The Eagles Jalen Hurts problem

[GINeric]

I never said that winning at the highest level proves that you are a better quarterback than anybody. You're assumptions are your own. The statement explains itself. It just proves that you can win at the highest level. Those other guys did not or have not. It's not really a hard concept to understand. But if what you are saying is true, that they didn't win at the highest level in college or the NFL. Well. . .

I mean Dan Marino could tell any qb not on his skill level a lot of things about being a successful "elite" qb. But one thing he couldn't do is tell them what it is, or what it takes to be a champion. Because he NEVER did it.

I'm not sure if you're just trying to argue for arguments sake at this point.

No im not trying to argue, but you repeatedly stated how Dak hasn't won at the highest level as if he isn't capable. Hey, until he proves he can, I totally agree with you.

All I did was state the other quarterbacks who were considered elite and better than Dak who've shown that they can't or couldn't win at the highest levels either.

Then I listed the names of quarterbacks who weren't considered elite and HAVE won at the highest level.

Again, according to your logic, what should I take from this?

What's you opinion of non elite quarterbacks who were able to do something elite quarterbacks couldn't do..... and thats win a Superbowl.

 

[TheRunningMan]

No im not trying to argue, but you repeatedly stated how Dak hasn't won at the highest level as if he isn't capable. Hey, until he proves he can, I totally agree with you.

All I did was state the other quarterbacks who were considered elite and better than Dak who've shown that they can't or couldn't win at the highest levels either.

Then I listed the names of quarterbacks who weren't considered elite and HAVE won at the highest level.

Again, according to your logic, what should I take from this?

What's you opinion of non elite quarterbacks who were able to do something elite quarterbacks couldn't do..... and thats win a Superbowl.

You answered your own question. What you should take from them is that they won the Super Bowl.

My opinion on non-elite qbs that they were able to win the Super Bowl when elite qbs didn't is: They proved they could win the Super Bowl. While those other guys did/have not.

Capability is not a verification. Belief and faith is not knowledge and education. Knowledge and education is not perfoming and executing. You can be capable, believe, have faith, as well the education and knowledge on how to do something. But executing and getting it done is a seperate thing entirely.

So while Dak is fully capable of winning a Super Bowl, he has the knowledge and education on how to do so. And you may believe and have faith in him. He has not performed or executed within the structure of his team to get out of the divisional round of the playoffs. Not saying it's all his fault. Just laying out the facts.

 

[GINeric]

Take your own advice and level up your material pops.

You've been saying the same corny beat for like 3 days now. Like you either like dudes and are trying to flirt, or are just thirsty for attention, pops. Because there's no way that a "grown man" who has been watching football since the 60's -- is this thirsty for the attentions from random strangers on a football forum. While flattering, I don't bat for that team. Like numerous peopleAnd there's no problem with it, if YOU do. You're just on the wrong forum and talking to the wrong guy.

Good luck with all that though!

Numerous other people in here quoting and trying to converse with you, but you keep talking to ME.

OBSESSED.

lmao

First of all lil bro, I wasn't even close to being born in the 60s.

Then you brought up all this "liking men or flirting with guys" crap. You just told on yourself lil bro. You literally just outed yourself. That explains why you come across as an emotional, weak and soft dude.

Listen, I don't judge and have respect for your community.

With that said, this is a Dallas Cowboys football forum. This isn't the thread to come out with your truth. Its commendable, but this isn't the place lil guy.

So keep it football here. I know you're lashing out because obviously you've most likely been bullied all your life but take some self defense classes or something. Coming to a rival teams board to lashing out isn't going to toughen you up.

Again, this is a football board. Take your pain of being soft, bullied and weak elsewhere lil guy.

 

[GINeric]

You answered your own question. What you should take from them is that they won the Super Bowl.

My opinion on non-elite qbs that were able to win the Super Bowl when elite qbs didn't is: They proved they could win the Super Bowl. While those other guys did/have not.

Capability is not verification. We are all capable of making a million dollars. We all don't make a million dollars.

So according to what your narrative is, non elite quarterbacks who've won Superbowls obviously proves that they're better quarterbacks than elite quarterbacks who couldn't win Superbowls, correct?

At the end of the day, the goal is to win Superbowls.

 

[TheRunningMan]

First of all lil bro, I wasn't even close to being born in the 60s.

Then you brought up all this "liking men or flirting with guys" crap. You just told on yourself lil bro. You literally just outed yourself. That explains why you come across as an emotional, weak and soft dude.

Listen, I don't judge and have respect for your community.

With that said, this is a Dallas Cowboys football forum. This isn't the thread to come out with your truth. Its commendable, but this isn't the place lil guy.

So keep it football here. I know you're lashing out because obviously you've most likely been bullied all your life but take some self defense classes or something. Coming to a rival teams board to lashing out isn't going to toughen you up.

Again, this is a football board. Take your pain of being soft, bullied and weak elsewhere lil guy.

I dont care about your personal life. For the 3rd time:

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE

If you want respect? Give respect and save the sermons and pontifications for your grand kids pops.

 

[GINeric]

You answered your own question. What you should take from them is that they won the Super Bowl.

My opinion on non-elite qbs that they were able to win the Super Bowl when elite qbs didn't is: They proved they could win the Super Bowl. While those other guys did/have not.

Capability is not a verification. Belief and faith is not knowledge and education. Knowledge and education is not perfoming and executing. You can be capable, believe, have faith, as well the education and knowledge on how to do something. But executing and getting it done is a seperate thing entirely.

So while Dak is fully capable of winning a Super Bowl, he has the knowledge and education on how to do so. And you may believe and have faith in him. He has not performed or executed within the structure of his team to get out of the divisional round of the playoffs. Not saying it's all his fault. Just laying out the facts.

This is the most sensible post that you've ever typed. Im proud of you.

Thats why i didn't understand why you originally mentioned that Dak didn't win at the highest levels, as if it was his fault solely. You finally get it!!!

Its a team game, this isn't boxing or golf. With THAT said..... yes Dak has come up short in some of the biggest games that we needed him to step up in, but not all of them. There are many times we had total team and/or coaching collapses.

 

[TheRunningMan]

So according to what your narrative is, non elite quarterbacks who've won Superbowls obviously proves that they're better quarterbacks than elite quarterbacks who couldn't win Superbowls, correct?

At the end of the day, the goal is to win Superbowls.

Look man, I'm about to put you on ignore because you keep going on with the dumb stuff.

I told you in American english that winning a Super Bowl doesn't prove you are a better qb than soemone that did not win the Super Bowl. And you keep trying to argue with yourself. It's my bad for participating but I'm about to stop.

The goal for everyone in the NFL is NOT to win Super Bowls. That's a myth and something for fans. Some guys just want to make money, or like what they can get from being in the NFL. Everyone's goal is not to win a Super Bowl unfortunately and I can't say either way what an individual who has not TOLD me what their goals are. But to you if that's the metric then, YOU are saying that. I already told you what I said, and I know for a stone cold fact. That not everyone in the NFL from the players and coaches down. Is solely there to "win Super Bowls". So some players don't give a damn about if this guy/team got a ring, because personally their goal is to "keep getting contracts" and if they happen to get a ring on the way to their goals? Then that's icing on the cake.


If you think everybody in the NFL cares about winning a Super Bowl? I got news for you they don't and Santa also doesn't exist

 

[TheRunningMan]

This is the most sensible post that you've ever typed. Im proud of you.

Thats why i didn't understand why you originally mentioned that Dak didn't win at the highest levels, as if it was his fault solely. You finally get it!!!

Its a team game, this isn't boxing or golf. With THAT said..... yes Dak has come up short in some of the biggest games that we needed him to step up in, but not all of them. There are many times we had total team and/or coaching collapses.

It's because your assumptions are your own. You assumed what you wanted to assume. You took it how YOU wanted to take it. Which is why I called you emotional. Bc YOU were making the point what YOU wanted the point to be. Your thoughts aren't MY thoughts.

 

[GINeric]

I dont care about your personal life. For the 3rd time:

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE

If you want respect? Give respect and save the sermons and pontifications for your grand kids pops.

You're the one who came out about your lifestyle on a rival football board. Thats weird lil dude.

 

[TheRunningMan]

You're the one who came out about your lifestyle on a rival football board. Thats weird lil dude.

Nice talking to you.

 

[GINeric]

Nice talking to you.

Kick rocks and take your colorful emotions and weakness back to your Eagles board lil bro. We already have enough low IQ cowards from the Eagles fanbase already here trolling. Some of those cowards actually pretend to be Cowboys fans.

Deuces!!!

 

[Swagger]

The disconnect regarding Dak is that some people, myself included, simply don't think he can win a Superbowl based on his two lacklustre performances against the 49ers in back to back seasons. It's subjective but those were good Cowboy teams and in my view at the very least a team fully capable of playing in a Superbowl and one that had enough to win one. When asked upon Dak couldn't make enough plays to win either game and he had ample opportunities.

When it comes to play off losses I always think would the team have won with a better quarterback and given how both games worked out, yes is the definitive answer to me. To have been the losing quarterback in both games was unacceptable - especially given his contract.

It's why I really can't get excited at what the Cowboys do until he is no longer the quarterback. His contract prevents the Cowboys from retaining every player they would like whilst also adding quality to free agency thus making it exceptionally difficult for the front office to construct a Superbowl winning roster whilst being on the hook for $231 million in guaranteed money over 4 years.

 

[TheRunningMan]

The disconnect regarding Dak is that some people, myself included, simply don't think he can win a Superbowl based on his two lacklustre performances against the 49ers in back to back seasons. It's subjective but those were good Cowboy teams and in my view at the very least a team fully capable of playing in a Superbowl and one that had enough to win one. When asked upon Dak couldn't make enough plays to win either game and he had ample opportunities.

When it comes to play off losses I always think would the team have won with a better quarterback and given how both games worked out, yes is the definitive answer to me. To have been the losing quarterback in both games was unacceptable - especially given his contract.

It's why I really can't get excited at what the Cowboys do until he is no longer the quarterback. His contract prevents the Cowboys from retaining every player they would like whilst also adding quality to free agency.

While I do not think all of the Cowboys playoff losses have been solely on Dak. He is a high contributing factor and his issues (turnovers, poor decisions, terrible situation awareness). Are magnified in win or go home scenarios.


That loss to the 9ers 19 - 12 in the playoffs was on him. He threw a pick 6. Which was the margin the team lost by. The Cowboys defense held the 9er offense to 12 points. I honestly thought that was the Cowboys year.

In the Greenbay loss. Multipe early turnovers and a pick 6. He didn't even look like a functional NFL qb until GB pulled their starters and played prevent defense in the 3rd quarter.

The belief and blind faith in Dak from his supporters is based on hope and dreams.

I don't think Dak is a bad qb. I think he is a solid tier 2 qb. But all the hype on his stats vs his in-the moment production of the big games is just wishful thinking.

 

[DarkVader33]

The disconnect regarding Dak is that some people, myself included, simply don't think he can win a Superbowl based on his two lacklustre performances against the 49ers in back to back seasons. It's subjective but those were good Cowboy teams and in my view at the very least a team fully capable of playing in a Superbowl and one that had enough to win one. When asked upon Dak couldn't make enough plays to win either game and he had ample opportunities.

When it comes to play off losses I always think would the team have won with a better quarterback and given how both games worked out, yes is the definitive answer to me. To have been the losing quarterback in both games was unacceptable - especially given his contract.

It's why I really can't get excited at what the Cowboys do until he is no longer the quarterback. His contract prevents the Cowboys from retaining every player they would like whilst also adding quality to free agency thus making it exceptionally difficult for the front office to construct a Superbowl winning roster whilst being on the hook for $231 million in guaranteed money over 4 years.

So you picked two games out of seven for your argument. Against a far superior team top to bottom. Why don’t you talk about the two wins he has? And believe me, I’m not defending Dak. I do believe though, that he can win with the right pieces around him just like Hurts and Darnold. The bigger issue is the overpay on his last contract. And of course Jerry running the team.

 

[Swagger]

There are typically three ways to reach/win a Superbowl in terms of the type of quarterback over the past 10 years.

Elite - e.g., Mahomes, Brady, Stafford.

Competent vet on team friendly contract - e.g., Darnold, Jimmy G, Foles, Ryan.

Ride contract of a promising rookie - e.g., Purdy, Goff, Burrow, Hurts (1st Superbowl),

Dak simply doesn't fit into any of those brackets. He doesn't fit the model of winning a Superbowl as the highest paid player in NFL history yet not even being elite in his craft.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Ben Roethlisberger was on a rookie contract not the highest paid player in NFL history.

Everyone knows that it takes a good team to win the Superbowl. Obviously.

The big issue with Dak Prescott has been his contract.

Sam Darnold has pretty much put up Dak Prescott type numbers in his last two regular seasons and realistically those are the only good teams Darnold has had to play with. Yet his contract is $55 million guaranteed over 3 years. Dak Prescott is being paid $231 million guaranteed over 4 years.

It's so much harder to build a team good enough to win the Superbowl when he is massively overpaid.

It means the front office have to hit with countless draft picks and bargain free agency signings to pick up the slack.

Fault the Cowboys for giving him that contract then.

I don't know why some people still cling to the belief that paying a player more money makes them perform better. The Cowboys knew what Dak was well before they offered him that contract.

And don't fall for the Jones Boys' schtick that the money owed to Dak, Lamb, and other players limits them in free agency. It does not. Average annual salary does not equal cap hit. The Eagles have proven this season after season. Look at the money they are paying Jaylon Hurts, Saquon Barkley, A.J. Brown, Davonta Smith, the league's best offensive line, and their defensive stars. Add that up.

And yet Cowboys fans hide behind Dak's deal as an excuse this roster cannot be upgraded. Ohhhhkayyyy.

 

[Swagger]

So you picked two games out of seven for your argument. Against a far superior team top to bottom. Why don’t you talk about the two wins he has? And believe me, I’m not defending Dak. I do believe though, that he can win with the right pieces around him just like Hurts and Darnold. The bigger issue is the overpay on his last contract. And of course Jerry running the team.

Well I was being kind by not mentioning his performance in the last play off game against the Packers which was beyond embarrassing in the first half before stats Prescott came out in the second half once the game had already been lost by himself and the defense.

The two play off wins came against a very average Seahawks team where Wilson was the better performing quarterback but Carroll didn’t let him cook and the other play off win came against a truly terrible Bucs team who had a losing record in the regular season and were made up of guys who were either banged up or completely washed. The reality is that the Cowboys comfortably win that game even with Cooper Rush at quarterback.

The "far superior" 49ers teams had a worse regular season record than the Cowboys by 2 games in 2021, the Cowboys D had conceded fewer points over 17 games and had a + point difference of 110 over those 17 games. The 49ers won 1 more game than the Cowboys in 2022 and in the Divisional game itself the Cowboys only needed 20 points to prevail and it want played in the snow etc. They were both good teams and on paper most people would have thought the Cowboys should have had a significant advantage at the most important and influential position...yet that didn't prove to be the case.

As you mention the overpay in Dak's contract is the overriding issue. If he was being paid like Sam Darnold then, whilst I would still prefer another quarterback, I could actually see a plan in place of building a juggernaut with the massive extra cap space to help carry him in the play offs with more blue-chip players particularly on defense.

Sadly the process is rinse and repeat. We have seen that Dak is unable to pick up the slack and help the team win play off games yet due to his contract of $231 million guaranteed over 4 years the front office can't add countless All-Pros to get it done.

Moreover, I'm not convinced Dak would have beaten the Rams in a shootout like Darnold as I haven't seen him help the Cowboys beat a genuinely good team like that in the play offs.

 

[DarkVader33]

Well I was being kind by not mentioning his performance in the last play off game against the Packers which was beyond embarrassing in the first half before stats Prescott came out in the second half once the game had already been lost by himself and the defense.

The two play off wins came against a very average Seahawks team where Wilson was the better performing quarterback but Carroll didn’t let him cook and the other play off win came against a truly terrible Bucs team who had a losing record in the regular season and were made up of guys who were either banged up or completely washed. The reality is that the Cowboys comfortably win that game even with Cooper Rush at quarterback.

The "far superior" 49ers teams had a worse regular season record than the Cowboys by 2 games in 2021, the Cowboys D had conceded fewer points over 17 games and had a + point difference of 110 over those 17 games. The 49ers won 1 more game than the Cowboys in 2022 and in the Divisional game itself the Cowboys only needed 20 points to prevail and it want played in the snow etc. They were both good teams and on paper most people would have thought the Cowboys should have had a significant advantage at the most important and influential position...yet that didn't prove to be the case.

As you mention the overpay in Dak's contract is the overriding issue. If he was being paid like Sam Darnold then, whilst I would still prefer another quarterback, I could actually see a plan in place of building a juggernaut with the massive extra cap space to help carry him in the play offs with more blue-chip players particularly on defense.

Sadly the process is rinse and repeat. We have seen that Dak is unable to pick up the slack and help the team win play off games yet due to his contract of $231 million guaranteed over 4 years the front office can't add countless All-Pros to get it done.

Moreover, I'm not convinced Dak would have beaten the Rams in a shootout like Darnold as I haven't seen him help the Cowboys beat a genuinely good team like that in the play offs.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. Does Dak need help to win? Yes, just like Hurts and Darnold. Dak is better than Darnold and that’s not debatable, despite what he did against the rams. And he’s arguably better than Hurts. They benefited from having better teams and management and I doubt you would disagree with that. And if you think Dak is only worth what Sam gets paid, I don’t know what to tell you. He’s overpaid but not a $30 mil QB. And if Sam has truly gotten better, he won’t be paid so little for very long.

 

[GINeric]

The disconnect regarding Dak is that some people, myself included, simply don't think he can win a Superbowl based on his two lacklustre performances against the 49ers in back to back seasons. It's subjective but those were good Cowboy teams and in my view at the very least a team fully capable of playing in a Superbowl and one that had enough to win one. When asked upon Dak couldn't make enough plays to win either game and he had ample opportunities.

When it comes to play off losses I always think would the team have won with a better quarterback and given how both games worked out, yes is the definitive answer to me. To have been the losing quarterback in both games was unacceptable - especially given his contract.

It's why I really can't get excited at what the Cowboys do until he is no longer the quarterback. His contract prevents the Cowboys from retaining every player they would like whilst also adding quality to free agency thus making it exceptionally difficult for the front office to construct a Superbowl winning roster whilst being on the hook for $231 million in guaranteed money over 4 years.

This is a great breakdown of the reasons you lack faith in Dak and the front office. I respect it. This is a classic example of intelligently breaking down your concerns with Dak and/or his abilities or lack thereof.

The resident low IQ Dak hating cowards here aren't intelligent enough to break things down the way you did.

The only thing I may disagree with is the first 49ers playoff game. Im not saying he played a great game but he was not the reason we loss solely. The Cowboys committed a playoff record of 14 penalties and we were playing against the number one ranked 49ers defense.

Pat Mahomes and Brady wouldn't have won that first playoff game.

There's a reason no quarterback and/or team in NFL history that has ever won a playoff game vs a number defense after committing that many penalties.

 

[Swagger]

I respect your opinion but I disagree. Does Dak need help to win? Yes, just like Hurts and Darnold. Dak is better than Darnold and that’s not debatable, despite what he did against the rams. And he’s arguably better than Hurts. They benefited from having better teams and management and I doubt you would disagree with that. And if you think Dak is only worth what Sam gets paid, I don’t know what to tell you. He’s overpaid but not a $30 mil QB. And if Sam has truly gotten better, he won’t be paid so little for very long.

I would debate whether Dak has been better than Darnold over the previous two seasons. There are tangible results of Darnold making two teams better in terms of the team records with and without him plus his individual stats are very good. I would argue that it's irrelevant to judge Darnold on those horrible Jets and Panthers teams where even having prime Tom Brady would have made little difference.

I think Hurts makes more of a difference to the Eagles than most appreciate. He is the one who received the criticism for the Eagles' drop off last season yet people overlook that Barkley averaged only 4.1 yards a carry when he had 5.8 yards a carry the season before. The offensive line clearly struggled and for whatever reason (injury/play calling) Hurts didn't run as much which had been central to opening up the running lanes for Barkley and the throws for himself. Would the Eagles offense be as effective with Dak given they would have to completely change the scheme and it could takeaway time of possession which in turn could impact the impact from the defense?

With regard to Dak's value he isn't the best player in the league or anywhere near that level and his salary should not be that of an elite player. As mentioned above, I consider his level to be similar to Darnold over the past two seasons and the latter is paid $55 million guaranteed over 3 years. If the Cowboys front office adopted a moneyball type approach where they more accurately assess the value of players then Prescott would have been overpaid by some other mug team with no chance of winning a Superbowl. As it is, the Cowboys front office decided to pay him $231 million guaranteed over 4 years. I would say the same if a team offered Darnold that same contract - it would be a boneheaded back breaking decision for the organisation.