The Escobar Pick: Revisting the Cowboys Draft Board

Super_Kazuya

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But it's water under the bridge, plus it assumes the Cowboy board was accurate.

This. Unless the Cowboys were using a guide found in the supermarket newsstand, they made their own board. I like how to some people, they are too incompetent to follow their own board, and yet the board that same incompetence created is supposedly genius.
 

Deep_South

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If Escobar can get into the end zone this season and get up in the air and catch the ball like he did last night (hopefully coming down with both feet in bounds), he's going to be a very popular 2nd round pick.
 

junk

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I think the Cowboys have difficulty drafting certain positions and, at least subconsciously, the scouting staff knows it. As a result, they artificially inflate positions that they are comfortable with. Those also probably correspond with positions that get on the field and contribute right away in certain packages. CB, WR, TE, LB in particular. As a result, they draft guys, those guys play and everyone high fives like it was a successful draft.

The problem is that isn't a great way to build a team.

What I can't figure out is why the team doesn't bring in scouts with a background in those areas that they are bad at scouting. OL for instance.
 

speedkilz88

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This. Unless the Cowboys were using a guide found in the supermarket newsstand, they made their own board. I like how to some people, they are too incompetent to follow their own board, and yet the board that same incompetence created is supposedly genius.

What some can't seem to comprehend is that the scouts make up the board. Coaches generally don't give their input until draft day. They use to allow coaches more power with the board during the Larry Lacewell days and that didn't work out well since on draft day the coaches still had input giving them more power than the scouts.
 

speedkilz88

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I think the Cowboys have difficulty drafting certain positions and, at least subconsciously, the scouting staff knows it. As a result, they artificially inflate positions that they are comfortable with. Those also probably correspond with positions that get on the field and contribute right away in certain packages. CB, WR, TE, LB in particular. As a result, they draft guys, those guys play and everyone high fives like it was a successful draft.

The problem is that isn't a great way to build a team.

What I can't figure out is why the team doesn't bring in scouts with a background in those areas that they are bad at scouting. OL for instance.

Teams pretty much all do it the same way and have their own strengths and weaknesses. There is no perfect system.
 

TheCount

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If we're sticking with the draft board, wouldn't Floyd have been the pick at #1? The fact that they broke the draft board in the first round also suggests they may not necessarily followed the script on the rest of the board.

Either way, this does a good job of showing where the Cowboys head was at - skill positions, not OL or DL. Luckily with Frederick on board, we at least got some OL help before going skill position crazy.
 

Hoofbite

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What some can't seem to comprehend is that the scouts make up the board. Coaches generally don't give their input until draft day. They use to allow coaches more power with the board during the Larry Lacewell days and that didn't work out well since on draft day the coaches still had input giving them more power than the scouts.

How is that not any different than what happened this year?

Scouts say a guy is #5 overall and they were overruled.
 

85Cowboy85

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I think the Cowboys have difficulty drafting certain positions and, at least subconsciously, the scouting staff knows it. As a result, they artificially inflate positions that they are comfortable with. Those also probably correspond with positions that get on the field and contribute right away in certain packages. CB, WR, TE, LB in particular. As a result, they draft guys, those guys play and everyone high fives like it was a successful draft.

The problem is that isn't a great way to build a team.

What I can't figure out is why the team doesn't bring in scouts with a background in those areas that they are bad at scouting. OL for instance.

For the record I agree with you the OL scouting has been questionable the past 5-7 years. Look no further then Brewster and Martin. I just think it's more of a systematic problem with scouting rather then the idea that the cowboys specifically avoiding drafting the position.

The purpose of this thread is really to get at the draft strategy aspect of the decision making. In other words people think we should have taken OL but how far are they willing to reach.
 

Hoofbite

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If we're sticking with the draft board, wouldn't Floyd have been the pick at #1? The fact that they broke the draft board in the first round also suggests they may not necessarily followed the script on the rest of the board.

Either way, this does a good job of showing where the Cowboys head was at - skill positions, not OL or DL. Luckily with Frederick on board, we at least got some OL help before going skill position crazy.

It's a weird thread for sure, IMO.

We validate the Escobar pick by using the Cowboys board that had Escobar as the 2nd best player available but at the same time we don't acknowledge that Escobar hasn't looked anything like a 2nd round pick.
 

Super_Kazuya

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What some can't seem to comprehend is that the scouts make up the board. Coaches generally don't give their input until draft day. They use to allow coaches more power with the board during the Larry Lacewell days and that didn't work out well since on draft day the coaches still had input giving them more power than the scouts.

The scouts are part of this organization. What have they done to distinguish themselves from the rest of this organization over these last couple of decades? There's nothing magical about these scouts. The Cowboys board is the Cowboys board, and it's comical that people are mad at them for not following it.
 

ThreeandOut

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No they aren't. Incorrect.

They had a 2nd round grade on Williams, they selected him in the 3rd. They had a 3rd round grade on Webb, they took him in the 4th. They had a 3rd round grade on Randle, they selected him in the 5th. Finally, they had a 5th round on Holloman, they took him in the 6th.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary that what I said is incorrect? I would like to hear it if you do.
 

Vintage

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It's a weird thread for sure, IMO.

We validate the Escobar pick by using the Cowboys board that had Escobar as the 2nd best player available but at the same time we don't acknowledge that Escobar hasn't looked anything like a 2nd round pick.

Huh?

So... he has looked like a second round pick, then, right?
 

ThreeandOut

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If we're sticking with the draft board, wouldn't Floyd have been the pick at #1? The fact that they broke the draft board in the first round also suggests they may not necessarily followed the script on the rest of the board.

Either way, this does a good job of showing where the Cowboys head was at - skill positions, not OL or DL. Luckily with Frederick on board, we at least got some OL help before going skill position crazy.

It only would have been a departure from their draft board if they had stayed at 18 and selected Frederick over Floyd. But Frederick was at the top of their board (if my memory is correct) where they selected him.
 

ThreeandOut

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I think the Cowboys have difficulty drafting certain positions and, at least subconsciously, the scouting staff knows it. As a result, they artificially inflate positions that they are comfortable with. Those also probably correspond with positions that get on the field and contribute right away in certain packages. CB, WR, TE, LB in particular. As a result, they draft guys, those guys play and everyone high fives like it was a successful draft.

The problem is that isn't a great way to build a team.

What I can't figure out is why the team doesn't bring in scouts with a background in those areas that they are bad at scouting. OL for instance.

I don't think they artificially inflate certain positions, but after the string of draft busts from 2003-9, I think they do grade OL much more strictly in recent years.
 

TheCount

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It only would have been a departure from their draft board if they had stayed at 18 and selected Frederick over Floyd. But Frederick was at the top of their board (if my memory is correct) where they selected him.

They traded away from a player that was Top 10 on their board, I think it's safe to say they don't feel like they have to follow the script line by line.
 

85Cowboy85

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It only would have been a departure from their draft board if they had stayed at 18 and selected Frederick over Floyd. But Frederick was at the top of their board (if my memory is correct) where they selected him.

You are correct. He was one slot above Terrance Williams.

Basically they followed a close to BPA type strategy. They also had an opportunity to draft Barkley as the BPA at 80 and took JJ Wilcox instead. So it wasn't "pure" BPA. It was a general BPA with a few exceptions for instance they didn't really want to draft a QB.

Edit: Also they really wanted an OL and didn't have the money to address it in FA. Thus the tradedown.
 

Fletch

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I know I know beating a dead horse. But I had a little free time on my hands and based on some of the discussion I thought it might be worth while to take a look.

Basically I went back through the draft and tried to recreate what the draft board would have looked like when the 47th pick came around. All the players with a first round grade were gone at this point. Assuming I didn't make any mistakes these are the players with a second round grade that were available:

+2 Terrance Williams, WR
0 Gavin Escobar, TE
-4 Ryan Nassib, QB
-5 Margus Hunt, DE
-7 Matt Barkley, QB
-12 Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB
-14 Eddie Lacy, RB

The number represents the number of spots below or above Escobar the player was. For instance Williams was the best player remaining on the board and two spots above Escobar.

The most interesting name on this list is DE Margus Hunt from SMU. He was selected six picks later by the Bengals at 53. Doing a small amount of research on him he has very very good measurables. Raw talent however so I would say he's a classic boom or bust type guy. Worth noting he is already 26 years old. Even if he does boom it might be a limited window for his career.

The thing about drafting for need is that if the player is not a year one starter the point is somewhat moot. That's because the team will have other drafts/Free agency within that time frame to address the need.

I think Hunt is a slight reach but I would find it acceptable if he were taken by the Cowboys at 47. For me I would be okay with either Hunt, Escobar, Williams and maybe Nassib. I tend to be a pure BPA guy so if I'm in Jerry's shoes I'm taking Williams. However as it turned out Williams was available at 73 so taking Escobar is actually the move which maximized the Cowboys potential value.

People have said they would have rather taken next best OL/DL instead of Escobar. The next best DT had a third round grade and that was Bennie Logan. Cowboys had him at number 51 on their board he ended up being selected with the 67th pick of the third round by the Eagles. Keep in mind Escobar was ranked 25th on the Cowboys board.

For the offensive line it gets worse. All remaining offensive lineman had a fourth round grade or lower. When Jerry said Frederick was the last of the Mohicans he wasn't kidding.

Next Available OL:

C: Khaled Holmes 70th player on Cowboys board
T: Dallas Thomas 78th player on Cowboys board
G: Brian Winters 89th player on Cowboys board

Basically if you had substituted Escobar for next best available DT or O-lineman you would have been reaching by at least one round. The scouts may end up being wrong on Escobar but I do not fault the draft strategy. What say you zoners? Do you favor the Escobar pick or do you think the Cowboys should have gone OL/DL?


I'm in favor. Witten is no spring chicken. We have Hanna and now we have Escobar. The Cowboys were wise to make sure we stay top-flight at the TE position. Yeah, I'm exaggerating some by using the adjective "top-flight" at this juncture, but nothing tells me that we won't be okay at the TE position with the athleticism and high ceiling both Hanna and Gavin command considering Witten will not be around forever.

Let's not forget that we scored T. Williams. Front office did a heckuva job in the this year's draft.
 
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