434M in dead money.

That's around $13.5M in cap savings, the actual cash savings would be $17.1M.

 

[AzorAhai]

You leave out that if he isn't cut his cap hit is 13.8m next year. So that 7.4m doesn't look so bad and it doesn't go away by paying him another 8m this year.

If they pay him this year he still has a cap hit of 7.4m if they cut him next year. It can be split over 2 years if they make him a June 1st next year, but it is still there.

Even if you pay a vet CB that is cut during camp it is a savings of 6m this year and 6.4m next year.

We didn't draft BJones to sit him for 2 years.

Edit. Just looked at the numbers again and was mistaken. My apologies.

 

[AzorAhai]

You don't understand the salary cap.

If Brandon Carr is released as a May 12th casualty (the date was moved up from June), the team would open up around $7.5M in cap space after adding a new contract to their top 51.

Dallas would save almost $6M against the cap in 2016 despite the $7.434M in dead money.

That's around $13.5M in cap savings, the actual cash savings would be $17.1M.

Actually looking at it again, your right. My apologies

 

[Bluefin]

No your not understanding. Yes it opens up 8 million this year. So what? If they don't plan on using it what good does that 8m do? Next years dead money is 7.4 million right? That means rolling over 8 is almost completely negated by that 7.4 dead money hit. Its not that complicated.

You aren't factoring in the savings of NOT paying Brandon Carr's 2016 base salary ($9.1M).

There would be $7.434m in dead money in 2016, but the team would be saving the base salary of $9.1M for a net savings of $5.933M (using the '16 minimum salary of $450K as a replacement player).

If Carr gets released, the team would recoup his $8M base salary this season for a cap savings of $7.565M after adding a minimum salary ($435K) to the top 51.

Dallas DOES NOT have to use that cap space this season, all teams are allowed to carryover any unused cap space to the following season.

The Cowboys could add that $7.565M of '15 cap savings to the '16 savings of $5.933M for a total savings of $13.498M on Carr.

 

[AdamJT13]

If Brandon Carr is released as a May 12th casualty (the date was moved up from June)

The reported change from June 1 to May 12 didn't have to do with the salary cap, it had to do with the compensatory picks equation. I haven't seen anything that said the date for June 2 cuts has changed.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Brandon Carr is getting younger? How curious indeed.

 

[Bluefin]

The reported change from June 1 to May 12 didn't have to do with the salary cap, it had to do with the compensatory picks equation. I haven't seen anything that said the date for June 2 cuts has changed.

Bugger.

I've read on ESPN and elsewhere that the date shifted to May, salary cap, compensatory picks, everything.

The info could've been wrong or maybe I misread it.

 

[casmith07]

They kinda matter for CBs

They don't. You have to look at whole statistics such as targets and passes defended or deflected. You also have to evaluate empty stats as well - Nnamdi Asomugha has a very small number of career interceptions but he was one of the best man corners in the NFL.

 

[Bluefin]

The reported change from June 1 to May 12 didn't have to do with the salary cap, it had to do with the compensatory picks equation. I haven't seen anything that said the date for June 2 cuts has changed.

You're correct.

I just looked up the NFL's 2015 off-season calender and it's on there.

June 1 For any player removed from the club’s roster or whose contract is assigned via waivers or trade on or after June 1, any unamortized signing bonus amounts for future years will be included fully in team salary at the start of the 2016 League Year

 

[AdamJT13]

Bugger.

I've read on ESPN and elsewhere that the date shifted to May, salary cap, compensatory picks, everything.

The info could've been wrong or maybe I misread it.

I've only seen it in reference to the comp picks equation. NFL.com has still been using "post-June 1 designation" in reference to the cap date.

 

[Nightman]

You're correct.

I just looked up the NFL's 2015 off-season calender and it's on there.

I have been trying to get this verified for weeks without any luck. I've seen Florio mention the change on PFT but it was more speculation than verification. I guess we will find out tomorrow.

Like Adam said, the May 12th date is about FAs added after this date won't count against teams when figuring out how to award comp picks next year. BAL has made of habit of waiting until June 2nd to sign players. This gives them almost 3 extra weeks to learn with their new team.

 

[NeonNinja]

I don't hate Carr. It's just business. Those options can do the same job for a lot less.

It is the same argument people are making about Murray, but unlike Carr, Murray actually produced.

I would have paid Murray before Carr. But Murray is gone now and Carr should follow.

Yeah, Murray produced. He also had a much better supporting cast that helped him tremendously. Carr was not as lucky. Hardly any pass rush and a lack of deep help. I would love for them to work out a pay cut but we will see how it plays out.

 

[Craig]

Murray and carr situations have nothing to do with eachother.

 

[Nightman]

Yeah, Murray produced. He also had a much better supporting cast that helped him tremendously. Carr was not as lucky. Hardly any pass rush and a lack of deep help. I would love for them to work out a pay cut but we will see how it plays out.

Carr hasn't done anything but cash 33m in checks the last 3 years and stayed healthy. He isn't worth another 17m for the next 2 years. If he needs a pass rush just to be average we can do better. That is why we spent #27 on a CB in the draft.