The Elite QB Farce

[Doomsday101]

Overpaying the QB position hurts more then anything IMO.

Rodgers is highly paid so maybe he can buck the trend of highly paid QB's winning a championship but he is an actual elite QB.

I think what QB make is outrageous but it is the NFL and that is what it is. As QB he is given too much credit for any success and too much blame for failure, but this is how it is around the NFL. Dak will get his contract regardless of how fans feel about it. In terms of talent I'm sorry I think the kid has the talent to lead this team. Others claiming he lacks talent that is their view but not one person in here would I call and expert on QB. Dak has shown improvement in his play and I find it interesting the very stats people threw out early in his career now claim those stats mean nothing now that his numbers are ranking with some of the top QB. McCarthy will bring in his system and build around Dak and I guess we will all find out if Dak and McCarthy can get Dallas back to a SB

 

[jterrell]

I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.

If you think all the QBs listed are superior to Dak you have been drinking too much.

Watson is below Dak, possibly far below. His inability to get rid of the football kills Houston.
A new offensive staff may help him.

Brady isn't elite at this point. His season wasn't even good. But he was arguably the most clutch QB ever and he earned that title and all GOAT Accolades that come with winning the biggest of games.
Dak will never catch Brady.

Brees has been a very good QB for a long long time but he is very system driven and has one title to his name.
Dak could easily catch Brees.

The largest reason Mike McCarthy took this job and blew off others is QB. He has a winning hand with Dak.
Dak just led the league in passing yards while he had no TE, had a lead WR injured and playing poorly and his receiving corps led the league in drops.
Exactly zero other QBs can say they accomplished that.

Dak is elite. He elevated to that status this year.
He just equaled the best season of Tony Romo's career.
It's time to stop pretending he isn't elite.

Since 2005 when Romo took over DAL has finished below .500 twice in 15 years. The 2 seasons someone other than Romo or Dak was the leading passer.
Having elite QB play does matter and DAL has been spoiled by having it.

 

[Swagger]

I don't know if this has already been written as it's such a long threat I haven't fully checked but from the quarterbacks that have won the Superbowl over the past decade...they all PLAYED to an elite level at some point or throughout the post season to help their team win the Superbowl with the exception of Peyton Manning who was carried by his defense. Even in that case, Peyton will have helped the offense in terms of reading defensive coverages and knowing when to change the play to a run at the line of scrimmage etc.

Joe Flacco post season for the Ravens in 2012: 11 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 117.2.
Matt Ryan post season for the Falcons in 2016: 9 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 135.3 (would have won superbowl with regulation coaching, i.e. run the ball 3rd and 4th quarter = win)
Nick Foles post season for the Eagles in 2017: 6 TDs 1 INTs with a QBR of 115.7

Those are elite numbers.

So over the past ten years only 1/10 did a quarterback not have to play at an elite level for the team to win the Superbowl and ironically that was Peyton Manning!

Dak Prescott in the postseason. 5 TDs, 2 INTs with a QBR of 95.7
Tony Romo in the postseason: 8 TDs, 2 INTs and I couldn't find his QBR (I don't use ESPN QBR as it's just ridiculous - Fitzmagic #8 and Rodgers #21 come on man).

So whether people like or dislike Prescott, he needs to play better in the post season if we are to win a Superbowl or we move on from him. Tony's numbers were decent yet they weren't even good enough for us to reach an NFC Championship game.

 

[jterrell]

Something I've pointed out before is that those kind of "elite" QBs aren't as available to just go get as people seem to think. If they were, why would it take 20 years of drafts to fill out what is a very short list? Brady was drafted 20 years ago, Brees, 19 years ago, Rodgers 15 years ago … Even Wilson, who is one of the younger QBs on the list, is going into his 10th season. That's the bulk of the short list of elites, so obviously just going out and getting one isn't something a team can simply decide to make happen. And, realistically, the reason QB salaries have skyrocketed so much is because there aren't even enough top QB's, much less elite ones.

By the way, I don't think Jackson and Watson have quite earned their way into elite status yet. They are the next ones just on the outside and ready to come in, but in my mind they aren't quite there. In my mind Mahomes is the only youngster that has earned his way in

You made a great point about Elway. Another point to consider is that Flacco, Dilfer, Foles, and Brad Johnson have won Super Bowls, none of whom can be called elite.

5 years into Wilson's career they were talking about him like h was an up and comer occasionally playing over his head.
SEA was winning with high paid defensive stars.

People are just idiotic and don't realize once the games start it matters jack squat where you were drafted.
People literally thought NE was winning in spite of Brady the first couple titles... all because he had been a late draft pick.

Non-elites record proves out over time. Any team can catch lightning in a bottle. It looked like that might be BALT this year and the worm has turned and perhaps it is actually TENN.
But elite QBs help you win EVERY year.
They keep you in the playoff hunt with dregs and injuries and bad coaching.
They don't direct 4-5 win seasons.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

This is the fault of ESPN and Sports Center. Everyone sees all the highlights and they just assume that QB's can be purchased easily with a coupon at Walmart. I am hard on Dak but he can get it done. He is enough to get this team to the big dance. He is just going to need some help around him to do that. That includes coaching...which we might just have now. It's the same group that jumps on Heath. Can we have a better safety? Sure, but we have other needs as well and we can't have a "92 rated" player in every position. I'd rather see Jeff Heath at Safety than Jaylon Smith at LB at this point.

You make some good points but I disagree with your statement about rather seeing Heath than Jaylon Smith. I don't take this season as what players can or can't do that much but even with Heath I have said a few years ago he needs to be a player coming in as a backup guy. I feel like that's when he makes his best plays. Just my opinion though

 

[jterrell]

I don't know if this has already been written as it's such a long threat I haven't fully checked but from the quarterbacks that have won the Superbowl over the past decade...they all PLAYED to an elite level at some point or throughout the post season to help their team win the Superbowl with the exception of Peyton Manning who was carried by his defense. Even in that case, Peyton will have helped the offense in terms of reading defensive coverages and knowing when to change the play to a run at the line of scrimmage etc.

Joe Flacco post season for the Ravens in 2012: 11 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 117.2.
Matt Ryan post season for the Falcons in 2016: 9 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 135.3 (would have won superbowl with regulation coaching, i.e. run the ball 3rd and 4th quarter = win)
Nick Foles post season for the Eagles in 2017: 6 TDs 1 INTs with a QBR of 115.7

Those are elite numbers.

So over the past ten years only 1/10 did a quarterback not have to play at an elite level for the team to win the Superbowl and ironically that was Peyton Manning!

Dak Prescott in the postseason. 5 TDs, 2 INTs with a QBR of 95.7
Tony Romo in the postseason: 8 TDs, 2 INTs and I couldn't find his QBR (I don't use ESPN QBR as it's just ridiculous - Fitzmagic #8 and Rodgers #21 come on man).

So whether people like or dislike Prescott, he needs to play better in the post season if we are to win a Superbowl or we move on from him. Tony's numbers were decent yet they weren't even good enough for us to reach an NFC Championship game.

Dak is at a 97 for career passer rating.
That is 4th among active players and 5th ALL-TIME. (Behind only Rodgers/Wilson/Brees and TIED with Tom Brady) --among retirees only Romo with .1 higher is higher.
His playoff QBR (earned at 23 and 25 years old) is equivalent to that and again shows his overall consistency.

What your research showed was outlier QBs who got hot and lucky for a small stretch and that is totally accurate.
If you don't have an elite QB you better figure out how to make him one for that short period when it matters.

 

[Swagger]

Interesting looking at Brady's stats. The Patriots defense really won the Superbowls in '01 and '03. Obviously the Ravens won it with Trent and an amazing defense during a similar period. But the trend has generally gone towards a quarterback being able to get it done in the post season perhaps due to the rule changes. The '14 and '16 wins Brady was integral to those, especially 14 I thought was his best Superbowl performance against a quality Seahawks defense. Last year was all about the Patriots defense but Brady still made one clutch, big throw (eventually haha).

All joking aside though, given the quarterbacks now coming through - Mahome boy, Jackson, Watson plus the younger guys I think it places more importance on the QB being able to get it done in the play offs.

 

[Swagger]

Dak is at a 97 for career passer rating.
That is 4th among active players and 5th ALL-TIME. (Behind only Rodgers/Wilson/Brees and TIED with Tom Brady) --among retirees only Romo with .1 higher is higher.
His playoff QBR (earned at 23 and 25 years old) is equivalent to that and again shows his overall consistency.

What your research showed was outlier QBs who got hot and lucky for a small stretch and that is totally accurate.
If you don't have an elite QB you better figure out how to make him one for that short period when it matters.

The question is can Prescott do a Flacco/Foles...

I forgot how impressive Matt Ryan was during his post season stats in 2016 - I still can't believe they blew it!

 

[Swagger]

I know Sunday will be about Henry for the Titans but i'm interested how Tannehill will play as he will be asked to make some key throws - can he continue his strong form?

 

[jterrell]

The question is can Prescott do a Flacco/Foles...

I forgot how impressive Matt Ryan was during his post season stats in 2016 - I still can't believe they blew it!

Can he? Sure. He's far better than many who have done it.
Will he? That's a whole 'nother question.

If you are trying to make him MORE successful you sure better get him a TE.
He excelled with Witten as a rookie.

But again he had top 5 QB play this year easily. Dak was not your problem. He outperformed every personnel group on the team.

 

[Swagger]

Can he? Sure. He's far better than many who have done it.
Will he? That's a whole 'nother question.

If you are trying to make him MORE successful you sure better get him a TE.
He excelled with Witten as a rookie.

But again he had top 5 QB play this year easily. Dak was not your problem. He outperformed every personnel group on the team.

I would agree that Prescott is a better regular season QB than both Flacco and Foles so on the face of it there's no reason why he couldn't do it in the post season.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.

Agree, both Romo and Danny White were darn good QB's but didn't win any Super Bowls.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't know if this has already been written as it's such a long threat I haven't fully checked but from the quarterbacks that have won the Superbowl over the past decade...they all PLAYED to an elite level at some point or throughout the post season to help their team win the Superbowl with the exception of Peyton Manning who was carried by his defense. Even in that case, Peyton will have helped the offense in terms of reading defensive coverages and knowing when to change the play to a run at the line of scrimmage etc.

Joe Flacco post season for the Ravens in 2012: 11 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 117.2.
Matt Ryan post season for the Falcons in 2016: 9 TDs, 0 INT with a QBR of 135.3 (would have won superbowl with regulation coaching, i.e. run the ball 3rd and 4th quarter = win)
Nick Foles post season for the Eagles in 2017: 6 TDs 1 INTs with a QBR of 115.7

Those are elite numbers.

So over the past ten years only 1/10 did a quarterback not have to play at an elite level for the team to win the Superbowl and ironically that was Peyton Manning!

Dak Prescott in the postseason. 5 TDs, 2 INTs with a QBR of 95.7
Tony Romo in the postseason: 8 TDs, 2 INTs and I couldn't find his QBR (I don't use ESPN QBR as it's just ridiculous - Fitzmagic #8 and Rodgers #21 come on man).

So whether people like or dislike Prescott, he needs to play better in the post season if we are to win a Superbowl or we move on from him. Tony's numbers were decent yet they weren't even good enough for us to reach an NFC Championship game.

I would not even call Dak elite as for the QB you put up those were lightening in a bottle season. Flacco had a great year and the Ravens won the SB along with one of the top defenses in the league and did little after than 1 season. Matt Ryan has had his ups and down and Foles a career backup who again had a magic season. None I would even put in the class of elite.

 

[DogFace]

Some of you guys flip flop so much it's funny. Y'all use to complain that Dak didn't have stats and he was just a bus driver. Y'all said you just wanted a QB to throw 4000 plus yards and 30 TDs but when Dak had almost 5000 yards and 30 TDs now y'all want a bus driver. Can y'all admit you don't have a clue what you want because you just dislike Dak and no matter what he does y'all will want the opposite.

You can't have a dominate run game and clock eating offense but then also want a 5000 yard 30 plus TD QB at the same time. Fantasy football has made you guys silly

I haven’t read through this, but i doubt many respond to your post even though it clearly applies to many that read it.

Being wrong continually doesn’t seem to bother people anymore because they just change their argument and lie. They lie to themselves.

Seems strange to me, but that’s where we are and having the internet courage (which requires only minimal real courage) to admit you were wrong or at the very least address posts like yours is something that brings about feelings they aren’t capable of dealing with.

 

[foofighters]

You make some good points but I disagree with your statement about rather seeing Heath than Jaylon Smith. I don't take this season as what players can or can't do that much but even with Heath I have said a few years ago he needs to be a player coming in as a backup guy. I feel like that's when he makes his best plays. Just my opinion though

You and I both agree. You are missing my point. I was speaking terms of heart or give or whatever you want to call it. Heath give his all even though it's not enough at times, you know he's giving everything and more. Can we say the same about Jaylon? Because Jaylon might be as well, but the perception may show differently. That's all I was really saying.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template

That's what I've been saying for a while now, and I've also been roundly ridiculed for saying that the Cowboys' plan (apparently) is to win SBs based on a ground game and strong defense, with Dak being little better than he is now could win titles. But it's been like "No, you HAVE to have the elite quarterback who throws for 50 tds and 5,000 yards and 'carries the team on his back' or you'll never win the SB"

Well who's the last 4 teams in the playoffs? Tannehill has thrown for 160 yards in two games, Garrapolo threw for 131 in his one game, Rodgers for 243 in one game. Only Mahomes threw for over 300 yards. Meanwhile 4 of the top 8 rushers are in the final games.

Now I do think the Chiefs will eventually win it all, and will do it with Mahomes throwing for a lot of yards. But they have Reid, a long time, top coach, who's not to say the Chiefs are able to throw for a bunch of yards and tds mostly because of his coaching expertise, and that even a Dak could throw for as many yards and tds, were he to be Reid's quarterback?

Point is the NFL isn't a static league, just because we've seen the proliferation of 5,000 yard and 45 or more td passing quarterbacks lately doesn't mean the league's defensive "gurus" won't figure out how to slow them down, or that having a top rushing game won't again be how you win SBs.

So the Cowboys may have just been a bit ahead of the curve in setting up a team to win SBs the "new" way, just with Garrett, etc. they just didn't cross the t's and dot the i's well enough, but McCarthy and his coaches can do that.

We'll see....

 

[CowboyRoy]

I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.

Focus on defense and the rest of the team, and then plop in the best QB you can find.

Wilson was a perfect example his first couple years. SF is another example. Tannehil ironically is another example. Defense would be my #1 constant and will give you the ability to stay in every game and win plenty.

Dak is NOT elite and I agree not sure he will ever get there. But with a real HC and offense he has a chance. But he has to work on his pocket movement.

But like you said, you don't need elite.

 

[blueblood70]

False, you fools flip flop more than changing socks when it comes to Dak.

um TRUE FACTS his games against GB,NE, CHI, Buff, Rams, Philly 2nd game, 2nd half(worst game of his career) all very poor showings.. dude was so off target and throwing up ducks and prayers it was sad for a starting QB and we needed ONE Game in that stretch to win the division.

he did not get it done. remove the padded stats from the easier part of the schedule and Dak was Case Keenum.. facts are in the numbers ..who knows why by 2 -3 game losing streaks doesnt happen with a QB being on his game.. he let many close games become losses instead of wins..

I realize its not all his fault but he was bad in those last 4 games leading up to Washington.. we lost all games trialing at the half some less then one scores difference, he didnt take this team one time and will it to a win this season.. he regressed, its as simply as that, its not an opinion nor is it hate, eyes dont lie..

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I haven’t read through this, but i doubt many respond to your post even though it clearly applies to many that read it.

Being wrong continually doesn’t seem to bother people anymore because they just change their argument and lie. They lie to themselves.

Seems strange to me, but that’s where we are and having the internet courage (which requires only minimal real courage) to admit you were wrong or at the very least address posts like yours is something that brings about feelings they aren’t capable of dealing with.

You are completely right and I agree with you. Thanks for the kind words

 

[BoysForLife]

That’s the market price though. Who are we to demand he ask for less?

That's the market price for elite

Imo, Dak's not elite.
Therein lies the discrepancy