The Eagles Jalen Hurts problem

[DarkVader33]

I would debate whether Dak has been better than Darnold over the previous two seasons. There are tangible results of Darnold making two teams better in terms of the team records with and without him plus his individual stats are very good. I would argue that it's irrelevant to judge Darnold on those horrible Jets and Panthers teams where even having prime Tom Brady would have made little difference.

I think Hurts makes more of a difference to the Eagles than most appreciate. He is the one who received the criticism for the Eagles' drop off last season yet people overlook that Barkley averaged only 4.1 yards a carry when he had 5.8 yards a carry the season before. The offensive line clearly struggled and for whatever reason (injury/play calling) Hurts didn't run as much which had been central to opening up the running lanes for Barkley and the throws for himself. Would the Eagles offense be as effective with Dak given they would have to completely change the scheme and it could takeaway time of possession?

With regard to Dak's value he isn't the best player in the league or anywhere near that level and his salary should not be that of an elite player. As mentioned above, I consider his level to be similar to Darnold over the past two seasons and the latter is paid $55 million guaranteed over 3 years. If the Cowboys front office adopted a moneyball type approach where they more accurately assess the value of players then Prescott would gave been overpaid by some other mug team with no chance of winning a Superbowl. As it is, the Cowboys front office decided to pay him $231 million guaranteed over 4 years. I would say the same if a team offered Darnold that same contract.

I can’t argue with your assessment except one. Considering Darnold’s play the last couple of years, he is underpaid and Seattle took advantage of that like any good team should. I also still don’t believe Darnold is better than Dak, however. JMO.

 

[Swagger]

I can’t argue with your assessment except one. Considering Darnold’s play the last couple of years, he is underpaid and Seattle took advantage of that like any good team should. I also still don’t believe Darnold is better than Dak, however. JMO.

I agree that Seattle took advantage of Darnold seemingly appearing like a 1st round bust so they were able to take a bit of a punt.

Conversely Dak has pretty much always put up impressive numbers and looked like a good quarterback. But he obviously had a completely different offense/team to the one Darnold had been playing in until the last two seasons.

If the Seahawks give Darnold another contract and pay him $50+ million then that will be the end of their Superbowl chances as he would not be good enough to make up for the pieces they would inevitably have to let go. A good front office would simply move on from him at that point.

 

[Swagger]

This is a great breakdown of the reasons you lack faith in Dak and the front office. I respect it. This is a classic example of intelligently breaking down your concerns with Dak and/or his abilities or lack thereof.

The resident low IQ Dak hating cowards here aren't intelligent enough to break things down the way you did.

The only thing I may disagree with is the first 49ers playoff game. Im not saying he played a great game but he was not the reason we loss solely. The Cowboys committed a playoff record of 14 penalties and we were playing against the number one ranked 49ers defense.

Pat Mahomes and Brady wouldn't have won that first playoff game.

There's a reason no quarterback and/or team in NFL history that has ever won a playoff game vs a number defense after committing that many penalties.

I didn't expect Dak to help the Cowboys win both games but he really should have done enough to help the team win one of them. From memory the offensive line did much better job of protecting him in the second game as well.

 

[kskboys]

Well if you actually followed the conversation, I was talking about other quarterbacks and someone else brought Dak into the conversation.

Its amazing how I can never mention Dak in a conversation while talking about other quarterbacks..... and then other people bring Dak into the situation. What's even more amazing is how you fail to address the people who actually brought Dak up into a conversation that I never mentioned his name in.

Three quick questions.....

1. Why do you fail to keep that same energy with people who actually hijack every thread with Dak's name in threads that has nothing to do with him?

2. How can you consider me having "an argument for Dak" if I never mentioned his name first?

3. While you were asking for a friend, who's dumb idea was it to accuse someone of bringing up Dak's name in a conversation in which he never brought Dak's name up first, your dumb idea or your friend's?

Sorry, didn't see it. I call it out when I see it.

The friend thing was a joke, dude. It normally is.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Breer's write-up on the Eagles and Hurts issues.......

Jalen Hurts​

The reality on Jalen Hurts has come out. It’s not all bad. Competitor. Tough as nails. Athletic. Undaunted in the biggest moments. Capable of making high-level throws, playing to his strengths ... and carrying a personality that isn’t for everyone, and a stringent belief in the way an offense must run for him to be at his very best.

It’s gotten the Eagles to two Super Bowls since 2022, and to their second Lombardi Trophy in franchise history about 14 months ago. That counts for a lot. But it also has led to the sort of discord that has fed into a widespread assumption that one of their best players, wide receiver A.J. Brown, will play elsewhere soon.

The ESPN story, reported by Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus, clearly established two things at the core of this that I know to be true: Coaches and teammates (Brown included) have been frustrated with Hurts, and owner Jeffrey Lurie is a staunch advocate of his 27-year-old quarterback. That kind of juxtaposition, as I’ve seen it, usually creates friction because it generally empowers the player in situations where there is a philosophical divide.

And that’s part of why the Eagles’ offensive play-caller situation is what it has been. Since getting to Philly in 2021, Nick Sirianni is 59–26, giving him the fifth-best winning percentage all-time (.694) and the best career winning percentage of any active coach. Yet, over his five years, no play-caller has started and finished two seasons in the role. Really, it has been “get to the Super Bowl or get fired” for the guy in that position.

Sirianni was the first to call plays before ceding the play sheet to Shane Steichen midseason of that first year. Steichen was the play-caller in 2022, Philly went to the Super Bowl and the OC subsequently landed the Colts’ head coach job. Brian Johnson was one-and-done in ’23. Kellen Moore was hired in ’24, Philly won it all and he went to New Orleans. And Kevin Patullo went one-and-done last year, with Sean Mannion now in from Green Bay to replace him.

Again, the Eagles won twice as many games as they lost over that stretch, made the playoffs every year, and won the division three of the past four years.

That, of course, speaks louder than anything to the mounting frustration in trying to get it right schematically for Hurts. Then there are the economics of the situation. Hurts signed a five-year, $255 million extension in 2023 that tied him to the team through ’29. Next year is the first in which the team can realistically break free from him—the Eagles would be responsible for only a $22 million guarantee that vested last month, which is subject to offset.

Meanwhile, the Eagles have mounting cap debt that’ll need to be cleared at some point, which explains why they’ve been able to be nearly as aggressive building around him the past three years as they were over the three years he was on a rookie deal.

So it’s complicated. If Hurts doesn’t get a new deal this offseason and things don’t go well under Mannion, we could be asking bigger questions a year from now. On the other hand, if he and Mannion crush it together, Mannion could be gone as soon as a year from now, the same way Moore was. No one, by the way, is arguing that Hurts isn’t a good player. He is. The long-term question will be how much he’s worth to the Eagles and, more specifically, how much it’s worth dealing with all the things that seem to hover around him.

 

[StarOfGlory]

Breer's write-up on the Eagles and Hurts issues.......

Jalen Hurts​

The reality on Jalen Hurts has come out. It’s not all bad. Competitor. Tough as nails. Athletic. Undaunted in the biggest moments. Capable of making high-level throws, playing to his strengths ... and carrying a personality that isn’t for everyone, and a stringent belief in the way an offense must run for him to be at his very best.

It’s gotten the Eagles to two Super Bowls since 2022, and to their second Lombardi Trophy in franchise history about 14 months ago. That counts for a lot. But it also has led to the sort of discord that has fed into a widespread assumption that one of their best players, wide receiver A.J. Brown, will play elsewhere soon.

The ESPN story, reported by Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus, clearly established two things at the core of this that I know to be true: Coaches and teammates (Brown included) have been frustrated with Hurts, and owner Jeffrey Lurie is a staunch advocate of his 27-year-old quarterback. That kind of juxtaposition, as I’ve seen it, usually creates friction because it generally empowers the player in situations where there is a philosophical divide.

And that’s part of why the Eagles’ offensive play-caller situation is what it has been. Since getting to Philly in 2021, Nick Sirianni is 59–26, giving him the fifth-best winning percentage all-time (.694) and the best career winning percentage of any active coach. Yet, over his five years, no play-caller has started and finished two seasons in the role. Really, it has been “get to the Super Bowl or get fired” for the guy in that position.

Sirianni was the first to call plays before ceding the play sheet to Shane Steichen midseason of that first year. Steichen was the play-caller in 2022, Philly went to the Super Bowl and the OC subsequently landed the Colts’ head coach job. Brian Johnson was one-and-done in ’23. Kellen Moore was hired in ’24, Philly won it all and he went to New Orleans. And Kevin Patullo went one-and-done last year, with Sean Mannion now in from Green Bay to replace him.

Again, the Eagles won twice as many games as they lost over that stretch, made the playoffs every year, and won the division three of the past four years.

That, of course, speaks louder than anything to the mounting frustration in trying to get it right schematically for Hurts. Then there are the economics of the situation. Hurts signed a five-year, $255 million extension in 2023 that tied him to the team through ’29. Next year is the first in which the team can realistically break free from him—the Eagles would be responsible for only a $22 million guarantee that vested last month, which is subject to offset.

Meanwhile, the Eagles have mounting cap debt that’ll need to be cleared at some point, which explains why they’ve been able to be nearly as aggressive building around him the past three years as they were over the three years he was on a rookie deal.

So it’s complicated. If Hurts doesn’t get a new deal this offseason and things don’t go well under Mannion, we could be asking bigger questions a year from now. On the other hand, if he and Mannion crush it together, Mannion could be gone as soon as a year from now, the same way Moore was. No one, by the way, is arguing that Hurts isn’t a good player. He is. The long-term question will be how much he’s worth to the Eagles and, more specifically, how much it’s worth dealing with all the things that seem to hover around him.

People can love Hurts, hate Hurts, be indifferent about Hurts, but at the end of the day the only thing that counts is wins. The Eagles win with Hurts. Just be happy they don't have someone like Joe Burrow or Josh Allen.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

People can love Hurts, hate Hurts, be indifferent about Hurts, but at the end of the day the only thing that counts is wins. The Eagles win with Hurts. Just be happy they don't have someone like Joe Burrow or Josh Allen.

True but I think what's going on here is that he only has $22M gauranteed money left on his contract after this season. He will def need an extension before the 2028 season and my guess is Dak money ( $60M ) will be his floor. Meanwhile, it's time for the Eagles to pay the piper for the largest backlog of salary debt in the league.

The bottom line IMO, they don't think he's worth $60M+ required to extend him, he's already won them a SB........why reset the position with a fresh and cheaper option

 

[SymphonySteve]

Right. And that's the question. Keep in mind that, at least on paper, 2027 is projected to have a bumper crop of QB's drafted.

And the Iggles already have several additional picks in 2027. Not to mention whatever compensation they'd get for Hurts.

 

[StarOfGlory]

True but I think what's going on here is that he only has $22M gauranteed money left on his contract after this season. He will def need an extension before the 2028 season and my guess is Dak money ( $60M ) will be his floor. Meanwhile, it's time for the Eagles to pay the piper for the largest backlog of salary debt in the league.

The bottom line IMO, they don't think he's worth $60M+ required to extend him, he's already won them a SB........why reset the position with a fresh and cheaper option

I agree. Hurts has two seasons and he gets the Wentz treatment. I wonder what his market would be if he balls out in another Super Bowl. Eagles can’t afford to spend a higher pick on a QB at this time with two possible OL retirements coming after this season.

 

[TheRunningMan]

Breer's write-up on the Eagles and Hurts issues.......

Jalen Hurts​

The reality on Jalen Hurts has come out. It’s not all bad. Competitor. Tough as nails. Athletic. Undaunted in the biggest moments. Capable of making high-level throws, playing to his strengths ... and carrying a personality that isn’t for everyone, and a stringent belief in the way an offense must run for him to be at his very best.

It’s gotten the Eagles to two Super Bowls since 2022, and to their second Lombardi Trophy in franchise history about 14 months ago. That counts for a lot. But it also has led to the sort of discord that has fed into a widespread assumption that one of their best players, wide receiver A.J. Brown, will play elsewhere soon.

The ESPN story, reported by Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus, clearly established two things at the core of this that I know to be true: Coaches and teammates (Brown included) have been frustrated with Hurts, and owner Jeffrey Lurie is a staunch advocate of his 27-year-old quarterback. That kind of juxtaposition, as I’ve seen it, usually creates friction because it generally empowers the player in situations where there is a philosophical divide.

And that’s part of why the Eagles’ offensive play-caller situation is what it has been. Since getting to Philly in 2021, Nick Sirianni is 59–26, giving him the fifth-best winning percentage all-time (.694) and the best career winning percentage of any active coach. Yet, over his five years, no play-caller has started and finished two seasons in the role. Really, it has been “get to the Super Bowl or get fired” for the guy in that position.

Sirianni was the first to call plays before ceding the play sheet to Shane Steichen midseason of that first year. Steichen was the play-caller in 2022, Philly went to the Super Bowl and the OC subsequently landed the Colts’ head coach job. Brian Johnson was one-and-done in ’23. Kellen Moore was hired in ’24, Philly won it all and he went to New Orleans. And Kevin Patullo went one-and-done last year, with Sean Mannion now in from Green Bay to replace him.

Again, the Eagles won twice as many games as they lost over that stretch, made the playoffs every year, and won the division three of the past four years.

That, of course, speaks louder than anything to the mounting frustration in trying to get it right schematically for Hurts. Then there are the economics of the situation. Hurts signed a five-year, $255 million extension in 2023 that tied him to the team through ’29. Next year is the first in which the team can realistically break free from him—the Eagles would be responsible for only a $22 million guarantee that vested last month, which is subject to offset.

Meanwhile, the Eagles have mounting cap debt that’ll need to be cleared at some point, which explains why they’ve been able to be nearly as aggressive building around him the past three years as they were over the three years he was on a rookie deal.

So it’s complicated. If Hurts doesn’t get a new deal this offseason and things don’t go well under Mannion, we could be asking bigger questions a year from now. On the other hand, if he and Mannion crush it together, Mannion could be gone as soon as a year from now, the same way Moore was. No one, by the way, is arguing that Hurts isn’t a good player. He is. The long-term question will be how much he’s worth to the Eagles and, more specifically, how much it’s worth dealing with all the things that seem to hover around him.

Shane Steichen was the Oc on Philly for 2 years. So he got that wrong. The last time Hurts had continuity with his offensive syatem and OC Steichen he was an MVP candidate.

Dan Ovorloskys take is the best take IMO. The facts do not add up to the opinions.

Also whoever wrote this missed another gem in the ESPN article. Which is Hurts thrives when he has something to prove and is coached hard. They said Stiechen and Kellen Moore where both direct and matter of fact in their coaching. The guys that got fired? Not so much and wanted to be buddy buddy.

All-in-all this is a lot of hoopola over a guy many don't think is a top 10 qb in the NFL and a JAG.

I know one thing, over on the Steelers boards and socials they are PRAYING the Eagles trade them Jalen Hurts, or that he ends up as their starting qb if the Eagles decide to move on.

I also don't understand why people keep talking about him getting an extension. He's going into year 3 of a 5 year contract. Jeffrey Lurie NEVER extends a guy in the middle of a contract.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I know one thing, over on the Steelers boards and socials they are PRAYING the Eagles trade them Jalen Hurts, or that he ends up as their starting qb if the Eagles decide to move on.

I also don't understand why people keep talking about him getting an extension. He's going into year 3 of a 5 year contract. Jeffrey Lurie NEVER extends a guy in the middle of a contract

A couple of things........
***Funny ........I was thinking the Steelers could be a nice landing spot for him. He damn near fits them to a T. They have always preferred the strong and tough leadership over the athletic, flashy, and sexy type of QB. Not sure they would be willing to give him $60M+ though.

****I think the extension talk is that this is his final season of full guaranteed money left on his contract. The remaining $22M kicked in on the 3rd day of the league's new year, 2026. So I'm 100% sure his people/agent will want NEW money at the start of next season. So what you're hearing is that this is technically a contract year for him.

Someone mentioned the other day that they were getting Russell Wilson vibes about his career going forward.

 

[Swagger]

A couple of things........
***Funny ........I was thinking the Steelers could be a nice landing spot for him. He damn near fits them to a T. They have always preferred the strong and tough leadership over the athletic, flashy, and sexy type of QB. Not sure they would be willing to give him $60M+ though.

****I think the extension talk is that this is his final season of full guaranteed money left on his contract. The remaining $22M kicked in on the 3rd day of the league's new year, 2026. So I'm 100% sure his people/agent will want NEW money at the start of next season. So what you're hearing is that this is technically a contract year for him.

Someone mentioned the other day that they were getting Russell Wilson vibes about his career going forward.

I would be surprised if Hurts demanded $60 million. He seems the type who is more concerned with winning rather than getting paid the max especially as he's currently earning well.

I think he would want a similar contract around the $50 million mark which is fair for a Superbowl MVP.

I don't get Russell Wilson vibes in any way unless he has a long term underlying injury limiting his mobility and rushing.

Hurts had 33 total touchdowns and 6 interceptions in what was apparently a disastrous season for him...that's a career best season for a lot of other quarterbacks!

 

[Swagger]

Shane Steichen was the Oc on Philly for 2 years. So he got that wrong. The last time Hurts had continuity with his offensive syatem and OC Steichen he was an MVP candidate.

Dan Ovorloskys take is the best take IMO. The facts do not add up to the opinions.

Also whoever wrote this missed another gem in the ESPN article. Which is Hurts thrives when he has something to prove and is coached hard. They said Stiechen and Kellen Moore where both direct and matter of fact in their coaching. The guys that got fired? Not so much and wanted to be buddy buddy.

All-in-all this is a lot of hoopola over a guy many don't think is a top 10 qb in the NFL and a JAG.

I know one thing, over on the Steelers boards and socials they are PRAYING the Eagles trade them Jalen Hurts, or that he ends up as their starting qb if the Eagles decide to move on.

I also don't understand why people keep talking about him getting an extension. He's going into year 3 of a 5 year contract. Jeffrey Lurie NEVER extends a guy in the middle of a contract.

Agree.

People also fail to mention that Barkley only averaged 4.1 yards a carry last season when he averaged a whopping 5.8 yards a carry during the Superbowl winning season. A further indication of how much the offensive line underperformed and perhaps play calling as well.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I would be surprised if Hurts demanded $60 million.

With what he has accomplished, I don't see any way his agent will allow him to sign a deal less than what Dak is making. Hell, there's already talk that Caleb Williams is expecting $62M from the Bears.

 

[StarOfGlory]

Agree.

People also fail to mention that Barkley only averaged 4.1 yards a carry last season when he averaged a whopping 5.8 yards a carry during the Superbowl winning season. A further indication of how much the offensive line underperformed and perhaps play calling as well.

That o-line was playing injured the first half of the season. I couldn't believe Jurgens started the season after back surgery, and Dickerson has knee surgery the week before the opener and they put him in. Makes me wonder what these guys were shooting up the first month or two of the season. This is the type of crap the NFLPA should be cracking down on.

 

[TheRunningMan]

Agree.

People also fail to mention that Barkley only averaged 4.1 yards a carry last season when he averaged a whopping 5.8 yards a carry during the Superbowl winning season. A further indication of how much the offensive line underperformed and perhaps play calling as well.

Facts ir cracks me up when people try and say the Eagles offensive line was "elite" last year. Land Johnson missed half the year and the oline was NOT elite at all.

 

[Swagger]

With what he has accomplished, I don't see any way his agent will allow him to sign a deal less than what Dak is making. Hell, there's already talk that Caleb Williams is expecting $62M from the Bears.

I would say it depends on which teams are interested in Hurts. If he joined a team with genuine Superbowl aspirations then I think he would look for somewhere between $50-55 million. Josh Allen already took $55 million a year on his second contract after Dak got $60 million. That's on Hurts and Allen second contracts as well.

Caleb well his next contract is his first big contract following his rookie deal. He played very well at the backend of last season and a lot of people consider him to have MVP credentials over the coming years. Given his age and that he's about to enter what's likely to be his prime years then he will surely get a huge deal especially with the continued increase in the salary cap.

Just funny that 18 months after Dak signed for $60 million a season and people being adamant it was simply market rate and others like Allen would immediately be paid more in line with the increased salary cap...yet it hasn't happened yet.

 

[khiladi]

Some notes from @JFowlerESPN’s article on Jalen Hurts:

- pushed back on changes that would diversify the scheme,

- wanted to avoid playing under center

- reluctant to let it rip at times, particularly against zone coverage

- poor body language, not always bought in

- not the most coachable and the players notice

- diverts from the game plan and changes playcalls to an excessive degree

Their OC literally had zero years of experience calling plays as an OC and is now in Miami as a passing game coordinator

 

[TheRunningMan]

Their OC literally had zero years of experience calling plays as an OC and is now in Miami as a passing game coordinator

For some reason the Eagles and anything surrounding the Eagles is just top teir clicks and entertainment. I did see a poll that said the Eagles are the most searched and popular team in the NFL according to metrics for the last 3 years. And Philadelphia is a top 5 media market.

But every damn day they are talking about some aspect of the Eagles. They've let the "tush push" go after talking about that for the last 3 years. Then it was the coach, the coaching staff, the gm, the wr, the qb, who Cooper Dejean is dating, etc.

Jerry gotta be SICK